• Howdy! we're looking for donations to finish custom knowledgebase software for this forum. Please see our Funding drive thread

RMartin R10 running at 1800Watts through Nuvinci N360

ferro

100 µW
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
8
Location
Washington DC
So I have seen a few posts with a lot of questions regarding the R10 over the last year or so but few answers. So here are some answers. My house mate bought a r10 last February and has put about 2000 miles on it since then. Stock it is a nice bike, it works well has the ability to climb most hills and can achieve the advertised range ( if you ride it like a bicycle and pedal ). Today however the only stock electrical component left on the bike is the bottom bracket drive motor. The first modification made to the bike was replacing the derailleur with the Nuvinci N360 and honestly if you were to make only one modification to this bike this should be it. However if you plan on running it without a tensioner (like the Zocco Rossa versions stock setup) DO NOT DO IT And if you own such a Zocco Rossa buy a Surly Singleator A.S.A.P. The articulation of the swingarm puts too much side load on the N360 axle and it will not last. While it does nothing to improve raw performance the N360 makes the bike more enjoyable to use and does increase the gear range over the stock 7 speed derailleur. Howerer due to space restrictions you can only use a 16 to 22 tooth rear chailwheel (smaller or larger will not fit), so to really take advantage of it you must replace the front chain ring which is possible and reasonably simple. Any 130mm BCD standard chain ring will fit. You will however need a 3 jaw gear puller and some mechanical aptitude. (if you need help with this let me know) There are two keyed freewheel clutches inside the housing between the chainring and crank ( in one post I read someone waited 7 weeks for rmartin to replace this failed part, you can buy one for about $25 if you need to know where I can send you the link ) be carefull reinstalling these if you put pressure on the outer race it will fail.
The next modification was to increase power ( go figure...). So a 48v 10 Ah Headway pack was ordered, and a call to ebikes.ca was placed and a 48V 35 amp controller, cycle analyst, and new throttle were soon on their way. BTW if you are thinking about puchasing from Grin Tech, DO IT, excellent company to deal with. Installing the new controller is extremely simple as the phase wire and hall sensor wiring colors from the motor match up exactly with Grin's Infineon controller. Well the new setup REALLY woke the bike up as my coccyx can personally attest to. Word of advice get familiar with a e-bike before trying wheelies. Currently there are about 700 miles on the new setup, with no issues so far. Running a 54 tooth front chain ring and a 18 tooth rear the bike will achieve 30 MPH and go about 1.8 to 2.2 miles per Ah drawn (dependant on load, terrain, wind, etc.) without pedaling. Switching to a 22 tooth rear ring makes it unstoppable at our local single track park. The motor seems to have no trouble drawing 1800watts although it rarely draws more than 700 watts or so. I believe you could burn it up if you tried or were ignorant (1800 watts produces a lot of heat in that small space) but like I said it rarely draws more than 700 watts and adding a little pedal effort drops wattage draw immediately So far it seems to be able to take the peak draw for short bursts. This bicycle does not get babied (50 miles with two wrecks in the last 48 hours) and so far no issues. I feel it is a great e-bike. So now for the bad. The frame is CHEAP there is a lot of flex in the head tube, the motor mount offset is wrong and as a result one pedal is futher from the centerline than the other. On the other hand I expect more from a bicycle than the average person. If you plan on riding this thing on pavement it should last a long time. If you want to take it to the single track regularly you may see the same shortcomings. Future plans include rewinding the motor and going to a 72v setup. What did you expect? :twisted:
 
Interesting! so far this is the highest power I have heard of running through a n360, so conrats! I'm pushing 5kw into my n171 and its holding up great so far!
 
Interesting! so far this is the highest power I have heard of running through a n360, so conrats! I'm pushing 5kw into my n171 and its holding up great so far!

