Shopping list

[MarkM1887]

I'm looking to build an ebike and need help with a shopping list.

Desired max speed on level ground. 100 mph maximum. I want it to be able to get me somewhere but not take forever this will be my first try at an ebike so I will take your recommendations on how fast I need it to go.
The first thing I need help with is choosing a frame. I don't want to buy something that's going to break in 6 months but I also don't want to use my 3k$ full suspension bike for this project either. I want to spend as little as is reasonable on the frame.
Desired max range at what cruising speed.again I really don't know. I'm probably going to buy a bunch of lion battery's from China for power and do a diy pack I can always expand later if I have to.
Preferred bike wheel size, or wheel size of bike you want to convert. Most common kits are for 26" wheels.
Brake type of motor wheel. Disc or not.
Rider weight. 160-200 pounds
I would like to keep the price as low as reasonably possible but I will pay where I have to.


Which of these cases for my battery's will be sufficient. I was think 80 18650's but will that be Overkill?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000157438415.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=1582410664&albag=59754279756&trgt=743612850874&crea=en4000157438415&netw=u&device=c&albpg=743612850874&albpd=en4000157438415&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI36PR9JbA7AIVaz6tBh3PBQxXEAYYAyABEgLBm_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[E-HP]

I'm looking to build an ebike and need help with a shopping list.

Desired max speed on level ground. 100 mph maximum. I want it to be able to get me somewhere but not take forever this will be my first try at an ebike so I will take your recommendations on how fast I need it to go.
The first thing I need help with is choosing a frame. I don't want to buy something that's going to break in 6 months but I also don't want to use my 3k$ full suspension bike for this project either. I want to spend as little as is reasonable on the frame.
Desired max range at what cruising speed.again I really don't know. I'm probably going to buy a bunch of lion battery's from China for power and do a diy pack I can always expand later if I have to.
Preferred bike wheel size, or wheel size of bike you want to convert. Most common kits are for 26" wheels.
Brake type of motor wheel. Disc or not.
Rider weight. 160-200 pounds
I would like to keep the price as low as reasonably possible but I will pay where I have to.


Which of these cases for my battery's will be sufficient. I was think 80 18650's but will that be Overkill?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000157438415.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=1582410664&albag=59754279756&trgt=743612850874&crea=en4000157438415&netw=u&device=c&albpg=743612850874&albpd=en4000157438415&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI36PR9JbA7AIVaz6tBh3PBQxXEAYYAyABEgLBm_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Looks like 280V and 250A should get you pretty close, as long as you can hit top speed within 60 seconds before the motor melts down.

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MCRO5004_Sinks&cont=cust_250_500_0.03_V&batt=cust_280_0.2_60&hp=0&axis=mph&mass=95

 

[Manbeer]

Looks more like 800 18650s

Maybe as I get older and injure more easily I'm becoming a bit of a pansy but things like this terrify me

To simplify things, those battery cases are typically just holders but don't actually connect the cells, you have to spot weld them

RC lipos are a good lower cost option for high power builds but require a bit more care and I wouldn't recommend them for a first-timer unless you were experienced with RC cars or something

It's pretty easy to get to 30 something on the flats with your typical thousand watt hub motor, maybe if you swap out controllers and get a 72-volt battery you can do high 30s or even 40

Beyond that and it becomes exponentially more expensive

Have you ever went from 25 or 30 miles an hour to zero in the blink of an eye on the bike? I have, though it may have taken a bit longer than the blink of an eye before my body finished hurtling through space. It f****** hurt the first time 10 years ago, and it hurt even more this year

I highly recommend NOT cheaping out on whatever is used for the basis of the build. I remember when Dodge came out with the SRT4 neon and people were basically scraping bodies off the ground because you had a cheap car with componentry that wasn't up to par with the power that people were making with a few modifications

That being said, when I build a high-powered bike the next time around, if it's not something like one of the more motocross styled stealth frames or whatever it will at least be a good quality decade old downhill bike that has geometry and suspension that is better suited to those types of speeds under less than ideal conditions, because you never know when someone will accidentally drop something like a fence post in the middle of the road :/

Do yourself a favor and start with something simple to get the feel for it. On a budget, I'd say at least find a decent used hardtail mountain bike, get a thousand watt rear hub kit which you can usually find for about 200 bucks. Get a decent 48 volt or 52 volt battery pack from a reputable seller so there's less of a chance of the house burning down because, though not often, it does happen from time to time

This will be good for a little over 30 miles an hour. Write it, get used to it tinker with it. Eventually you can upgrade the controller and get a 72 volt battery or something and probably get to 40 miles an hour.

