Samsung ICR18650-22P 2150mAh(High discharge rate)

Alastor

Alastor

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Hello again ,

Recently some Samsung ICR18650-22P 2150mAh(High discharge rate) cells came to my hands and wanted to test them out with my ebike.I didn't to soldering the cells so i just ordered some cheap Chinese 4s1p holders.
I replaced the wiring with some nice copper cable and i soldered some bullet connectors.I rapped the little packs with electrical tape and i start charging them.

Samsung claims that this high discharge rate cells can reach 10A so in a 20S setup i should have 84 volts out of the charger with a load range of 500 to 800 watts.So i think that even at this low capacity 2.1ah if i monitor the pack and set the CA amp limit to 6 Amps i should not over exceed the cells specifications.

Here are there specs.I also want to build my own balance leads.I was reading some articles on how to solder them and think its easy to do.I just need some JST 4s male and female plugs and some wires.
The way i want to make the wires is simple i just want to double check it with you guys because i might missed something.

+ve of the 1st battery
-ve of the 1st battery and +ve of the 2nd battery
-ve of the 2nd battery and +ve of the 3rd battery This is the combination i figured out i hope its the right one.It has the logic of wiring a BMS if you ask me.
-ve of the 3nd battery and +ve of the 4rd battery
-ve of the 4rd battery

Specification

Nominal Capacity 2150mAh (0.2C, 2.75V discharge)
Minimum Capacity 2050mAh(0.2C, 2.75V discharge)
Charging Voltage 4.2 ±0.05 V
Nominal Voltage 3.7V
Charging Method CC-CV (constant voltage with limited current)
Charging Current Standard charge: 1100mA
Rapid charge : 2150mA
Charging Time Standard charge : 3hours
Rapid charge : 2.5hours
Max. Charge Current 2150mA(ambient temperature25℃)
Max. Discharge Current 10A(ambient temperature 25℃)
Discharge Cut-off Voltage 2.75V
Cell Weight 48.0g max
Cell Dimension Height : 65.00mm max Diameter : 18.25mm max
Operating Temperature Charge : 0 to 45℃
Discharge: -20℃ to 60℃

P.S.
This will be an emergency pack
 

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I would be surprised if that cell can sustain 10A discharge. The "C" in ICR is for cobalt. So to the best of my knowledge, it's just a typical laptop cell. 0.5C to 1.0C continuous. Samsung does make high discharge 18650 cells. They are the INR series. The "N" is for Nickel-cobalt, I believe. I have tested the INR18650-13Q (1300mAh). It does fine and delivers full capacity at 3C continuous but gets real hot at 5C.

Where did you get the above specs? Is it from Samsung?
 
gensem said:
Would you be able to do some discharge tests at 3, 4, 5c?
Click to expand...

I can test them as 4s1p packs with my charger but i think it has a very small load application like 25 whats or something.
But i can hook a pack on a whats up meter that i have and will apply some load or something that i will find.I might use a thermometer as well to check on how they do.
When i charge em at 16.8volt * 1 amp they don't even get worm at all 21C resting 23C charging.

I just hope that the metal inside those cheap cases can hold 10A current for my testings.

Additional information : I think that i read somewhere that this cells are real C 4.5 witch is close to 9A approximately.If i find the site i will post it.

One pack left to charge and a cable to fix to begin testing.
 
I have some test results out of a test that i did with a 60 Watt load on one of the 4s1p packs.

The watts up meter indicated 4,6 amps total 60 watts.I did the test for two minutes and the temperature was increased from 21C to 25C > 4C on a 2 minute period.I think that the 300-400 watts in 20S is here.
Next test i will do it will be on the bicycle.

The individual cell reading with the 60 watts load if this helps out was 3.7 to 3.67.

If you want me to do another test that will help figure out more info on the cells let me know.

Started voltage 16.40 after the charge rest
End voltage of the test after 1 minute 16.19
 
Those spring-loaded cases could be problematic. You may want to check on the spring connector temp as yu go up in amp draw. I've had the ment and lose theri springiness.
otherDoc
 
docnjoj said:
Those spring-loaded cases could be problematic. You may want to check on the spring connector temp as yu go up in amp draw. I've had the ment and lose theri springiness.
otherDoc
Click to expand...

Ok thanks for the tip i will keep an eye on the springs as well but i don't intend to push the pack to much anyhow.
 
Hillhater said:
Discharge curve at 5A ...
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=73
Click to expand...
Excellent. Thanks.

Just as I suspected. The voltage sag is horrible at 5A. And the difference in usable energy between 2A and 5A is so wide: 7.311 vs 6.475Wh. So 8.8% was consumed by heat. There is no way this cell can do 10A. 5A continuous is already pushing it beyond its capability.
 
Nice details thanks mates.

I think that even with 3A per cell at 84Volts there is a lot of juice to go around.With this little pack i made 84Volts2.1Ah i can pull 600 watts of power in 20S configuration without exceeding the 3A per cell.

