self charging e bike any ideas?

[adrianlit]

I have a idea and want to know if its possible.... how about having a e bike what has a small cheap battery what will turn the motor until you get to say 15mph then you have a micro wind turbine alternator attached to the frame with the blades side on so its like a waterwheel and u have it in a cowling with a ramair opening to turn the blades at 15mph+ when it then turns the battery so you run the electric motor via the wind turbine I know with what ive seen on the net there would be too much wind resistance to get the power to power the motor but imagine if it could happen you would have a range of 100s of miles and a saving of $500+ on batteries needed as 1kw micro turbines can be bought for a few hundred $ even cheaper from china,does anyone have any ideas if this could be possible

 

[el_walto]

Oh no, not you again.

No. It will not work. Here is a previous thread of the same question. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47528

 

[adrianlit]

what you on about "oh no not you again "we have never spoke before plus I was asking a technical question there is no need to be insulting I did state is it POSSIBLE isn't that the point of forums to ask advice if things are possible and not possible and to get a civil friendly reply/advice btw the post you showed me was nothing to do with what I was asking

 

[el_walto]

People keep coming up with this type of idea and posting about it. The reason it doesn't work, is because wind generator will not produce nearly enough energy. You could get some energy back, but not nearly enough.

You can actually use an ebike motor on regen mode, when regen is activated it will slow the bike down and put power back into the battery. Keep in mind that for most bike riders will only get about %2-%10 regen, giving them %2-%10 longer range per charge.

 

[Samd]

Betz limit says a wind turbine catches about less than half the available energy in the wind. It can't work.

I suggest at least some background in physics or engineering before going about thinking of ideas in those areas. You wouldn't do it for the other sciences, such as medicine.

"I have an idea and I want to know if it is possible, I want to put two turkeys down my underpants while suffering from a fatal disease whilst facing all know world religious and holy sites, whilst gripping a small unicorn by the..."
You get the idea.

That's why we take it as insulting.

 

[d8veh]

It will work if you get a big enough wind turbine. You'll need stabiliser wheels to stop your bike blowing over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKqC5JsurOk

 

[dogman dan]

Getting a lot of tough love here eh? Sorry, but several times a year we get to explain to another new guy that the dream is harder to achieve than you first think.

Hang in there, read and learn. Ebikes can do a lot, but they do have limits if they will remain bicycles. Even within some pretty strict limits, you can still have a great deal of fun riding ebikes, and talking about them here.

 

[Joseph C.]

Folding solar panels is the only practical way of charging an e-bike. And you need plenty of time.

 

[adrianlit]

thank you dogman for being respectful and non insulting in explaining the problems with my question why cant everyone else be like that ,I do understand the ones who are e bike experts get frustrated at what's not logical in e bike design etc but a lot of newbies are on here to learn from the likes of you dogman not get insulted from the idiots on here

 

[adrianlit]

It will work if you get a big enough wind turbine. You'll need stabiliser wheels to stop your bike blowing over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKqC5JsurOk

the idea I had was to have the turbine side on within the triangle bike frame so ts a low profile inline with the top tubes not a wind turbine at 90 degrees to the frame even I know that would produce lots of drag and would be too wide for the rd

 

[Samd]

You need to see a bike travelling at a known speed as a flywheel style storage device for kinetic energy. Your harvesting fan will always be slowing the bike down more than if it were not there at all.

Fans (pun intended) of regen always fall for a similar trap. If a bike is coasting nicely, there is no point slowing it via regen if you have no point stopping any time soon.

The equations for all the things you want to explore are readily available. Wikipedia has good explanations of kinematics, and betz' law for turbine harvesting.

Now whilst wind is a poor source of energy to the bike, solar is of some use whilst somewhat limited by size and the efficiency of cells topping out around twenty percent.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2013/04/09/3732763.htm

 

[dogman dan]

Using a turbine while riding just won't work. It's a laws of physics deal. If it worked, it would have been done in 1900.

You could carry solar panels, and charge while moving, but deploying a big enough panel while moving may create more drag than it's worth on a regular bike. You need the low drag cockroach shape of the solar cars to make it work. The compromise is to put about 100w of panel on a trailer, then unfold more when you park. 40w mounted on a bike, is not much wattage. Typically while cruising, you are using 400w. So 40w of panel cannot possibly keep up, and may cost you 30w in drag. Hot dog, a 10w gain!

But either solar panels or a wind turbine could be carried, then set up while stationary to charge the bike. In general, it's just easier to find a plug someplace though. When I go riding in the mountains, I carry a small generator in the car. The big mountains are 70 miles away, so taking the bike there in a car is best. This allows me to easily carry my 800w generator, and run several 350w chargers at once.

 

[Ykick]

thank you dogman for being respectful and non insulting in explaining the problems with my question why cant everyone else be like that ,I do understand the ones who are e bike experts get frustrated at what's not logical in e bike design etc but a lot of newbies are on here to learn from the likes of you dogman not get insulted from the idiots on here

And how is that any different with regard to name-calling insults? Chill bro, ask and learn but don't become "one of those". One more bit of advice - when you encounter users who appear to offend more than help, use the forum ignore feature. It's free, easy and helps reduce forum "noise" ratio to more acceptable level.

In regard to your OP - perpetual energy simply does not exist since it takes power to make power. There is no free lunch...

 

[crossbreak]

the idea I had was to have the turbine side on within the triangle bike frame so ts a low profile inline with the top tubes not a wind turbine at 90 degrees to the frame even I know that would produce lots of drag and would be too wide for the rd

Dont get what you mean... pictures can tell a thousand words, plz make a drawing!

