Safe's Electric Bike Project #001

[docnjoj]

I too am glad to hear U are OK, Safe! I might have had my cell phone on 911 ASAP just to report the lug! As far as tubes go, I used the old tried and true PvC pipe for 60 Nicads. My Trike looked like a WWII rocket launcher, but it ran OK! I still use the 12 volt tubes for power tools. It is time honored and successful means of connecting batts! I used some yucky black conductive paste, and also got cell end compression when I tightened down the end screws! But they still keep on tickin 4 years after the build! I still have a photo on PA group!
otherDoc

 

[safe]

I haven't found just the right tubing for my D cell nicads

Yeah, D cells would be a problem. I investigated that and you have to go up to something rather large like 1.25" tubing and that's so thick and heavy and expensive that it hardly seems worth it. SubC's fit nicely in the 0.75" thin tubes.

You might want to go outside of the PVC world and look for something else that fits better.

 

[safe]

But they still keep on tickin 4 years after the build!

Good to hear that there is a proven successful track record to Solderless Tubes already.

About the "burp"...

I have found that after my long rides with the SLA/NiCad pair that since the NiCads never get anywhere close to their maximum "C" rate that at the end the cells are completely cold. Today I got the bike fixed (will talk more later) and went about dumping the NiCad's charge in isolation from the SLA's and they heat up a lot when I do that. When I connected them to the chargers all four went for 1.5 hours and then terminated within three minutes of each other. Seems that the "burp" happens when the batteries are cold. My guess is that some initial warming happens when you get the charger going and then it eases slightly and an overly sensitive charger thinks that's a delta v signal by mistake.

Anyway... NiCad's just seem to like to be "ridden hard and put to bed wet". :lol:

 

[safe]

Crash Analysis and Recovery

Crashing (whether forced by external circumstances or of your own error) is inevitable on any performance oriented road racer electric bike. Safety gear like full leathers and a helmet can cover most everything, but some things need to be built into the design of the bike so as to reduce the chances of injury.

I knew in advance that my clipon's had insufficient end extension. The reason that the clipon's extend so far out from the road racer motorcycles is the exact reason that I smashed my pinky finger into something. The extended part of the clipon is supposed to absorb the first impact and in this way your knuckles are not hitting first. My knuckle of my left hand hurts more now than the pinky itself, though it was the pinky that hurt the most at first.

Anyway...

My current clipon's are "unsafe" and my other projects have already been upgraded to the correct design. I think that I'll upgrade Project #001 at the same time that I add a front fairing. Also, clipon's need to be able to "slip" on a crash so that they don't bend or break. Had I used the correct clipon design there would be nothing bent or broken and my hand would have been okay.

I spent the day replacing the rear rim and fixing a broken spoke on the front and truing it up, then I simply bent the handlebar back for now... "good enough" until I do an upgrade. The bike is again operation, though my hand might need a few more days.

Fiberglass Progress:

The front fairing female mold (sequence: male mold, female mold, final product) has been done and I've got another day of careful preparation (sanding, reinforcing, etc) before I move into the actual first real final product. August is going to be my fiberglass month.

 

[AussieJester]

You might want to go outside of the PVC world and look for something else that fits better.[/color]

Flurecent light covers would fit a D cell size i believe, Used widely in the water rocket community, very strong and light material

Also good to hear your still with us safe, FYI broken/amputated pinky fingers are part and parcel of road racing, alpine star even produced a glove some years ago that contained webbing to link the pinky finger to the ring finger to help prevent the pinky finger from grabbing and being rolled/broken/ripped off in a crash. A little more useless trivia i guess LoL.. Hope you wont be 'incapacitated' to long safe, look forward to seeing more updates mate...

 

[safe]

Yes, it's definitely true that hand problems are common with road racers because the first thing that hits the ground in a fall is your knees and your hands. (and elbows) The error in design of my clipons was something that seemed "okay" two years ago when I was in such a mad rush to get "anything" working, but now that I'm into the "refinement" phase of this project and others it's no longer acceptable.