The shifter mechanism did fail once. Expected to have to buy a new one, told fallbrook exactly how it was being used and at what power level. They said they have had some shifter problems and sent out a whole new assembly with cables free of charge. exceeded my expectations
 
Yea Fallbrook is a great company! I lost one of my torque washers and they sent out a new set immediately free of charge. I've also called them multiple times with questions about the developer kit. They have always been extremely helpful and responsive. And for the CVP itself... this thing is truly a work of engineering art. I love it!
 
Well It seems my housemate outed me. Was waiting to get gopro before posting things that i have done. I have not run wires thru frame yet waiting on anderson crimp tool and connectors to do it right. However I do have some pics :p http://s1106.photobucket.com/albums/h361/GaiusMetellus/What%20I%20have%20done%20to%20the%20R%20Martin%20R10%20E%20bike/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20
 
And before I forget. Thank you Endless-sphere Members. Your Knowledge and debate's on tech are Priceless. Again Thank You :D
 
ferro said:
Howerer due to space restrictions you can only use a 16 to 22 tooth rear chailwheel (smaller or larger will not fit), so to really take advantage of it you must replace the front chain ring which is possible and reasonably simple. Any 130mm BCD standard chain ring will fit. You will however need a 3 jaw gear puller and some mechanical aptitude. (if you need help with this let me know) There are two keyed freewheel clutches inside the housing between the chainring and crank ( in one post I read someone waited 7 weeks for rmartin to replace this failed part, you can buy one for about $25 if you need to know where I can send you the link ) be carefull reinstalling these if you put pressure on the outer race it will fail.
Impressive. Would be great to see a description of how you did those things, any pics and sources for the parts for future ref as it seems the freewheel may be a weak spot. Appreciate your efforts in supplying the info.
When you were talking about the '16-22 teeth rear chainwheel' were you referring to the duVinci hub gear or to the normal derailleur wheel gears? I'm a bit ignorant regarding the mechanics of bikes but presumably putting gears with more teeth on front or rear would improve climbing with the derailleur too?
 
Sorry for the delay in answering. what was meant in refering to rear "chainring" was incorrect. When i purchased my N360 it came with a 22 toth cog, I also got the 16t, 20t, and 22t cogs. This way it only takes a moment to change gear range, 22t for hilly conditions 16t for street riding. Only takes a couple minutes to remove wheel and shifter assembly to change the cog.

On a side note gonna have to fix the rear rack, square tube frame with screw holes in it is not strong enough for holding 15ah headway pack for hard riding.
So now to open my pack and work on mounting it too the frame [was the plan already]
 
Thanks Centurion.
Just wondered where you got the freewheels from? Got a link? Looks like that is a weak spot on this bike and a whole new gear reducer is a lot of cash.
Cheers
 
Hera ya go here is the link to where i got the cogs http://aebike.com/parts-accessories-catalog-qc30/?action=list&category=706&type=T&searchtype=attributesearch&searchDropDown146=Shimano+1&searchDropDown71=&searchDropDown96=&gobutnsearch=Search
 
Oops misread here is the link for the bearing i replaced, havent taken calipers to bearint set closest to the motor this is for the outer bearing http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=bearings&Product_Code=Kit10971&Category_Code=One-Way-Bearings Haven't been able to find one anywhere seems this part is unique would like to find a stronger version
 
Not sure about the inner bearing yet but i will be replacing both soon as my last bodytoasphalt contact has created some new noise out of my cranks.
(no Injurys from that crash) :lol:









"Any Landing You Walk Away From Was A Good Landing" Somthing i learned in Jump School. :D
 
Seems I will have that info sooner than i thought. Just tried to go on my second ride of the day. The inner freewheel has failed. :cry: Will have pictures and data soon
 
Ouch! Do you think it was the crash or could it be too much power through the reducer? Are the bearings made of Alu?
Maybe 'R Martin' couild point you to a source for the bearing? - they appear to not be stocking Catic bikes anymore but have dealt with these probs for some while...
 
