speeding tickets on bikes

[justadad1957]

anyone been stopped for speeding. my son was pulled over this morning on his way to work cop just wanted to know how long he could keep going that fast had him on radar at 37mph in a 25 school zone running 2 stop signs reckless driving ect. we live in a small town of 5000 and he was lucky to get off with a warning. this was on a non motorized bike he did have a 20 mph tailwind and slightly downhill run. sure hope this dosent set us up for problems once my conversion kits finally get here

 

[chroot]

Must be over zealous or bad day cop's mood. WOW, I never stopped by any cops when I ride fast electric bike with 74v nominal 20S2P LiPo and I ride my ebike accompany my niece to the elementary school everyday. Seldom, The cops sitting watch school's street and didn't bother us at all.

 

[amberwolf]

Break the traffic laws (running stop signs, exceeding the speed limit, etc) and expect to be stopped and ticketed, as it would be as deserved as if you were in a car. On the road, traffic laws are traffic laws, whether you agree with them or not.

Regarding speeding, there are two separate limits. The first is the posted road speed limit, which can't be exceeded whether you are on a pedal bike or one with an assist. The second is the limit for operating your assisted bike, which almost always is less than the posted speed limit (which I think is silly, but law is law until it is changed).

Depending on where you are breaking the latter won't result in a speeding ticket, but rather one (or more) for breaking whatever laws govern the differences between bicycles and motorcycles/etc. Sometimes that is over $1000 in tickets or other fines/punishments, because the ticketing officer may write it up as driving without a license, insurance, registration, etc., depending on local laws about it.

The problem is compounded a bit by the fact that just because you have a motor on the bike doesn't mean you are using it when going faster than the motorized-use limit (usually 20mph), but still less than the posted speed limit. Granted, most cyclists aren't going to be faster than 20mph for very long on the flats, but it's perfectly legal (assumng posted limit is higher and no other local laws prohibit it).

However, mostly, you'll never be bothered regarding that latter speed limit, as long as you are obeying all the posted limits, riding normally with traffic by the rules, etc. Break other traffic rules or ride hazardously and all bets are off.

 

[justadad1957]

I agree with you and I hope the local cops wont have to stop my son again maybe he can slow it down some but he is still young and feels that his bike has no speed limit other than how good of shape he is in lol esp when he is late for work its only 1 mile away so he can kinda sprint there pretty easy in under 3 mins he times his trips back and forth a few times every day usally just over 20mph avg speed for round trips

I am looking forward to installing my low speed rear geared kit i think ill be happy with it

but my son and I have become fans of the death race stuff he thinks it would be a way fun thing to do next year with hopefully enuf time to build a much faster bike ie > 50mph the problem might be while building and testing we are going to be breaking the law by just having over 750watts and capible of way over the 20 mph powered limit

so i am thinking fly low and just keep our heads down or what do other builders do

 

[amberwolf]

Regarding power and speed limits on ebikes, it depends on the local law regarding how they're applied. In AZ, AFAICR, it doesn't matter if the bike is *capable* of more than 20MPH, only whether it is "operated at" more than 20MPH. Might be similar where you are.

Power limits...well, depending on local laws, you can set a power limit in your controller or in a cycle analyst or in homebrew hardware, in a number of ways, yet still have a multi-KW system on there. Being unable to use more than whatever the limit is makes it the same as not having any more than that.

Of course, if you have something that allows overriding that as you ride, it'd be cheating, and if caught could cause you problems, depending on local laws and whatnot.

Around here, there are lots of cyclists, almost all on regular bikes, that create some of the problems all cyclists have with other people in traffic, attitude-wise. They don't obey traffic rules or lights or signs, ride on the wrong side of the road, weave around cars in slow traffic, ride fast on sidewalks ignoring pedestrians, etc. Wouldn't really be a problem except A) it pisses off the people that *do* obey the rules, both in cars, on bikes, and walking, and B) it causes accidents and gets people hurt and killed--not always the ones that are in the wrong, either.

On various bicycles, both assisted and not, I've been hit from behind by cyclists that expected me to run a light or a stop sign, both back before I started using markers, brake lights, and turn signals, and after, because the cyclists aren't paying attention to traffic any more than much of traffic is paying attention to them. I've also nearly run over cyclists that just go right thru intersections when it's not their right of way, or just hopped off the sidewalk in front of me, etc.

