Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

[DogDipstick]

I just got a new module. These are testing 14.25Ah-15Ah out. I have been using the batts in the ^^ above pictures for some time now, and no loss od capacity or change inIr in the datalog when I put a charge on them.

Here you can see the battery ( one Volt 2250Wh Chevy Volt Module, how it is designed, and how the cells are arranged in the OEM production. If you wanted to remove cells in a 3p configuration you would want to cut along the inside of the " U-Shaped" bus bars, opposite the side of the tab welds. Right on either side of the little black molded dots ( no deeper than necessary!), then flip the module on its side and "bend" the module slightly against its back to pull the assembly out 3 at a time ( including heater plates and plastic cell casings). I do not need to do this because I do full individual testing of a cell by cell nature.

As you can see, I do not need to do this, because I am salvaging single cells. I mill the entire U-Shaped bus off until the tab is free.

 

[999zip999]

This is not a test bench but real life.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Volkswagen eGolf

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/07/20140721-egolf.html

View attachment 1

The e-Golf is powered by a 24.2 kWh, 323V Li-ion battery pack—318 kg (701 lbs), or 21% of the e-Golf’s DIN unladen body weight—with the component 25 Ah cells and modules provided by Panasonic. The pack is located between the front and rear axles. The front end of the battery is equipped with the Battery Management Controller (BMC) which performs safety, diagnostic and monitoring functions and also regulates the battery’s temperature in the Battery Junction Controller (interface to energy supply for the motor).

The modules (in 6- and 12- cell versions) are shipped in from Panasonic, and assembled into the pack at the Braunschweig plant. The pack comprises 264 cells in 27 modules (88s 3p). One of the challenges for the battery team was working through the volumetric geometry of the pack and the orientation of the modules to fit the space available in the e-Golf in adherence with the MQB approach.

The pack has no active cooling system. At the beginning, noted Dr. Manz, Volkswagen thought it might need a thermal management system. However, as the engineers went through testing on the pack with the packaging and the Volkswagen-developed management system, they discovered that they did not need a cooling system.

The e-drive unit consists of a 85 kW (114 hp), 270 N·m (199 lb-ft) synchronous electric motor (EEM 85) and single-speed transmission (EQ 270) with integrated differential and mechanical parking brake. Both motor and gearbox, which form a compact, modular unit, were developed in-house at Volkswagen. The e-drive unit is made at the Volkswagen components plant in Kassel, Germany.

The power electronics module controls the high-voltage energy flow between the e-motor and the lithium-ion battery (between 250 and 430 V depending on the battery voltage). The power electronics converts the direct current (DC) stored in the battery to alternating current (AC). The primary interfaces of the power electronics are its traction network connection to the battery; 3-phase connection to the electric motor; connector from the DC/DC converter to the 12V electrical system; and a connection for the high-voltage power distributor

Its hard to get accurate info, but after some research, the large "cinder blocks" shown in the pics are 4S / 3P and have 12 cells. The 3P provides 72-Ah, so maybe 24-Ah per cell when new. In order to have some sort of "Lego" modules that allow the same blocks to be used in a variety of EVs, they also have 6-cell modules, which I presume would be 2S / 3P, but...who knows?

 

[fechter]

What happens when reporters don't really know anything about batteries...

The pack comprises 264 cells in 27 modules (88s 3p)

 

[DogDipstick]

KIA HYUNDAI "up to '16", quoted from an internet reference. Sonata/ Optima

8s Modules You can see the 8s modules and balance contacts in the disassembly

Here is a link to a Battery Disassembly,you can see the BMS, contacts and hardware>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://isopack.blogspot.com/2017/...KAbbdNkmaoSrAXH9eM9fIWNd6WMVfN5Zw-Onya1aSZI


compliments of https://greentecauto.com/

Some physical damage to the exterior casing. No cell damage. Aluminum casings holding the cells in pairs against each other. Air cooled 8s modules. Good voltages, testing now. Will upload data.

( To be edited with more information...)

LG Chem LGXV4-2 Cells. From a Kia ( unknown as of yet). 8 cell modules : 8 cells in series for 28.8v. Nominal / Module,.

4Ah/cell, 16Wh/Cell,

130Wh / 8s Module. approx.

9.5 x 4.75 x .2 inch (10.5 Inch w/ tabs)

233g. Ea

IR ( measured on a Revolectrix powerlab6) 1.5mOh-2mOh stable repeated.

4Ah in on average, 3.95 Ah out on average.

The MAX I have gotten from a 1C discharge is 4.216 Ah @ 4amps. Most cells approached this in testing. I believe 4.25Ah ( prolly originally rated 4Ah) would be available with a .5C discharge. I have done many 2C discharges on a test, and they will report 3.8-3,9Ah out generally with a higher amp draw.

Tab Thickness: .0085 in, or .215 mm.

Tab dimension: ( cut from string) .25 in x 1.775 in. Average.

