SoCal Motor Bicycle Race Sat Oct 22nd 2011 Grange Race Track

[MotorBicycleRacing]

SoCal Motor Bicycle Racing 2011 Grange Racetrack.

Saturday Oct 22nd 2011

Gate opens at 6.00am Saturday for registration.

Sunrise: 7:03am
Sunset: 6:12pm

11 hours track time from 7am to 6pm

Heats start at 10am with eBikes first.

Free camping Friday night and Saturday night included with entry.

Grangé Motor Circuit
20455 Central Rd.
Apple Valley, CA 92307

Directions:

15 Freeway North past Victorville.
Take the Bell Mtn / Stoddard Wells Rd off ramp and go East
(There are 2 Stoddard Wells Rd. The second is Bell Mtn )
When you reach Central Rd.
Go South approx 1/4 mile and you are there.

Track Specifications: ~3400' elevation.

14 turns
8/10 mile
950' straight away
Elevation Changes
25' to 30' wide asphalt
Concrete Curbs on inside turn radius
Concrete Rumple Strips at run-off areas
25' minimum run off

We are running the track counter clockwise.

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

This will be a 'run what you brung' race, yes?

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

This will be a 'run what you brung' race, yes?

Hey Steve
Sorry, I do not know what you mean by that and you missed a really
fun event last June 18th at Willow Springs Raceway.

There will be a 5000 kw generator provided by the track for you
ebike guys this time.
There are no high amp electric outlets at the track.

There will be an ebike Class that will run its two 5 lap heats and 12
lap final first so you have time to charge your batteries.

The fastest 7 or so ebikes will race against all the other gas bike classes
at the end of the day in the "Ultimate Race"

eBikes must run the heats to be in the "Ultimate Race"

The gas bikes are limited to 11 hp, it is hard to equate that to ebikes
but that is going to be the limit for ebikes too.

The only eBike rules are functioning pedals and no real motorcycle tires
at this time as well as the 11 hp limit.
The Moped Pirelli ML75 tires used by Etard are OK as long as they are
on bicycle rims.

Any eBikes and gas bikes that don't fit into the few rules will be in an
"Unlimited Class" that does not get to race in the "Ultimate Race"

SoSauty aka Will the eBike winner at the Willow Springs race is in charge
of working out the eBike Class.

61 days to go to the race!

 

[fizzit]

There will be a 5000 kw generator provided by the track for you
ebike guys this time.

Dayam you gassers sure know how to make a generator!

 

[johnrobholmes]

11hp limit? We know you aren't Safe


Sounds like a fun race, hope the turnout is strong for you!

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

11hp limit? We know you aren't Safe

Sounds like a fun race, hope the turnout is strong for you!

Thanks, there were about 76 entries at the first race at Willow Springs,
9 of them were ebikes and mainly guys from this forum.

I hope that they all show up again this time along with a few more of you
guys. Everyone had a blast.

Safe is a pain in the arse who talks a lot about races on go kart tracks
but talk is cheap.......It takes real work, time, money to actually put
on a race and pull it off.

There was an 18 to 20 hp 4 stroke powered bicycle ridden by one of the race
sponsors affordablegokarts.com at the last race that lapped the 2nd place
9 hp Morini in the 12 lap final. Too bad that liveforphysics burned up and
didn't get to duel it out with that 4 stroke.

This next race any monster bikes like this will be in an "Unlimited Class" and
won't be racing against the other 5 motor classes in the big finale "Ultimate race"

 

[SoSauty]

1) e-Bike: generally <9K peak input, 8.1K output almost 11 electric hp
dual motors sum <9K
(single hub motors are given an exception to 9K input as they aren't generally capable of 11+h.p.)
Turnigy's, Colossus, Astros, others,
<9K input for (edit this out: hubbies C9s, 53XXs, BMC), Stoke Monkey, others
>9K nominal input races in unlimited
Remember, Paul D won at Tucson running <5K though he pedaled and was pretty light :wink:

See MBRs' post below for classes 2 thru 4 and unlimited.