The three big advances I'm looking to add for the clipons are:

1. Extend the ends of the bars so that in a crash the ends hit first not the knuckles of my hand.

2. Change the design so that the clipons rotate in a crash. Part of the problem with what happened is that the bars were rigidly attached to the front wheel, so when I hit something it placed the full force of impact onto my knuckle.

3. On both my other projects I've already upgraded to rubber mounted clipon's. This doesn't improve crash safety, but it will make for a softer ride. And that's nice.

If you are "safe" you need to think about "safety". :wink:

The swelling of the knuckle is going down, but it still is stiff and has a dull ache to it. It would be a tough profession to have to make your living racing with a sore hand. Even a minor crash in practice before a race would make things so uncomfortable as to make the race nearly impossible. Road racing would make for a tough job. (but it's better than crab fishing in Alaska I suppose :| )

 

[safe]

Found A New Hill

I tried riding today on a new road and it's a good candidate for speed testing. On the second attempt I equaled my old 55 mph record. The knuckles are sore on my left hand, but the inside isn't bad and I can actually grip pretty well without any pain. Doing the opposite and trying to extend the pinky finger is painful. So riding is no problem. I managed 18 miles without any real effort.

So I'm back running again.

Thanks for all the "well wishing".

As the saying goes:

"If you fall off your horse the best thing to do is get right back on and keep riding."

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Tell it to Chris Reeve.

oh, wait.
u can't.

Then there's the old saying 'that which doesn't kill u only makes u stronger'.
when in actual fact that which doesn't kill u only leaves u weak & helpless.

as far as old sayings go, aphorisms don't match up with reality.
Which makes sense why u ascribe to them.

 

[Link]

Then there's the old saying 'that which doesn't kill u only makes u stronger'.
when in actual fact that which doesn't kill u only leaves u weak & helpless.

Of course, that which does kill me leaves open the possibility that I will return more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

 

[TylerDurden]

Of course, that which does kill me leaves open the possibility that I will return more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Seems to be the case for TB...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDR-TB

 

[recumpence]

Of course, that which does kill me leaves open the possibility that I will return more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Seems to be the case for TB...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDR-TB

So, who is that X-Ray from?

Matt

 

[docnjoj]

Hey TD! I figure U are talking about the bugs! We really owe the Russians for this disease, as in 1989 when they ran out of money, they started giving their TB victims 1/3 doses of INH and Rifhampin! Well Duh! Surprise! They started their own resistant strain which spread all over the world! Welcome to Superbugs and , um.......... Dont inhale!
otherDoc

 

[safe]

Risk and Safety

I think the thing to do is to be honest about crash analysis and do your best to improve safety in order to reduce the risk of injury. The leathers worked great... I did not get a scratch even though I landed in nasty weeds at 30 mph. The helmet somehow managed to not even get a scratch even though I did roll forward into the weeds when the bike stopped. The only poorly designed element was the fact that the clipons were rigid and lacked the end extenders and so my left pinky finger paid the price.

So I think you do gain from crash analysis. It's as important a science as the design of the bike itself.

Look at how much safer auto racing is these days compared to years ago. People are hitting the walls at amazingly high speeds and they get out and walk away unhurt. The higher the level of risk that you take means that you need to equal that risk with counterbalancing safety measures.

My name is "safe" and I believe in it...

Hopefully this crash analysis talk will make other people realize that buying that helmet and gloves and maybe even leathers is a smart idea rather then risk these higher speeds without them. One of these days one of the poor handling, overpowered, and overvolted machines is going to crash with a rider that has no protection whatsoever. That's going to be really scary. (imagine the road rash or worse)

 

[vanilla ice]

But I'd almost rather have an accident at 130mph on a racetrack than 30 in an uncontrolled environment like any given road. Nice cushy soft barriers and trained pros vs. rows of poles and angry inattentive schmucks..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4oSZIm3YAw
Energy absorbing walls saved his skin!

 

[AussieJester]

But I'd almost rather have an accident at 130mph on a racetrack than 30 in an uncontrolled environment like any given road.

+1

Without question. Even if i could still ride motorcycles today i wouldnt be on the road doing it, back on the race track without hesitation

 

[safe]

Racetrack Is Controlled Risk

Would I prefer to race on a track? Definitely.