Of the initial purchase, 7 / 32 were puffed. 25 good ones. No damage and full capacity. The puffed ones also show good capacity ( 3.79, 3.80 Ah) but show some physical puffing around the tabs.
TEST: 1 Cell, 1C, 1 cycle ( from charged to discharged to charged) 4A constant current discharge/charge rate DATALOG. 4 Screens of the cycle.

CAPACITY

CellV

IR ( only shown from depleted state for accuracy)

AMPS(charge/discharge) / TIME

 

[DogDipstick]

It looks like the pos/neg tabs are on opposite ends of the cells. Could you show a closeup of how the pack framework clamps the tabs together?

Sure. The tabs are on opposit ends. The module uses air space for cooling and is layerd with small aluminum enclosures ( like a hard drive stamped enclosure)... holding two cells against each other back to back, the four enclosures making up per module, . You can remove the cells "as is" in a welded 8 cell string, zigzagging down the line end to end, pos to neg. from ground.

A module holds the balance connector, and the balance leads exit the bottom of the module. Main discharge is handled by two 8mm bolts nex to each other on the end of the module.

 

[miro13car]

Problem with Greentecauto is that they do not provide specs of batt modules
very bad for DIY crowd.
You have to dig yourself on Google to find out specs
Not like HibridAutocentre which provide detailed specs of every module they sell

 

[DogDipstick]

Problem with Greentecauto is that they do not provide specs of batt modules
very bad for DIY crowd.
You have to dig yourself on Google to find out specs
Not like HibridAutocentre which provide detailed specs of every module they sell

I have had a good discussion with GTA... He is nice once he figures you are a real buyer and will cater to you if you are not just phishing for cheap prices: something we all are guilty of one time or another. He is an expert in his field, you know, and that is acquiring batteries. Shipping is legal and not breaking the bank either.

Check out this little ol list I found... Hows this for specs... EV Batt thru 2019. Figures in RED are estimates. You can obviously see the POWER DENSE cellsv vs the not-so powerful. Plus capacity, form factor, and discharge/ charge rates, cooling, ect.

I Dl'd this a while ago but DID NOT save the credit for the reference. The source is gone now. SO: Whoever compiled this list... THANK YOU.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Mercedes

Apparently the 2014 Mercedes-Benz B-class uses a pack that is made by Tesla, using their cylindrical cells. Here is a short teardown video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhtlYDoQM38

[youtube]RhtlYDoQM38[/youtube]

 

[jkenny23]

Problem with Greentecauto is that they do not provide specs of batt modules
very bad for DIY crowd.
You have to dig yourself on Google to find out specs
Not like HibridAutocentre which provide detailed specs of every module they sell

I have had a good discussion with GTA... He is nice once he figures you are a real buyer and will cater to you if you are not just phishing for cheap prices: something we all are guilty of one time or another. He is an expert in his field, you know, and that is acquiring batteries. Shipping is legal and not breaking the bank either.

Check out this little ol list I found... Hows this for specs... EV Batt thru 2019. Figures in RED are estimates. You can obviously see the POWER DENSE cellsv vs the not-so powerful. Plus capacity, form factor, and discharge/ charge rates, cooling, ect.

I Dl'd this a while ago but DID NOT save the credit for the reference. The source is gone now. SO: Whoever compiled this list... THANK YOU.

Looks like your link is dead now too, but I saved it since it's an excellent reference. Attached to my post here also.

 

[miro13car]

what?
Greentecauto wants you to ship old battery?
you cannot just buy like that?

 

[John in CR]

Dogdipstick, what's with all the missing images above?

SM, if people have the privilege of sharing pics on the forum, then they should have to be actually shared by uploading. Disappearing images or being forced to join photobucket etc is an irritating disservice to all.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I agree about the pics. On occasion I have linked to a pic to save time, but when a picture is important to the post and the treasure of info here, I save the pic to my laptop and then upload it. I'm afraid I don't have the power to change that here on ES.

So many great pics have been lost in the older posts when Photobucket changed their policies. They waited till billions had uploaded pics to photobucket "for free", and then suddenly put a pay-lock on the door. At the very least, they should have grandfathered-in the pics previous to that, but I believe the things that happened were always the plan from the beginning.

 

[DogDipstick]

Dogdipstick, what's with all the missing images above?

SM, if people have the privilege of sharing pics on the forum, then they should have to be actually shared by uploading. Disappearing images or being forced to join photobucket etc is an irritating disservice to all.

I am sorry, I will be certain to re-upload them now since I know how to correctly. Expect an update.

 

[DogDipstick]

I agree about the pics. On occasion I have linked to a pic to save time, but when a picture is important to the post and the treasure of info here, I save the pic to my laptop and then upload it. I'm afraid I don't have the power to change that here on ES.

So many great pics have been lost in the older posts when Photobucket changed their policies. They waited till billions had uploaded pics to photobucket "for free", and then suddenly put a pay-lock on the door. At the very least, they should have grandfathered-in the pics previous to that, but I believe the things that happened were always the plan from the beginning.

Yeah I had to be prompted a few times until I got the enthusiasm to figure out the correct way. Expect update. keep up the good work being a writer and moderator, MrMagnets.