Great thread, well done! Was wondering how much power that motor could accept. I have two 36v batteries and would like to try the bike at 72v, but am very wary of doing so as 48v is the max Ive heard of. If it can run at 1800watts then thats 25amps at 72v. I would be quite content restricted to 15amps at that voltage which is 1080watts. I know that cable is rated for amps but how critical is the voltage margin?
The other thing is why are RMartin not stocking the crank drives anymore? The bikes have been selling well in US for at least 3years and in the UK for two.I have had the bike 6 months and had one transmission replaced. Is the transmission beginning to fail on a mass scale????
 
I have had the bike 6 months and had one transmission replaced. Is the transmission beginning to fail on a mass scale????
I have spoken to Randal at Rmartin USA and while he wasn't extremely clear as to what the problems were he did state the reason for no longer carrying the mid-drive bike was too many warranty issues. I believe the gearbox is the problem.
Also the bike is now being sold under the evelo name in the us. When I called them to see if I can puchase an extra motor/gearbox, I was informed that while they have a supply in stock and on the shelf, they could NOT sell me one because they are reserved for warranty issues. Hmmn... I wonder if they know something we dont....
Here is a couple of theories of mine:
1. What is failing? The pinion gear is attached to the motor by a shear pin, it will fail, but can be replaced and/or upgraded for about $2.- I recommend not upgrading it (better to shear a pin than a gear)
2. I have seen a freewheel clutch fail but it was definitely due to improper installation.
3. I believe the freewheel clutches as well as the bearing on the crank shaft can be damaged whenever the bike is layed down. the "equivalent of the bottom bracket" bearing/shaft setup is not as strong as a normal bike and the cranks cannot take a huge sideload.
4. The grease they use in the gearbox cannot handle the heat generated by the motor. When dissasmbling the unit I found the grease on the motor side of the gearbox was burnt up and no longer grease. I recommend replacing it with a high-temp automotive cv grease.
 
Good ideas ferro.
I think I'm gonna get some Redline CV grease and put it in there. I read somewhere else here about R Martin telling someone the gear reducer needed lubeing from time to time.
So you haven't managed to find a replacement for the inner bearing yet - R Martin didn't tell?
Any chance of some disassembly walk thro' pics when you next do that?
Cheers
 
Thanks Greg. Useful stuff. Sounds like hard work!
You don't happen to have a dis-assembly of the reducer walkthrough with pics do you?!
Also I note that all the freewheels etc are 4-bolt. I have a 5-bolt chainwheel - is that different to yours then or are the 'internals' 4-bolt?
 
Hey Alban,
I think all the chainwheels are 5 bolt. The freewheel is 4 bolt and is removed by inserting and tightening two long thin bolts which will release the freewheel from the unit. Having said that Powerpedals uk sent me a 5 bolt freewheel so mebe some units out there are different.
 
Cheers gorach. Good old Phil at Powerpedals - he's been really helpful to me. I'm embarrassed to ask him anything else as I didn't even get my bike from him!
So to lube things I'm going to have to remove the chainwheel or can I get to everything from the other side? Will I need a 'bottom bracket tool' or is that all replaced by the mechanism? Just want to be prepared before diving in... Got any pics? - I am mechanically challenged!
 
Correction alban, my freewheel was 5 bolt I think.
What exactly is the prob with your gearbox or you jus wanna grease it?
Hope the photos in this link work ok. It is as far as I got anyway, after that it gets complicated. You need a pedal extractor tool and circlip pliers, there being no bottom bracket as such. Sorry cant attach these pics directly.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OKmRieaWmDEPJycU5szSW3B7SyMx6_yLPnMnCIJ3-fM?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NagZSSwkfI1ea4RQpw_zg3B7SyMx6_yLPnMnCIJ3-fM?feat=directlink
 
Hi gorach. Thanks for the pics. Yes just want to grease it at present to try to prevent probs. It seems that it's a common thing for the freewheels to get damaged so want to be able to DIY it if need be, as not under warranty.
 
Back
Top