When you outgrow it, you should have no trouble selling it for what you put into it and the learning experience will be invaluable

By the way E-HP , lmao at that motor simulation. My household electrical service wouldn't even be able to power that bike

 

[LeftieBiker]

100 mph maximum.

Thanks, I needed that! :lol:

 

[MarkM1887]

Looks more like 800 18650s

Maybe as I get older and injure more easily I'm becoming a bit of a pansy but things like this terrify me

To simplify things, those battery cases are typically just holders but don't actually connect the cells, you have to spot weld them

RC lipos are a good lower cost option for high power builds but require a bit more care and I wouldn't recommend them for a first-timer unless you were experienced with RC cars or something

It's pretty easy to get to 30 something on the flats with your typical thousand watt hub motor, maybe if you swap out controllers and get a 72-volt battery you can do high 30s or even 40

Beyond that and it becomes exponentially more expensive

Have you ever went from 25 or 30 miles an hour to zero in the blink of an eye on the bike? I have, though it may have taken a bit longer than the blink of an eye before my body finished hurtling through space. It f****** hurt the first time 10 years ago, and it hurt even more this year

I highly recommend NOT cheaping out on whatever is used for the basis of the build. I remember when Dodge came out with the SRT4 neon and people were basically scraping bodies off the ground because you had a cheap car with componentry that wasn't up to par with the power that people were making with a few modifications

That being said, when I build a high-powered bike the next time around, if it's not something like one of the more motocross styled stealth frames or whatever it will at least be a good quality decade old downhill bike that has geometry and suspension that is better suited to those types of speeds under less than ideal conditions, because you never know when someone will accidentally drop something like a fence post in the middle of the road :/

Do yourself a favor and start with something simple to get the feel for it. On a budget, I'd say at least find a decent used hardtail mountain bike, get a thousand watt rear hub kit which you can usually find for about 200 bucks. Get a decent 48 volt or 52 volt battery pack from a reputable seller so there's less of a chance of the house burning down because, though not often, it does happen from time to time

This will be good for a little over 30 miles an hour. Write it, get used to it tinker with it. Eventually you can upgrade the controller and get a 72 volt battery or something and probably get to 40 miles an hour.

When you outgrow it, you should have no trouble selling it for what you put into it and the learning experience will be invaluable

By the way E-HP , lmao at that motor simulation. My household electrical service wouldn't even be able to power that bike

So Any old hardtail will do? How much should I expect to pay for the bike if I was buying it new? Maybe you could show me some specific bikes. Sorry I know im not being much help. With that holder can I use those 18650 bolt together units instead of spot welding or is space going to be too tight?

 

[E-HP]

Preferred bike wheel size, or wheel size of bike you want to convert. Most common kits are for 26" wheels.
Brake type of motor wheel. Disc or not.
Rider weight. 160-200 pounds
I would like to keep the price as low as reasonably possible but I will pay where I have to.

Which of these cases for my battery's will be sufficient. I was think 80 18650's but will that be Overkill?

100mph and reasonable cost don't go in the same sentence, so your budget would be helpful for realistic advice. Using the above data, 80 cells can give you 10S8P, 13S6P, or 14S5P. With decent cells, those combinations, with a safe buffer, would provide approximately 36V 40A, 48V 30A, or 52V 25A. You could push the cells harder or get higher discharge cells (but with less capacity), but the figures will help you decide on the motor. A 1000W direct drive motor would work well with those batteries, but a 3kW QS or MXUS would kill them quickly.

If you go with a 1000W direct drive, then most likely you're looking for a frame with 135mm drop outs. Not thru axles, not 142mm or 150mm, but old fashioned 135mm quick release dropouts. The disc or rim brake decision creates some heated discussions around here, so I'll just say personally I prefer disc, so the frame needs disc brake posts if you want them. You could also go with a geared hub, but you probably want to get used to direct drives, since your future goals will require more power than a geared hub can handle.