 

[TheSiege]

Here is a maybe dumb question. I bought ZEV scooter that was converted with a Chevy Volt battery. The previous owner said it was 21s3p 84v 51ah. On the one side of the 21s BMS is (4) 10awg wires, and the other side is just two wires, no AWG listed but they are bigger, maybe 4AWG. But I am wondering, would this mean its 4p? And without having to tear the scooter apart, is there a way to know for sure the AH? Thanks It is 21s, I know that much, the controller is 72v and the BMS does show the 21 cells

 

[spinningmagnets]

Mercedes

https://youtu.be/7PhRhCHQBZI

44V, 12S, 20-Ah, liquid cooling passages, temp sensors, 12V DC/DC converter for automobile accessories.

 

[Hillhater]

That is the battery for Merc’s 48v “mild Hybrid” system and similar to those used by various car manufacturers ( Audi, VW, etc) . And the DC/DC unit would be for a the 12v assessory supply. ?
These systems vary from 15kW belt driven “altermotors” to fully integrated “beltless” ehbrid drives with 48v drive electric superchargers, water pumps, steering pumps, a/c systems, etc etc, as well as 12v assessory supply.
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/Under-the-microscope-48-volt-system-More-power-performance-flexibility-comfort-and-efficiency.xhtml?oid=22934110

...Thanks to the use of a lithium-ion battery, the 48 volt network allows outputs of up to 16 kW and thereby considerably extends the range of applications for electrical consumers.

The power for the 48 volt network is generated by the ISG. Located between the engine and the transmission, this electrical machine combines the functions of a starter and alternator. The conventional 12 volt network is likewise supplied from the new network using a 48 volt/12 volt DC/DC converter. As there are high demands on the 12 volt on-board network in terms of system failure, a 12 volt battery continues to be used but in a smaller version than previously. The overall on-board battery capacity is increased by the 48 volt battery, allowing more electrical energy to be provided for innovative functions when stationary, e.g. in climate control

So, you can conclude that those cells are pretty powerful if they can provide 16kW (320A) to the motor , (and maybe more to those other devices at the same time ?)..with at least 16+C capeability and quite a few cycles if it is going to last a 3+ yr auto warranty period as a hybrid power supply .

 

[DogDipstick]

That is the battery for Merc’s 48v “mild Hybrid” system and similar to those used by various car manufacturers ( Audi, VW, etc) .

I believe they are Sk Innovation cells made for Li-tec-De.com and installed in all Daimler AG products?

BAtteryHookUp sold them and said they were LG cells but ( like usual) could not provide a sheet for the cells. I considered buying a mod and tearing it down. I hate it when I get ignored. they all think they are "LG Chem" cells.. Lol.. theya are not. I tried to comment. Sometimes the BHU guys are the blind leading the blind. THEY ARE NOT LG AS ADVERTISED.

That guy. Lol. I mean, look at it. Pile of used cells sitting on a wooden desk. I once scolded him in one of his comments cause he had live wires running everywhere and chaos all over the workbench, installing powerwaalls with out a single conduit or rated electrical enclosure box. Thankfully he took my advice and tightened up.

 

[Hillhater]

Its been a while with no new additions here, so i thought i would add this possible source of cells from the USA commercial EV maker Proterra.
Proterra make Electric bus’s and supply drive trains to other commercial vehicle manufacturers. The also produce their own battery packs, but Im not sure what cells they use ,..18650, 21700, 26650, ? ..or some other ,..but definitely cylindrical in the photos. No info on what chemistrys they may use either .
Pack capacities range from 25 kwh to 125 kWh, but they have assembled multiple packs up to 650 kWh !
They have been producing batteries etc for 10+ years, However, recently they have had several vehicles removed from service due to mechanical issues (cracked chassis ?) so i suspect it is possible some of these packs may start turning up at recyclers .
They look like possible sources for cells/ modules for other use’s especially domestic storage ?

The Proterra battery pack and module architecture also allows for easy separation of components for recycling purposes, ......

Watch the test video in their battery section, ...especially the mechanical test !
https://www.proterra.com/proterra-powered/battery-technology/

 

[Bradz estuff]

This what tesla packs look like fyi
They are far from easy to break down for cells.
I have some for sale ready to use if any 1 wanting some top quality stuff for build in Australia

 

[Hillhater]

GM Bolt pack/ cell info..
I found a interesting source here....
https://www.techinsights.com/blog/review-chevy-bolt-powertrain
With detail look at the LG pouch cell cross section..

 

[Warren]

GM Bolt pack/ cell info..
I found a interesting source here....

Yeah. This was posted on the ChevyBolt.org site too. It appears the anode and cathode foils are coated on both sides, so each is doing double duty. How does that work? Has anybody ever seen that before? Is that typical, and I just missed it all these years?

 

[Warren]

Apparently, it is. I swear I never saw a diagram showing coating on both sides. After a decade of looking at this stuff...amazing!

https://www.durr.com/en/duerr-more/simultaneous-two-sided-electrode-coating

 

[ZeroEm]

Your not alone warren, have not spent much time learning about them. Becoming more interested and wanting to go the way of foil bags of energy.