So setting up my E-Bike to 350-400 watts it should work out as an emergency pack for a few extra miles.

So with a load under 3A or close to it you can get 7.14 wp per cell * 20 = 142 WP.So the pack in theory again can push me 6-7 km's not bad.With my calculations it is safe to run this pack on 350 watts load without even creating a lot of heat.

I think this cells are really nice.But not even close to Samsung claims.Shame that they put out this kind of specs.Lucky me i didn't pay for them :)
 

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I did some testing today and i can say i am impressed by this little batteries.

Test 1.

I did 2KM's without any load to see consumption battery sag and everything.

Load was 150 most times and when i was powering the hub up like 250-300 watts.
Max speed 70 km/h
Temperature from 22C > 25C
Battery sag on full load from 82 < 78 not bad

Test 2.

I Pressed the front brake limited the CA to 6A * 82 = 500 watts peak.
Max speed 70km/h
Temperature from 22C > 35C
Battery sag on full load from 82 < 68 not even dangerous for the cells

I did this ten times before i measured the temperatures.I had the front brake locked , opened the throttle till the controllers starts to cut off power.The cables and the springs on the cheap cases where below 30C all the time.
I think it might be possible to use this thing as emergency pack.I can use this pack as 16v10ah as a laptop battery and lots of other applications.

What do you think ?

P.S.
If there is a better way to test them out let me know.
 
Laptop LiCo cells are my favorite batteries for my ebikes, bar none. But just like other type of batteries, they must be used within their design limits. And 1C or higher continuous discharge is not what they are designed for.

Alastor said:
Load was 150 most times and when i was powering the hub up like 250-300 watts.
Max speed 70 km/h
Click to expand...
How is this possible? 150W average and 70kph max speed?

Alastor said:
If there is a better way to test them out let me know.
Click to expand...
What are you trying to find? Discharge rate? Charge rate? Capacity?
 
SamTexas said:
Laptop LiCo cells are my favorite batteries for my ebikes, bar none. But just like other type of batteries, they must be used within their design limits. And 1C or higher continuous discharge is not what they are designed for.

Alastor said:
Load was 150 most times and when i was powering the hub up like 250-300 watts.
Max speed 70 km/h
Click to expand...
How is this possible? 150W average and 70kph max speed?

Alastor said:
If there is a better way to test them out let me know.
Click to expand...
What are you trying to find? Discharge rate? Charge rate? Capacity?
Click to expand...

Ok lets me explain this a little better.It was a test run without any load.And yes the numbers are correct.150watts 70km/hour the CA never lies :)

What i really want to find out is the discharge rate of this cells just because Samsung claims they can put out 10A >> 4.5C .I just want to see if there claims are true.
 
Alastor said:
What i really want to find out is the discharge rate of this cells just because Samsung claims they can put out 10A >> 4.5C .I just want to see if there claims are true.
Click to expand...
You already have the answer. The discharge graph posted by Hillhater conclusively says that this is a typical laptop LiCo cell. Also as indicated by the cell label: ICR, where the C is for cobalt. The 10A specs you found turned out to be just some fantasy cooked up by someone, and that's probably why it did not include any discharge graph. In short, 0.5C continuous, 2C burst discharge. It's still an excellent cell when used within its design parameters.

BTW, you might want to edit the thread title. "High discharge rate" might confuse future readers. But it's your thread, so your choice.
 
gensem said:
20 x 3.65 = 73v
With a 3c load its sagging to 68v
It that what you saying alastor?
Click to expand...

Yea close to that.84 volts off the charger the are 4.2 cells and with a load close to 3C was sagging to 68volts.With less load 1C the voltage drop was from 84 to 79-78.
Also in the 3C test the temperature of the cells was going up from 10C to 15C per cell.And that after 2 minutes of abusing the throttle with the front brake locked.The voltage was dropping instantly when i was closed the throttle.

thanks for the help mates again :D
 
http://www.google.com/search?q=ICR18650-22P+%28IMR%29&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7RNRN_en

and this

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6872/22ph.png

Confused ? I am :)

And this page on the Samsung site about ebike packs ?

http://www.samsungsdi.com/xev/electronic-bike-battery.jsp
 
etriker said:
Confused ? I am :)

And this page on the Samsung site about ebike packs ?
http://www.samsungsdi.com/xev/electronic-bike-battery.jsp
Click to expand...
Alastor said:
Same here man same here :)
Click to expand...
Why the confusion? What did I miss?

ON that page, Samsung talks about their 36V, 10Ah pack developed for ebike. It SPECIFICALLY says
It can produce up to 360 W output,
Click to expand...
that is 1C max. Nowhere on that page did I see 10A, 5A, or even 3A for a single cell.

Again, where is the confusion? May be you guys saw something I did not.
 
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