Given your choice of battery case, you may even be able to fit the battery into a full suspension frame, if you do your research; but in general a normal triangle makes fitting the battery easier. Sadly, I looked at the Craigslist postings in Tennessee and was shocked at how much folks are charging for used bikes. Literally 5 times what I see for the same bikes on my local Craigslist. Still, there were a few viable options there as well.

 

[MarkM1887]

Preferred bike wheel size, or wheel size of bike you want to convert. Most common kits are for 26" wheels.
Brake type of motor wheel. Disc or not.
Rider weight. 160-200 pounds
I would like to keep the price as low as reasonably possible but I will pay where I have to.

Which of these cases for my battery's will be sufficient. I was think 80 18650's but will that be Overkill?

100mph and reasonable cost don't go in the same sentence, so your budget would be helpful for realistic advice. Using the above data, 80 cells can give you 10S8P, 13S6P, or 14S5P. With decent cells, those combinations, with a safe buffer, would provide approximately 36V 40A, 48V 30A, or 52V 25A. You could push the cells harder or get higher discharge cells (but with less capacity), but the figures will help you decide on the motor. A 1000W direct drive motor would work well with those batteries, but a 3kW QS or MXUS would kill them quickly.

If you go with a 1000W direct drive, then most likely you're looking for a frame with 135mm drop outs. Not thru axles, not 142mm or 150mm, but old fashioned 135mm quick release dropouts. The disc or rim brake decision creates some heated discussions around here, so I'll just say personally I prefer disc, so the frame needs disc brake posts if you want them. You could also go with a geared hub, but you probably want to get used to direct drives, since your future goals will require more power than a geared hub can handle.

Given your choice of battery case, you may even be able to fit the battery into a full suspension frame, if you do your research; but in general a normal triangle makes fitting the battery easier. Sadly, I looked at the Craigslist postings in Tennessee and was shocked at how much folks are charging for used bikes. Literally 5 times what I see for the same bikes on my local Craigslist. Still, there were a few viable options there as well.

I don't actually want to go 100 mph. I just know for sure I will never want to go faster than that. 50 would probably be too fast for me.

I definitely don't want to spend over 2k I would like to keep the price for everything under 1k it's my first one so realistically I'll build it ride it for a while and when I'm not happy with it anymore I will build a nicer one and sell the old one.

 

[Manbeer]

Also look into the MXUS hub motor/kt controller + battery kits that Chamrider store sells on aliexpress. While DD is a bit more simple and reliable, these look to be a great value and you can get a kit for around 550 shipped that should do about 30 iirc while providing a bit more torque and nice display. I will try to link later when I have a bit more time but there is a recent thread regarding them and some videos floating around. They appear to be a bit of a beast, it seems replacement parts are available, and the batteries, while not the most amazing , also seem decent for the price of the kit

A decent used hardtail for a couple hundred bucks, maybe a good set of brake pads and fresh tires, and some torque arms and you should be well within budget

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=103169

Here you go, there is a link to the kit somewhere on the second page

 

[John in CR]

100 mph maximum.

Thanks, I needed that! :lol:

I'm the only one I know of on the forum with 100mph+ ebikes, and I'm not selling any of the 6 hubmotors I have that will do that speed. One member built an emoto for the drag strip that exceeded my top speed of 113mph, but that was a double wide QS273 hubmotor and he burned his up in just a handful of runs under 20 seconds each. Only my HubMonsters are capable of the high rpms required for high speed. If you plan to actual ride quite fast (over 60mph or so) then you have to go with motorcycle tires, and if you really want fast just forget about large diameter wheels unless you go with a big mid-drive motor. I use the lowest profile 13" scooter tires I can find which are just a bit bigger than 19" OD. Going the mid-drive route you'd really need to build a custom frame or be able to modify a motorcycle frame to fit the battery, because the motor will take up a lot of valuable battery real estate.

What kind of riding are you planning? Is it just for street riding running errands around town? If so, then wheel diameter isn't a big deal unless your roads are crappy. What kind of range do you need?

For a first time builder I'd suggest setting your sights at a realistic 60-70mph top speed in a normal riding position. You have no appreciation yet of how quickly going fast chews through battery capacity. Sure some of my ebikes are ultra fast, but it's really only to demonstrate the potential of electrics with the times I've exceeded 100mph you can count on one hand. I do go 60-70 regularly on the highway. The real fun is in the extreme acceleration possible with a high power electric.