The Isle of Man will be holding the first true electric motorcycle road race next year and my "new genre" of super small motor (750 watt) electric bicycle road racer isn't even fully invented yet. It's going to take time. (the Isle of Man is actually a very unsafe track by modern standards)

Maybe one day there will be a junior road racing class for kids that are from 14-18 years old where the speeds are limited by the motors and the tracks are safe. It would be a little like BMX in that there's a limit to the risk. Of course, like with BMX you still would get people that stay in the sport even as they age. Most people tend to want to go up in the classes, but an electric bicycle road racing class might be unusual in that human power might overcome weight, so rather than all these micro sized riders you could get some bigger guys too. Though bicycle racers tend to be light... Lance Armstrong is a pretty small guy for example.

These are the "wild west days" of electric vehicles, so it's a little early to expect everything to be in place. For now I have to deal with the "terrorists" on the street.

 

[AussieJester]

Maybe one day there will be a junior road racing class for kids that are from 14-18 years old where the speeds are limited by the motors and the tracks are safe.

There already is safe its called 125cc.

 

[safe]

There already is safe its called 125cc.

And they used to have a 50cc (changed to 80cc) class too.

Those are all being phased out now because of environmental concerns over pollution. As it looks now all the race bikes are going to be the big four strokes and the two strokes are completely being phased out.

By replacing the lower speed classes with electric it serves the purpose of filling an already existing need and allows the electric bikes a way to get into racing while the present technology is still primitive.

The future needs to be electric (or ethanol) so this all contributes towards the right direction.

The class I had in mind was a "junior, junior" class with only 750 watts as the base. Even the 50cc classes pump out something like 5-6 horsepower, so this class would be even slower than the old 50cc class.

 

[Lowell]

A Derbi GPR 50 comes stock with 9hp and will easily make 12-13 with bolt ons. I don't think a 1hp bike would have much appeal to race fans.

 

[TylerDurden]

I don't think a 1hp bike would have much appeal to race fans.

It might on them aforementioned drift-trikes.
[youtube]wCMBE4bhm1o[/youtube]

 

[safe]

I don't think a 1hp bike would have much appeal to race fans.

Does anyone think the race they did at Portland Raceway (mostly recumbents) has any appeal to race fans? I mean that was nothing but a timed event with no drafting and no real handling or sport performance demands. The Tour De France has speeds comparable to an electric bike race and people seem to like it because the riders are close to each other and there is a lot of strategy. My guess is that if everyone is given the exact same 750 watts of power and they are racing close together the drafting will be a very important part of it.

So you just never know...

 

[safe]

SUV's Have Their "Swagger" Back

With gasoline prices dropping the SUV driver once again feels they can drive like crazy. I was out on a ride and an SUV that maybe a few weeks ago might have followed me a while decided instead to pass me even though I had signaled that I was turning right in about 100 yards. The impatience and "swagger" is back for the SUV driver. Their confidence that they are the king of the road and "deserve to be" has returned.

I road on my somewhat closed course race track later in the day (that abandoned housing development) and it was a relief to be able to ride without cars always threatening.

Too bad oil prices are going down... I was kind of liking the "humble" SUV driver... it was a refreshing change.

 

[docnjoj]

Dont worry, Safe! With the Russians at war and the Nigerian rebels and Al Qaeda doing its thing and OPEC hating our guts and Venezuela despising us, U wont have to wait long!
otherDoc

 

[recumpence]

No kidding!

Matt

 

[safe]

Yeah I know... we seem to be in a temporary "good time" in an overall scary trajectory. Things will pick up in the next few years as far as international conflict.

If history is our guide Al Qaeda will want to "test us" when whoever is elected gets into office. So if we look at Bill Clinton it was the first attack on the WTC. With Bush it was the 911 attack. With whoever follows it will likely be something new... probably still New York, but you never know.

But there's going to be a "Honeymoon" period first... oil prices will be moderate, radical new policies (assuming Obama) will still be "talk" and not yet action so the consequences of them will have not had an effect. (however the stock market will have a hard time dealing with the idea of increased taxes)

It looks like the scariest times are probably at least 8-9 months away from now if not more.

For the time being the SUV driver gets to live his old life a little longer... :|