It's not something that happens every day (to me), but often enough it more than irks me. And I see them do it all over the place, just like drivers in cars and trucks and motorcycles--they all do stupid things that break the rules/laws/common sense/courtesy/etc. Some of those things are harmless 99.99% of the time, but that one other time it gets someone hurt or killed. And probably wouldn't have happened if the rules had been being followed by all involved.

All of the accidents or near-accidents I've ever been involved in have been caused by others breaking those rules, and me being unable to predict that, and get out of the way or stop. Some of those rule-breakings were as simple as a truck stopping in a no-stopping-anytime zone to let their kids out to go play. There was traffic all around, and me almost ending up underneath the truck that stopped because of being unable to stop in time nor having anywhere I could go around. Not 10 feet further down is a driveway to go into the parking lot of the place she let the kids out to go into, and she could have easily turned and gone in then.

What is infuriatingly stupid is that after she let them out then she DID go into that driveway, to go park. She could have been hit by another car, as the kids were getting out, killing the kids if not her, if I hadn't been the vehicle behind her. Apparently she didn't care enough about those kids to think about that.

 

[dingoEsride]

37 mph in a school zone is pretty fast, if I were a copper I would have nabbed him, a kid coming out could be killed and a bike is harder to see, no matter how powerful your vehicle is, be it ebike or car whatever, safety to others is still your responsibility

 

[dogman dan]

Good luck holdin back the kid, but maybe he'll at least slow down for a school in the future. I got the same lecture once at about 14.

See ya at the race!

 

[liveforphysics]

Kid on a regular pedal bicycle riding with the wind.

If you were to have be written a ticket, take it to court. A tiny town judge might not throw it out, so keep appealing until you get to a real court, they will throw it out.

***also, only a clown court would ever count a radar reflection off a bicycle/rider as admisible evidence. If they pace you, then it would count, but then they are being a greater hazard in the given situation. Make sure your kid knows to always say he wasn't speeding to a cop no matter what the situation, and to never volenteer any additional input, yet be polite and friendly.

 

[SilverSurfer]

I just got a warning, but it wasnt necessarily for speeding, though I was a little, it was for being on an electric bicycle on the Pinellas Trail. STERN warning! LOL Gonna miss that ride! SS

 

[liveforphysics]

They have a specific law against ebikes or bikes there? Did they have some way to prove your bike didn't meet whatever definitions they set to be legally an ebike, and treated exactly as a pedal bicycle?

I just got a warning, but it wasnt necessarily for speeding, though I was a little, it was for being on an electric bicycle on the Pinellas Trail. STERN warning! LOL Gonna miss that ride! SS

 

[justadad1957]

man we live in such a small town lol seems like most of the town already knows about my sons run in there is a good number of people here that want to try a speed run just to beat his 37 mph

more and more people are riding bikes in town just for running those quick trips to the store saw one guy at the grocery store last night with some really nice rear side baskets looked like they should hold 2 full sacks on each side and he did a real nice job of mounting them very solid looking

we have way too many cops in our small town most/some of the younger ones think that a speed trap might be set up for fun sometime but not at 800 in the morning, one of the older officers is dead set against it

there are alot of http://ragbrai.com/ riders around here who think they are fast my son just turned 23 and is in way better shape than me the cadence to get to 37 is beyond me and without the awesome tailwind he had that morning will prove almost impossible for any of our local guys to compete with... maybe

 

[SilverSurfer]

They have a specific law against ebikes or bikes there? Did they have some way to prove your bike didn't meet whatever definitions they set to be legally an ebike, and treated exactly as a pedal bicycle?

There is specific law, and the definitions are clear. I knew it was against the law. But Im handicapped, so I figured Id have a decent argument, regular bicycle not an option. They said wheel chair is the only powered vehicle approved for the Pinellas Trail. Ive seen bicycle police on the trail before, but never before 9am or after 6pm. This was at 8am. I think someone had complained, Ive had a couple folks vocalize some distaste even though I dont speed around people. Of course, I get greif on the street too, whooptie do. But the police....their greif I cant take! LOL On the streets their big kick is lights. I got that.