Assuming street only and a 60-70mph top speed, then a QS273 speed winding and a 13" or 16" or at most a 17" rim would be my suggestion for a hubmotor fed with a Nucular 24F controller, which you'd need to order now as there's quite a wait. For the battery you'd need 22s (81V nominal) to keep your top of charge voltage safely below 95V, and you'll need a lot more than 80 cells you mentioned if you go the 18650 route unless your distances are quite short. For a frame for this street bike I'd suggest an EEB ebike frame, which is strong enough with plenty of room for batteries, and the only modification needed would be on the clamping dropouts to fit the big motor axle. My EEB tops out a bit above 80mph without having to get in an aerodynamic tuck riding position, and it's great for the street. Plus they're quite cheap at about $400 plus shipping. Starting with a bicycle frame would require metal working ability, and you'd want a steel dual suspension bike. The EEB will make things pretty simple.

If you really plan on riding very fast, you should consider going without a chain connected to the pedals. Imagine a freewheel failure that suddenly locks the freewheel at highway speeds. If you insist on functional pedals that realistically will never be used to propel a very high powered ebike, consider protecting yourself with a double freewheel, one at the motor and one on the chainring at the cranks. I actually prefer the variable foot position of pedals over moto pegs, but I never install a chain on my high speed ebikes.

 

[dogman dan]

This is where I usually say get a gas motorcycle. 40-50 mph ebike can be affordable enough, but battery costs tend to make your used motorcycle cheaper per mile by a large margin. Especially for 100 mph. I put a lot more miles on my BMW than I ever did on e bikes. Its just so fun and so cheap and can do 120. I do go through some tires though.

Take affordable out of your expectations though, and you can go for the fast e bike. I never said they weren't fun. Lipo batteries with at least 30-40c is the way to go for a small battery able to punch out the power. RC stuff.

 

[ZeroEm]

Especially for 100 mph



Or with a friend



Best choice

 

[E-HP]

I don't actually want to go 100 mph. I just know for sure I will never want to go faster than that. 50 would probably be too fast for me.

I definitely don't want to spend over 2k I would like to keep the price for everything under 1k it's my first one so realistically I'll build it ride it for a while and when I'm not happy with it anymore I will build a nicer one and sell the old one.

$1k is doable if you go with a used donor bike. I put mine together originally for around $600, using my old steel framed mountain bike as the donor, and upgraded the frame later. I still can't get over the price of used bikes in your area, but maybe something like this
https://knoxville.craigslist.org/bik/d/knoxville-schwinn-sidewinder-mountain/7196560559.html

No rear disc posts, but at least there's front suspension. If you plan to ride over 20mph at all, then front suspension is a good idea, for safety, let alone comfort. Regular riding over 30 mph, and full suspension is a good idea for staying alive. A cheap donor bike leaves more for the battery, which is the main investment. If I were starting again with a $1000 budget, the extra $400 would mostly go toward a more capable battery.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't actually want to go 100 mph. I just know for sure I will never want to go faster than that. 50 would probably be too fast for me.

So you're trying to avoid accidentally building a $1k bicycle that will scare you by going 100MPH? Ok. I suggest a nice, large, 24 volt battery. Maybe a big emergency brake, too.

 

[ZeroEm]

Bigger battery =

 

[Manbeer]

Another option that could potentially work would be to find an old dirt bike with a blow motor and convert it. it would definitely be less legal, but depending on if its a rural area there may actually be more things like that floating around for sale.

then you would have the proper format for high speed, albeit with a bit of a weight penalty

something i have toyed around with the idea of as EEB, stealth clones aren't much for the frame but a decent fork often costs what i can find a blown old kx100 or whatever for

 

[MarkM1887]

I don't actually want to go 100 mph. I just know for sure I will never want to go faster than that. 50 would probably be too fast for me.

I definitely don't want to spend over 2k I would like to keep the price for everything under 1k it's my first one so realistically I'll build it ride it for a while and when I'm not happy with it anymore I will build a nicer one and sell the old one.