 

[whatever]

i like these sort of questions, you never know what will come up in answers.
apparently one cosmic ray has enough energy to heat a cup of coffee, just need to find how to catch em

 

[TheBeastie]

I can't see how any one would see a wind turbine as being more efficient then the regen energy you get from a direct drive ebike motor.
Wind turbines need huge fins to turn the motor to generate energy, wind turbines are deliberately designed to be incredibly hard to turn because they generate more energy that way, same with nuclear/coal power plant turbines. No useful amount of energy is going to be created just by a small easy to turn motor.

Electric cars use the same regen technology as ebikes as in they just use the electric motor directly. Teslas have no brake pedal, you just take your foot off the accelerate pedal and regen of the motor automatically kicks in and it can easily stop the car, and it can stop the car quite quickly.

I guess another way maybe you should look at it is that they have spent billions of electric car technology over the years, if they thought some kind of wind turbine would help them they would already have it. It doesn't even exist in any concept car because its very bad inefficient idea.

 

[chilledoutuk]

LOL very funny this is a joke yes?

I mean do you seriously think that you spend x energy getting upto a certain speed and then use a generator that will capture more than x energy to power the hub what your proposing is perpetual motion not something thats going to happen with all the counter forces that exist in this loverly world of ours.

This makes me feel less embarrassed about building a carboard boat when i was 5 assuming your an adult that is.

 

[Kingfish]

I fear solar panels just won't cut it.

Ideas -> Dependencies

• Passive Induction -> Requires close proximity
• Free Radio Waves -> Watts converter; hey it's 24/7!
• Microwave or Laser -> Still needs a source to transmit from, though not so bad for space travel
• Portable RTG -> Might need approval from the DoE
• Mr. Fusion -> Back to the Future & Doc Brown 8)

[youtube]3HYoq6vIVXc[/youtube]

Conspiring, KF

 

[HAROX]

Adrian I have trouble understanding what you want to know about.
1 Is it possible? Could it BE possible?
2 Is the 15 miles per hour going to produce 15 watts? Your turbine alternator, will it work in a large wind?
3 Is the frame on its side? Will the ram air also be a ram jet? Will there be just enough wind to not resist the wind?
4 Are they on the net? Are they in the net? Could you imagine it? Would it happen? Would you save batteries?
5 Could you pay for it? Would you buy it in China?

Are these the questions you want to ask in the Valley of the Jolly (ho-ho-ho) Green Giants?
If you answered 'yes" to all the questions, you are on the way. If you answer 'no', you need to ask your questions again.

BTW, dogman seems like he's the 'nice' one here, however, everybody you were insulting is nicer than him. The only one's who's an absolute idiot 24/7/365 of all of us is ME!

I have a idea and want to know if its possible.... how about having a e bike what has a small cheap battery what will turn the motor until you get to say 15mph then you have a micro wind turbine alternator attached to the frame with the blades side on so its like a waterwheel and u have it in a cowling with a ramair opening to turn the blades at 15mph+ when it then turns the battery so you run the electric motor via the wind turbine I know with what ive seen on the net there would be too much wind resistance to get the power to power the motor but imagine if it could happen you would have a range of 100s of miles and a saving of $500+ on batteries needed as 1kw micro turbines can be bought for a few hundred $ even cheaper from china,does anyone have any ideas if this could be possible

 

[Joseph C.]

Electric cars use the same regen technology as ebikes as in they just use the electric motor directly. Teslas have no brake pedal, you just take your foot off the accelerate pedal and regen of the motor automatically kicks in and it can easily stop the car, and it can stop the car quite quickly.

Cars are much heavier than bicycles. You won't get much back from regenerative braking on a bicycle in comparison to a car. Though you will get longer use out of your brakes.

Secondly, of course Tesla's cars have brake pedals. You can drive them one-footed for most of the time but they still have a brake pedal.

 

[amberwolf]

I have a idea and want to know if its possible.... how about having a e bike what has a small cheap battery what will turn the motor until you get to say 15mph then you have a micro wind turbine alternator

It will only work to *extend* your range if you stop and wait for the wind to recharge your batteries. (this is going to take a long time). Then you go until they need charging again, then stop and wait for the wind to recharge them again.

It will *shorten* your range if you are trying to use it while riding. You'd need to cover it up so the blades don't cause drag while riding.

 

[Samd]

My point stands. Watching a chatroom full of people trying to be engineers is disturbing, particularly the OP. You don't tolerate a bunch of people doing this in the medical field.

The equations are known. Can't work.

 

[dogman dan]

I didn't notice the idiot comment. Strike one Adrian. Calling people idiots is not allowed here.

Calling an idea idiotic is.

 

[bobc]

Just to muddy the waters still further....

If the 'bike' were stationary, then in any wind, a turbine would produce some power, which could be used to drive the bike (OK maybe slowly).
In this case, driving the bike into the wind would increase the apparent windspeed seen by the turbine (oooh goody)

Obviously if there's no wind everything just stops because of inefficiency, but if there is a wind this system could be used. My engineering judgement is that it would work (badly).
A bit like sails on your bike.... possible but not recommended ;^)

 

[adrianlit]

but being insulted and belittled because u ask a civil question ..yes ok to some on here who take things serious don't have the understanding some people are discovering new technology and need advice if the thing can happen btw ive got 15 year automotive/mechanical production line experience so im not a complete idiot its e technology im wanting to understand and learn ....would a professor tell his new students your thick or dump with what you just asked me ,,,no they would be sacked... that is my point dogman people who belittle someone due to their lack of understanding the fundamentals of e bikes etc are idiots and narrow minded judgemental people

I didn't notice the idiot comment. Strike one Adrian. Calling people idiots is not allowed here.

Calling an idea idiotic is.