Soldering- Can You?

[The Mighty Volt]

I am rubbish at soldering.

I have seen some very good examples of it on this thread and would like to learn how to do it likewise.

Right now I own a dremel iron, and a couple of IRODA irons, all butane operated.

I also have hammerhead tip for an electric iron which I bought from Hobby King {whom I recommend}

What should I invest in next? In terms of ....irons, solder, flux, etc.

Is soldering a question of technique, or talent, or practice, or what?

Thanks.

 

[TylerDurden]

Is soldering a question of technique, or talent, or practice, or what?

A bit of all; but not too difficult in the big picture.... Small stuff gets hot fast and the reverse is also true.

Searching these fora for "Soldering Tips": Results

 

[yopappamon]

Heat control is everything in soldering. I use Weller soldering irons with adjustable temperature.

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/

Clean surfaces, resin core solder, clean tip, proper heat, experience to know when the heat is right.

 

[torker]

Yea practice x2 :wink: I wouldn't really buy anything but rosin core solder and maybe some solder wick and try on something you can afford to screw up :lol: I have never used butane torch type irons, only electric. Put the heat to the larger of two objects and try to pull the solder to the heat. A little solder on the tip will help get the conduction going.

 

[drewdiller]

Any advice for a guy with naturally shaky hands? There is something amiss with my nervous system; it is tolerable to live with, but very very fine motor skills are lost on me. Soldering to me is like brain surgery to a typical person.

Just take some diazepam or what?

 

[yopappamon]

Also, tin the pieces individually before putting them together. Melt solder into the wire, melt solder on to the other surface, then melt the two together.

 

[amberwolf]

Practice. And more practice.

Also, something that even people that are very good at soldering often forget: There must first be a very good mechanical connection between the parts (or wires) before you solder them, or the solder will not do the job it is meant to, and heating of the joint by the iron will probably not be even.

This post:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15404&p=229191
is how I recommend doing PCB soldering. Generally it can apply to most soldering, with "common sense" modifications necessary to account for whatever parts you're actually working with.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Hi all thanks for the replies.

I was trying to solder some LiFePo4 cells {18650} and what I ended up with was a massive blob of solder on the head of each battery. I was also heating the cells, probably excessively.

I did buy a hammer-head tip as I hear they are better for getting a flatter deposit of solder down onto the battery.

 

[amberwolf]

For something like that, I'd recommend a very hot and very quickly-replenishing-heat-source iron, so that you will heat just the spot you're after and do ti really really fast, then get out of there as soon as the solder has finished flowing (actually a bit before, which practice will determine the timing of), so it doens't overheat the parts.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

For something like that, I'd recommend a very hot and very quickly-replenishing-heat-source iron, so that you will heat just the spot you're after and do ti really really fast, then get out of there as soon as the solder has finished flowing (actually a bit before, which practice will determine the timing of), so it doens't overheat the parts.

Yes, true. What I realized with the Butane models is that they are simply too heavy for this kind of work. They are great for joining heavy lengths of wire, but not for delicate battery work.

I was thinking maybe something along these lines: http://cgi.ebay.ie/BK-2000-Premium-Soldering-Station-Iron-Digital-Display-/220604043291?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item335d06901b

Not too expensive and probably ideal for a beginner.

Has anyone here soldered an A123 pack?

Thanks.

 

[rkosiorek]

it should work fine. buy a couple of different size tips to handle the type of work you will be doing.

rick

 

[The Mighty Volt]

yeah, last time I tried to do the batteries was with a tip for PCB work. I bevelled it and found it worked better but that it ran so hot that it atomised the solder. The solder actually caught-fire.

So, no more bevelled tips......

 

[Metallover]

If you're joining two pieces of wire, use the Western Union Splice. Don't forget to slide some shrink onto the wire first!

 

[tycreek]

I use a basic Weller 80W iron for stained glass to solder my battery cells (SPG80L). I got a spot welder for a while to rebuild some dewalt packs but my results were mixed, more of a hassle, took up too much space etc... so I sold it. My experience with spot welds is that they didn't stand up to vibration and shock as well as cells I soldered. I know that a "good" spot weld is of course better than solder ... but I wasn't always getting good spot welds in factory purchased packs or by doing them myself.

The issue with soldering cells is that the heat can degrade the cell, so the key for the least impact to the cell's integrity is to balance getting a good connection with the least amount of thermal transfer (this is why spot welding is supposed to be better).

I scruff the surface with sandpaper, wipe with alcohol and then tin each surface. The all important cell top takes some practice but also needs a hot enough iron to allow quick local heat and without enough heat no amount of practice will help. The cell SHOULD NOT get hot except right where the solder goes. A good tin will have a nice smooth even transition from edges. Not hot enough, too quick or too much solder on tip leaves more of a ball type tinned spot. If _ is the surface and / or ( is the tinned solder spot, _/ is a good edge and this _( is not. I couldn't get a good tin patch of solder on cells without getting the cell hot with my fancy 35w iron stations (regardless of tip used), until I doubled the watts of the iron. I would suggest nothing less than 65w.

Another thing that worked for me is that I used fine flux core solder usually for IC to board type work. I touch the solder end back and forth between the surface and the iron tip because a little solder on the tip helps speed up the thermal transfer. As soon as the solder I'm trying to feed flows onto the surface vs. the iron tip, I pull the iron and feed the needed solder before the patch cools. Sort of a melt, no melt, melt, no melt, melt, melt & feed & pull'it deal. I found it more difficult when using thick solder to find good timing of the tip removal.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I use a basic Weller 80W iron for stained glass to solder my battery cells (SPG80L). I got a spot welder for a while to rebuild some dewalt packs but my results were mixed, more of a hassle, took up too much space etc... so I sold it. My experience with spot welds is that they didn't stand up to vibration and shock as well as cells I soldered. I know that a "good" spot weld is of course better than solder ... but I wasn't always getting good spot welds in factory purchased packs or by doing them myself.

