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Small A123 12s1p battery pack

jerrysimon

10 W
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
82
For the last two years on my ebike i.e. 2500 miles, 500 charge cycles I have been using the pack shown below. Its a 10.5 mile round commute and I can always carry a second battery if I need to go further.

4272164656_dca730dfc2_o.jpg


As a novice I constructed it simply myself from single cells building two 6s1p packs connected in series and protected with a 15 amp fuse. I did include balancing leads as well. I had previously used Lipos in my RC hobby before but wanted to use LiFeP04 A123 cells for worry free unattended charging at home and work.

The pack was contructed and balanced initially using a Turnigy charger/balancer, but for the best part of two years has just been bulk charged with a generic 36v, 1.6amp SLA charger and not balanced. I have a Celllog which I used to watch each 6s1p pack the first few months but stopped using it after the cells remained very well balanced. I tended to charge it at work and after the return journey when I got home. It has pretty much been used every working day for the last two years and has been very much a charge and forget pack. It was really done as a test to see if these cells needed balancing. Anyway in the last few weeks I have had to change two cells that died one from each 6s1p pack. It now seems to be running fine again. I think given it cost me £60 to make and the way I have used it, it has done remarkably well ? I have another newer pack which my daughter has been using and I tend to now balance that every couple of months or so. It will be intersting to see how it compares.

I have brought some more cells (from the same ebay seller sz_ohmygod btw) and wondered if I should fit a BMS to see how much better/longer it might perform. Alternatively I could start balancing it say every month/60 charge cycles. I fancy using a BMS though just to see how all three battery use strategies compare.

Anyway the question is I have been looking at a few BMS units and these seem the two I have come down to

8S LiFeP04 BMS (same as Cell Mans ?)

17s26s-24a-max-discharge-current-bms.jpg


Or their SMART 5-13s one

lifepo4lithium-ion-smart-bms-for-513-cells-in-series.jpg


Maybe its just over complicating things and a monthy balance would increase the charge cycles before failure. It would be nice to see if I could get 1000+ charge cycles out of this little battery though :D

Regards

Jerry

been
 
Jerry, to be brutally honest ...just do not touch those Chinese BMS they suck all of them. The first one is not the one Cellman uses as I have loads of his BMS...his ones have given me no problems at all but where he gets them from is his secret.

I would take a look at this page http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30021&start=135

these are US made by guys who know what they are doing.
 
Thanks it does seem like a lot of hassle and another thing to go wrong if I start adding a BMS into the mix, given that this little pack seems to have fit my application so well.

Reading the FAQ it has also occured to me that at times I did not alway charge at work, running my pack out completly when I got home. Always charging at work will ensure my pack is never at less than about 40% capacity, which again with monthly balancing might help me get more charge cycles from a pack before it fails.

Regards

Jerry
 
I wouldn't bother with a bms for a123's. I think your main problem is running the pack too low. That was why only one cell was bad from each pack. It was the first to go. What you should get is a low voltage cutoff or warning system so you don't abuse the cells.
 
Hook up some balance wires into 2 x 6 cell groups and just use a cheap RC charger to balance charge once a month. Wouldn't cost you more than $40 and would give you a lot of info on individual cells.
 
Thanks guys. I have a Turnigy charger/balancer. With taps fitted on the each 6s1p packs I have been checking and balancing them as required. I think as you say the problem was I used them a few times when I exhausted the complete battery charge i.e. did not always charge them at work. For a £60 a pack its a good simple solution and though two cells failed at 500 charge cycles having replaced them its still working!

I think a strategy of

1. Always charge at work half way through the daily use of the pack
2. Balance once a month on my Turnigy charger/balancer
3. Maybe over kill and not required but leave one of those little battery monitors attached to each 6s1p pack. Problem is if I am off and don't use the pack for a week or so they will drain them down ?

Regards

Jerry
 
None of those.

I used the A123, 3.3v, 2.3Ah cylinder cells.

4143431063_ee00dc5190_o.jpg


Its a small pack but fits my ebike application perfectly, needing to be light so I can carry the bike (13Kg) and bag (3Kg incl controller and battery) into work.

6308934524_38652b776a_o.jpg


5742770530_2a81987819_o.jpg


Regards

Jerry
 
If you are worried about current drain you can try this solution. it would solve all your issues.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32135

jerrysimon said:
Thanks guys. I have a Turnigy charger/balancer. With taps fitted on the each 6s1p packs I have been checking and balancing them as required. I think as you say the problem was I used them a few times when I exhausted the complete battery charge i.e. did not always charge them at work. For a £60 a pack its a good simple solution and though two cells failed at 500 charge cycles having replaced them its still working!

I think a strategy of

1. Always charge at work half way through the daily use of the pack
2. Balance once a month on my Turnigy charger/balancer
3. Maybe over kill and not required but leave one of those little battery monitors attached to each 6s1p pack. Problem is if I am off and don't use the pack for a week or so they will drain them down ?

Regards

Jerry
 
kfong said:
If you are worried about current drain you can try this solution. it would solve all your issues.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32135

That's pretty impressive kfong 8)

999zip999 said:
high quailty cells 1p string great. What motor and controller ?

Its a Tongxin with their standard controller they ship with the motor.

Regards

Jerry
 
180W :shock:

Its light assist only to 15mph as I like to pedal a bit. The motor has to be small to fit in the Bromtpon forks which are only 80mm wide.

Regards

Jerry
 
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