$1k is doable if you go with a used donor bike. I put mine together originally for around $600, using my old steel framed mountain bike as the donor, and upgraded the frame later. I still can't get over the price of used bikes in your area, but maybe something like this
https://knoxville.craigslist.org/bik/d/knoxville-schwinn-sidewinder-mountain/7196560559.html

No rear disc posts, but at least there's front suspension. If you plan to ride over 20mph at all, then front suspension is a good idea, for safety, let alone comfort. Regular riding over 30 mph, and full suspension is a good idea for staying alive. A cheap donor bike leaves more for the battery, which is the main investment. If I were starting again with a $1000 budget, the extra $400 would mostly go toward a more capable battery.

Ok so that frame would be ok but if I'm going to be doing regular fast riding I would need full suspension.


Would something like this work: https://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Protocol-Mens-Mountain-Bike/dp/B07QGBB6KD

What about this:
Titan Fusion-Pro Men's Dual Suspension Alloy Mountain Bike, Orange/Silver

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Titan-Fusion-Pro-Men-s-Dual-Suspension-Alloy-Mountain-Bike-Orange-Silver/41884117


It looks like I can get the bike you listed new from Walmart for 200. Any other suggestions?

 

[E-HP]

Ok so that frame would be ok but if I'm going to be doing regular fast riding I would need full suspension.


Would something like this work: https://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Protocol-Mens-Mountain-Bike/dp/B07QGBB6KD

What about this:
Titan Fusion-Pro Men's Dual Suspension Alloy Mountain Bike, Orange/Silver

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Titan-Fusion-Pro-Men-s-Dual-Suspension-Alloy-Mountain-Bike-Orange-Silver/41884117


It looks like I can get the bike you listed new from Walmart for 200. Any other suggestions?

The Amazon bike looks better for fitting a battery in the triangle, but it's hard to know for sure without seeing the bike or if there are some decent measurements. Just note it has 27.5" wheels. You'd need to get creative on battery placement for the Walmart bike.

 

[MarkM1887]

Ok so that frame would be ok but if I'm going to be doing regular fast riding I would need full suspension.


Would something like this work: https://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Protocol-Mens-Mountain-Bike/dp/B07QGBB6KD

What about this:
Titan Fusion-Pro Men's Dual Suspension Alloy Mountain Bike, Orange/Silver

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Titan-Fusion-Pro-Men-s-Dual-Suspension-Alloy-Mountain-Bike-Orange-Silver/41884117


It looks like I can get the bike you listed new from Walmart for 200. Any other suggestions?

The Amazon bike looks better for fitting a battery in the triangle, but it's hard to know for sure without seeing the bike or if there are some decent measurements. Just note it has 27.5" wheels. You'd need to get creative on battery placement for the Walmart bike.

So an aluminum bike will be ok for my project? What wheel size would you suggest?


https://www.amazon.com/Kent-KZ2600-Dual-Suspension-Mountain-26-Inch/dp/B00OW1PMTW

How about this? Does the battery space look good? Would I be better off with 29 inches?

 

[E-HP]

Ok so that frame would be ok but if I'm going to be doing regular fast riding I would need full suspension.


Would something like this work: https://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Protocol-Mens-Mountain-Bike/dp/B07QGBB6KD

What about this:
Titan Fusion-Pro Men's Dual Suspension Alloy Mountain Bike, Orange/Silver

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Titan-Fusion-Pro-Men-s-Dual-Suspension-Alloy-Mountain-Bike-Orange-Silver/41884117


It looks like I can get the bike you listed new from Walmart for 200. Any other suggestions?

The Amazon bike looks better for fitting a battery in the triangle, but it's hard to know for sure without seeing the bike or if there are some decent measurements. Just note it has 27.5" wheels. You'd need to get creative on battery placement for the Walmart bike.

So an aluminum bike will be ok for my project? What wheel size would you suggest?


https://www.amazon.com/Kent-KZ2600-Dual-Suspension-Mountain-26-Inch/dp/B00OW1PMTW

How about this? Does the battery space look good? Would I be better off with 29 inches?

For direct drive hubs in the 1000W range, you would need a torque arm (or two if you plan to run more power), so an aluminum frame would be fine. 26" is the most common sized mounted hub motor, but they come is most sizes. Smaller diameter provide more torque to the ground, but lower speeds, so if you have lots of hills, smaller is better; flat ground, larger will give you more speed.