The issue with soldering cells is that the heat can degrade the cell, so the key for the least impact to the cell's integrity is to balance getting a good connection with the least amount of thermal transfer (this is why spot welding is supposed to be better).

I scruff the surface with sandpaper, wipe with alcohol and then tin each surface. The all important cell top takes some practice but also needs a hot enough iron to allow quick local heat and without enough heat no amount of practice will help. The cell SHOULD NOT get hot except right where the solder goes. A good tin will have a nice smooth even transition from edges. Not hot enough, too quick or too much solder on tip leaves more of a ball type tinned spot. If _ is the surface and / or ( is the tinned solder spot, _/ is a good edge and this _( is not. I couldn't get a good tin patch of solder on cells without getting the cell hot with my fancy 35w iron stations (regardless of tip used), until I doubled the watts of the iron. I would suggest nothing less than 65w.

Another thing that worked for me is that I used fine flux core solder usually for IC to board type work. I touch the solder end back and forth between the surface and the iron tip because a little solder on the tip helps speed up the thermal transfer. As soon as the solder I'm trying to feed flows onto the surface vs. the iron tip, I pull the iron and feed the needed solder before the patch cools. Sort of a melt, no melt, melt, no melt, melt, melt & feed & pull'it deal. I found it more difficult when using thick solder to find good timing of the tip removal.

Hi there, thanks for that post, full of advice.

PS what sort of a spot-welder did you have?

 

[Ypedal]

Hit up Youtube for soldering videos, i'm a visual person, if i can see someone do it i can copy the process .. reading about it often leaves gaps in the process that makes one wonder if it's right or not.. Know that not everyone on youtube does it right either DO watch many different one's and get a feel for it.

 

[tycreek]

PS what sort of a spot-welder did you have?

It was a Unitek 125 watt-second ... a bit underpowered for batteries IMO...

No matter... it was fun while I had it!

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Hit up Youtube for soldering videos, i'm a visual person, if i can see someone do it i can copy the process .. reading about it often leaves gaps in the process that makes one wonder if it's right or not.. Know that not everyone on youtube does it right either DO watch many different one's and get a feel for it.

Yes....I tried that and it is something I would seek to rely on in future. One guy was using a hammerhead to solder some A123 and there was a whole bunch of posts underneath his video telling him he was doing it wrong and that blocking the vent hole with Solder was a major no-no.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

PS what sort of a spot-welder did you have?

It was a Unitek 125 watt-second ... a bit underpowered for batteries IMO...

No matter... it was fun while I had it!

What a beast.

 

[Gordon]

Any advice for a guy with naturally shaky hands? There is something amiss with my nervous system; it is tolerable to live with, but very very fine motor skills are lost on me. Soldering to me is like brain surgery to a typical person.

Just take some diazepam or what?

Just say no

 

[The Mighty Volt]

"smoke a bowl"

 

[amberwolf]

Any advice for a guy with naturally shaky hands? There is something amiss with my nervous system; it is tolerable to live with, but very very fine motor skills are lost on me. Soldering to me is like brain surgery to a typical person.

I have a similar problem, and oddly enough, caffeine/sugar helps for a few minutes. So when i really need to smooth my reactions I can drink some sugared tea, or soda, and after 10-15 minutes my handshakes will be minimal for a little bit.

After that, they get worse than before for a while, though. :lol:

Mostly I just try to brace my wrists and/or forearms against the table or other solid unmoving objects when working, to minimize it. What I hate most about it is it's unpredictability, as I may have zero problems, or I might have jitters of several millimeters!

 

[The Mighty Volt]

If you want to beat shaking in your hands get a soft punchbag and pound it till your hands are tender. Any shaking or nervousness you had before will abate as your breath comes back and your heart settles down.

 

[fechter]

Another really important point is to make sure the surfaces to be joined are free of oxides. For small stuff, the flux usually takes care of this. Sanding the end of cells, for example, is good to expose a fresh metal surface. Tinning the parts first ensures they both have a fresh surface and will allow better heat conduction for a faster joint.

For cell ends, the idea is to get it up to the melting point of the solder as quickly as possible to complete the joint in the shortest possible time. The longer you hold the iron to the cell, the further the heat travels. If you can complete the joint in less than a few seconds, the heat sensitive plastic insulator/seal on the end won't have time to melt. If you can't get it to work in a few seconds, back off and let it completely cool before attempting it again.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Another really important point is to make sure the surfaces to be joined are free of oxides. For small stuff, the flux usually takes care of this. Sanding the end of cells, for example, is good to expose a fresh metal surface. Tinning the parts first ensures they both have a fresh surface and will allow better heat conduction for a faster joint.

For cell ends, the idea is to get it up to the melting point of the solder as quickly as possible to complete the joint in the shortest possible time. The longer you hold the iron to the cell, the further the heat travels. If you can complete the joint in less than a few seconds, the heat sensitive plastic insulator/seal on the end won't have time to melt. If you can't get it to work in a few seconds, back off and let it completely cool before attempting it again.

Yes, I have been told to invest in some scotchbrite pads and steel wool.