 

[Thud]

I am acheing for some good raceing!

After the throw down on the lil indy Kart track (9/24 & 9/25) I will be itching to create some brake dust on the pavment.

But I am stranded in the eastern 1/2 of the great midwest.

Anyone in the local area (I guess the entire ohio valley area & points west LOL) want to drive to callifornia for an amature Bike race? I can get the time off work & 3 or 4 guys could split gas & driving time. bikes don't take up much room.

would be a memory creating adventure to say the least. who's Game? Lets get a convoy of E-bikers heading to the event!
comon guys, you only live once & you can't take it with you.

Its only 2091 miles for me......

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

I am acheing for some good raceing!
comon guys, you only live once & you can't take it with you.

Its only 2091 miles for me......

Hi Thud
Does Etard still have your race bike? The Pirelli ML75 tires are approved to race on.
Do those tires fit on a standard 20" bicycle rim?

I hope to see you there.

 

[Thud]

Thats Etards race bike now...& yes the pirreli's fit right onto standard 20" bicycle rims.

a prize for furthest distance? Kool...I am looking for every excuse in the book to justify making the trip..If I can find another loony who wants to make a 5-8 day road trip I am in.

 

[liveforphysics]

Just got back from Switzerland and Germany, going to be in Hong Kong sometime in October, but I will try to make sure I finish the work up early so I get back in-time.

Pirelli ML75 tires it is then. It's a tire that is safe for the loads of powered bicycle racing, and that's all I care about. Racing is inherently risky enough without needing to worry about tires shredding apart (happened to me twice on bicycle tires now).


No regulations on having a good brake setup I hope? I've got a drawer of warped, cracked, and/or folded downhill mt.bike bicycle rotors that tells me bicycle brakes are NOT safe for aggressive powered racing.


I will bring something as light as I can make it while not exceeding 11hp, not running more than the Pirelli ml75 tires on bicycle rims, and of course having functional pedals.

Hopefully I'm back in-country by the 22nd.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Pirelli ML75 tires it is then. It's a tire that is safe for the loads of powered bicycle racing, and that's all I care about. Racing is inherently risky enough without needing to worry about tires shredding apart (happened to me twice on bicycle tires now).

No regulations on having a good brake setup I hope? I've got a drawer of warped, cracked, and/or folded downhill mt.bike bicycle rotors that tells me bicycle brakes are NOT safe for aggressive powered racing.

I will bring something as light as I can make it while not exceeding 11hp, not running more than the Pirelli ml75 tires on bicycle rims, and of course having functional pedals.

There are no regulations on brakes right now, but the spirit of Socal Motor Bicycle Racing is to keep the bikes resembling bicycles and not turning them into Motorcycles.

It is all about racing bicycles that have motors added.

The 11 hp figure is for Gas powered bikes based on the 11.3 hp a water cooled Morini
makes and I am not quite sure yet how that is going to equate to an eBike that can make
a flat 11 hp curve from low rpm to full rpm.
Aside from 2 Morinis there was only one 4 stroke bike with a CVT that made about 11 hp
at the first Willow Springs race.

Sorry if that all sounds a little vague and anyone planning to build a gas or eBike that is
pushing the class limits should run it by me first.

The #81 20? hp gas bike will be in the Unlimited Class that will probably have very few
entries and will not be racing against all the other classes in the Ultimate Race.

SoSauty is going to be helping decide how to deal with high hp eBikes and I would welcome
input from ebikers like Thud.

 

[Jay64]

To me it sounds like the name Ultimate Race should be held for the unlimited class. Just run what you brung regardless of hp etc.
It looks like I will be able to make this event, at least schedule wise. Now I just have to get busy building a fast ebike. I think I have almost everything I need in house, execpt a few of the actual bicycle bits.
Just curious, any chance of making one race be with adding in the couple of supermoto corners and jump? That would be extra fun!