Really hard to judge the battery space from pictures, so might be better for others that may be familiar with those bikes to chime in. I'd say out of the links you provided so far, the Amazon/Schwinn model looks to be most promising.

 

[MarkM1887]

Ok so that frame would be ok but if I'm going to be doing regular fast riding I would need full suspension.


Would something like this work: https://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Protocol-Mens-Mountain-Bike/dp/B07QGBB6KD

What about this:
Titan Fusion-Pro Men's Dual Suspension Alloy Mountain Bike, Orange/Silver

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Titan-Fusion-Pro-Men-s-Dual-Suspension-Alloy-Mountain-Bike-Orange-Silver/41884117


It looks like I can get the bike you listed new from Walmart for 200. Any other suggestions?

The Amazon bike looks better for fitting a battery in the triangle, but it's hard to know for sure without seeing the bike or if there are some decent measurements. Just note it has 27.5" wheels. You'd need to get creative on battery placement for the Walmart bike.

So an aluminum bike will be ok for my project? What wheel size would you suggest?


https://www.amazon.com/Kent-KZ2600-Dual-Suspension-Mountain-26-Inch/dp/B00OW1PMTW

How about this? Does the battery space look good? Would I be better off with 29 inches?

For direct drive hubs in the 1000W range, you would need a torque arm (or two if you plan to run more power), so an aluminum frame would be fine. 26" is the most common sized mounted hub motor, but they come is most sizes. Smaller diameter provide more torque to the ground, but lower speeds, so if you have lots of hills, smaller is better; flat ground, larger will give you more speed.

Really hard to judge the battery space from pictures, so might be better for others that may be familiar with those bikes to chime in. I'd say out of the links you provided so far, the Amazon/Schwinn model looks to be most promising.

I found that one because it's a front and rear suspension bike the only thing I don't like so much is that $400 price tag. The wheel size doesn't matter too much to me but since the 26th is the most common I'll probably find a better deal on a motor if I get 26-in tires right? Anyway I would love more suggestions for a bike / frame.

 

[E-HP]

I found that one because it's a front and rear suspension bike the only thing I don't like so much is that $400 price tag. The wheel size doesn't matter too much to me but since the 26th is the most common I'll probably find a better deal on a motor if I get 26-in tires right? Anyway I would love more suggestions for a bike / frame.

Personally, I'd go with a good quality hard tail with good front suspension, than a cheap full suspension. It's really about safety for me, more than comfort, so hitting a big pothole with a cheap fork vs a good fork, going 25 mph, can mean the difference between crashing or a near hit. I would keep looking on Craigslist or eBay for something better.

Also, I have a really nice full suspension bike hanging from the rafters in my garage. I didn't want to convert it either, and used my old steel hard tail, that I later upgraded. My full suspension is never going to get ridden; finally figured that out. A mid-drive is in it's future.

 

[MarkM1887]

I found that one because it's a front and rear suspension bike the only thing I don't like so much is that $400 price tag. The wheel size doesn't matter too much to me but since the 26th is the most common I'll probably find a better deal on a motor if I get 26-in tires right? Anyway I would love more suggestions for a bike / frame.

Personally, I'd go with a good quality hard tail with good front suspension, than a cheap full suspension. It's really about safety for me, more than comfort, so hitting a big pothole with a cheap fork vs a good fork, going 25 mph, can mean the difference between crashing or a near hit. I would keep looking on Craigslist or eBay for something better.

Also, I have a really nice full suspension bike hanging from the rafters in my garage. I didn't want to convert it either, and used my old steel hard tail, that I later upgraded. My full suspension is never going to get ridden; finally figured that out. A mid-drive is in it's future.

Define a good quality hard tail. How much does one of those cost new? Maybe a good example.

 

[Manbeer]

https://www.thebicycleguys.com/collections/full-bikes

If you can't find much local keep checking inventory here. They are good sellers and I've ordered a few bikes from them, they usually refurbish anything that needs to be and everything is priced reasonably considering it's turnkey and shipping is included

 

[E-HP]

Define a good quality hard tail. How much does one of those cost new? Maybe a good example.

Pretty much bicycle store vs big box store.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Define a good quality hard tail. How much does one of those cost new?

Any bike with a good suspension fork, a robust rear end that will easily accept a hub motor, and/or a strong crank section that will accept a mid drive, and good disk brakes.