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Here are the 5 Motor Race Classes + Unlimited Class.
This is also the race order with eBikes first.

All entries must have functioning pedals.

1) eBike:

generally <9K peak input, 8.1K output almost 11 electric hp
dual motors sum <9K
Turnigy's, Colossus, Astros, others,
<9K input for hubbies C9s, 53XXs, Stoke Monkey, BMC, others

No real motorcycle tires allowed. Bicycle tires only.

2) 4 Stroke:
Robin Subaru 25cc and Honda GX 25 cc
Robin Subaru 35cc and Honda GX 35 cc
Honda 49 cc GXH and Huasheng 49 cc clone Titan 49.4 cc Super Titan 49.4 cc
Any other 4 strokes less than 50 cc

The <35 cc 4 strokes will be a 4 stroke subclass with their own winner.

No limits on motor modifications, Shifter kits are ok,
No real motorcycle tires allowed. Bicycle tires only.

3) 2 Stroke:
48 cc to 66 cc aka 80 Chinese bicycle motors.

2 groups run because of large number of entries.

No limits on motor modifications, Shifter kits are ok,
No real motorcycle tires allowed. Bicycle tires only.

4) >50cc Mid Range Class:
Harbor Freight 79 cc Greyhound
Harbor Freight 99 cc Predator
Honda GX 100
Honda GX 160
Whizzer 136cc
Pit Bike Cag 4+ hp 2 stroke
GP 460 47cc 4.5 hp 2 stroke
Briggs & Stratton 5 hp
Morini 5.8 hp 2 stroke

5) Gas Bikes <11 hp:
9 hp Morini
11 hp water cooled Morini
Harbor Freight 6.5 hp or similar

No real motorcycle tires allowed. Bicycle tires only.

The first 5 to 7 finishers from the above 5 Classes will race
against each other in The Ultimate Race.

UNLIMITED Gas OR eBike Class
Includes any motorized bicycles that are over 12 hp and don't
fit in any the other classes but meet a few basic common
sense rules like functioning pedals and still resemble bicycles.

Multi speed shiftable motorcycle engines are in this class.
Motorcycle tires are in this class.

Exceptions may be made to the above classes at the race
organizers discretion [That's me] and the list will be updated as needed.

Racer's feedback is welcomed to define these classes more.

 

[Jay64]

Can we enter in more than one class? Not saying that I will make anything badass enough to need it, but it might be cool to swap out rims and run motorcycle tires in the unlimted race to see what difference it might make.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Can we enter in more than one class? Not saying that I will make anything badass enough to need it, but it might be cool to swap out rims and run motorcycle tires in the unlimted race to see what difference it might make.

Are you going to come all the way from Florida?

Yes, you can enter in more than one class.
It's $10 more this race to enter a second class.
No one has asked to run in 3 classes yet.

Your bike has to qualify for the 2nd class. [ See the 1 through 5 definitions above ]

There were about 6 guys that raced 2 different bikes in 2 classes at the first Willow Springs race.

it's 58 days to go to race day and I still have to post a lot of info like required safety
equipment, entry payment, etc.

 

[Jay64]

I'm trying to work out some details right now, but yes, I do want to try to come from Florida.

 

[SoSauty]

Way to be Jay. We'll roll out the Red Carpet for you There's several folks here that can assist if you plan to ship your bike and fly. Someone will scope out a few inexpensive motels by 10/22 as well (there's camping at trac). I'm picking up a few registration fees for out of staters so consider your registration paid for. Is that 2 races or 3 or 4 you wish to run

The super moto concept sounds neat. Our bike builds have mostly taken on road racing traits, and we've not tried the dirt track/motored bike event . . . yet. If there's a place to swing infield onto a supermoto jump, will that drag dirt onto the asphalt?
Possibly some reasons not to do any dirt, kinda depends on the track operators and Neil MBRacing(promoter/organizer) the guy that'll answer that. If it can be done on the fringes of the schedule sometime, the event tends to be sorta laidback, maybe a few folks would get a kick out of 'SuperMoto Biking."

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

I'm trying to work out some details right now, but yes, I do want to try to come from Florida.

How are you going to ship your bike?

Camping is free in the pits at the track for Friday and Saturday night and is
where the party will be.

One of the race sponsors Manic Mechanic is in Florida too and wants to send
a hotted up Chinese 66 cc kit bike to the race and he is looking for a rider to
race it at Grange.
The bike will have his custom CNCed parts on it that Jim sells at http://www.mmbikeparts.com.

 

[drewjet]

Jay,

I hope you will be able to make it out there. You driving or flying? I might be able to join you, of course my bike isn't ready. I have slowly been accumulating all the pieces, it would be possible to have it ready by Oct thou.

 

[Jay64]

If I go, I will probably be driving out and I will bring the bike with me. I've got a big 17 passenger van that I use for my Harley Racing. Drewjet, if you want to go, I can drive you out, I can bring your bike back, but I probably won't be driving back to Florida for a couple weeks. So you might have to fly home, but at least I can bring your bike back, so you don't have to ship it. Unless you need to have your bike back as soon as you get back. If you bike isn't ready yet, you are still ahead of me. :lol: :lol: The only ebikes I have built right now are frock motored cruising bikes. I have a ton of parts for building stuff, I just need to get a plan together on what I will build. (Maybe I'll throw an Agni in there. :lol: :lol: :lol: j/k) I will probably be able to bring Manic Mechanics 66cc bike too if they want. I might even be able to ride it for them too if they want. What part of Florida are they in?
Riding the supermoto section of the track does definately drag a little bit of dirt onto the the track right after the portion that goes from dirt back to asphalt. When you are doing supermoto, it isn't that bad because you are going from full dirt to only partial dirt, so it is actually getting better. But if you are running it during the course of the day with pure asphalt laps it could be a problem. You would probably have to do it at the very end of the day so that classes that are only running on the asphalt will not have to go back on track. But it would be hard to have a race with no practice. Especially if guys are not used to doing supermoto tracks. Maybe do a later event just for that, or even possibly get in connection with the supermoto guys and have a powered bicycle race in their event.
So what is this event officially called, Socal Motor Bicycle Racing? I was talking with a potential sponsor and they were asking what it was called.

 

[Jay64]

Btw, I know you want to really keep this as a bicycle race, but I was wondering if it will be legal to have any type of slipsteam body work or bubbles in the front. I know this would probably really make them look like they were no longer bicycles. But figured that I need to at least ask.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Btw, I know you want to really keep this as a bicycle race, but I was wondering if it will be legal to have any type of slipsteam body work or bubbles in the front. I know this would probably really make them look like they were no longer bicycles. But figured that I need to at least ask.

The only existing rules have been stated in the motor class definitions above.
Anything else is open to experimentation and innovation.

Fairings and streamlining is approved and encouraged. Bicycles with small
motors need all the help they can get. I have a kids chopper bike that I want
to put a 66cc 2 stroke on with a fairing.

 

[SoSauty]

Oh here we go, can barely stay up with multiple upgrades, now I gotta learn how to build a custome fairing :wink:

 

[Jay64]

Hey man, I need some technical help for building a racier ebike. All the ebikes I have built have been hub motors. I want to use one of my regular motors for this build. One question I have been having is how to get a drive sprocket on the rear wheel while maintaining the original pedal gears on the rear wheel. I want to try to get it on the opposite side of the pedal gears. Do I need to get a special rim? I've seen a few different builds, but I'm not sure if I am following exactly what they are talking about. Maybe I am just misunderstanding them. It seemed like they were talking about a crank sprocket or freewheel. But wouldn't that be the the ones by the pedals?
If we get our bikes together and you want to head out there, I can take your bike and give you a ride out there. You might have to fly back home though because I plan being a couple of weeks before I come back. But I would be able to bring your bike back with me when I do come back.

Jay