 

[dingoEsride]

Theres nothing wrong with going fast in the right places and time, but he should be taught to be carefull when others could be at risk of being hurt

 

[tostino]

I wonder how that law against electric bikes would hold up in court? Doesn't that try to designate an electric bicycle as something other than a bicycle to disallow it? In essence, that is about the same as saying "If your bike has more than 15 speeds, you are not allowed to ride it on the trail".

 

[justadad1957]

well public streets are not the same as trails

still just thinking lol maybe just alittle more common sense

 

[Rassy]

SS, Florida law is similar to Oregon in that a "legal" electric assist bicycle is still just a bicycle. One difference in Florida, they have a requirement that the seats highest position must be a minimum of 25", thus eliminating most recumbent trikes.

http://www.veloteq.com/laws_florida_electric_bicycles.htm

Here is an excerpt from the above:

(2) BICYCLE.--Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle.

In Oregon, the law actually states that a "legal" electric assist bicycle can not be excluded from areas that allow regular bicycles except by an ordinance (i.e., the City Council or whatever that has jurisdiction must pass a law that specifically excludes electric assist bicycles on such and such a trail that allows regular bicycles). I would have to search to find the exact words again.

 

[SilverSurfer]

I wonder how that law against electric bikes would hold up in court? Doesn't that try to designate an electric bicycle as something other than a bicycle to disallow it? In essence, that is about the same as saying "If your bike has more than 15 speeds, you are not allowed to ride it on the trail".

True that, we need a lawyer here now. LOL Maybe NOT! But then, how would a shark fare in a pool full of electric eels? SSSHHIZGET! Yup, be begging for mercy! In order to fight it in court, it would have to be proven un constitutional or discriminatory. Since its against ANY motorized vehicle other than handicap specific mobility devices, I dont think I would win. The trail laws are local, not state. State laws do diferentiate bicycles by power/speed capabilities.

(2) BICYCLE.--Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle.

(77) MOPED.--Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power, having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels; with a motor rated not in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground; and with a power-drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting gears by the operator after the drive system is engaged. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters.

(22) MOTORCYCLE.--Any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, but excluding a tractor or a moped.

So, florida STATE law, doesnt diferentiate a bicycle from e-bike that is under 20mph. A 500w ebike on the trail could stand a chance in court. My 7,200+ watt ebike.....not quite legal, by state def. I have an electric motorcycle....with pedals. I could try to say Im not all that. its only slightly obvious I have something good under the hood. Well, GM has 48v 1000w stamped right into the hub.

Guesse I'll stay off the trail, it wouldnt take much investigation to know what this bike is about. So far Ive had it up to 49mph/79kph! Got nervous but still had throttle, need a better smooth run to max out. I know some of yall are way faster, Im good! Dont need more top end, just more start torque, and more AH.

SS

 

[Rassy]

Well yes, since your ride doesn't qualify as a "legal" electric assist bicycle all this legal stuff is meaningless. But just for a final point, when a sign says no "motorized" vehicles, that does not include a "legal" electric assist bicycle. Most people, and probably many law enforcement types are not aware of this distinction.

 

[SilverSurfer]

These definitions ARE from STATE laws, enforced by The County Sheriff. The trail is NOT public roadway, and therefore NOT subject to State Highway Regulation. So the definitions are mute. The Pinellas Trail is under the juristiction of Pinellas County Parks. Each park has is own rules enforced by a combination of city police within a specific border and park rangers. Again, would realy need an actual lawyer to know what grounds we could stand on to contest use of electrics within the 20mph limit. Over that, I dont think you could ever stand a chance, as even state law says its no longer a bicycle. SS

 

[geekybiker]

One thing to check for if you can't find electric reference in your local/state law is to look at electric "toys" You know things like go-peds and mini-bikes. Often the regulations for them are written such that an electric bike would be covered by them.

 

[FeralDog]

SilverSurfer:
If you are bonafied "handicapped" (ie: dis-abled) you may have a case with strong merit.
IF that trail used any Federal money, or IF Florida law strongly bars discrimination of the handicapped with regards to certain designs and "funding' of projects" , well --- in short, they may be discriminating against ALL handicapped people on that trail who require 'assistance' of an electric bicycle.

 

[SilverSurfer]

SilverSurfer:
If you are bonafied "handicapped" (ie: dis-abled) you may have a case with strong merit.

I have been in a couple bad motorcycle accidents and my knees have been operated on three times, I dont have a handicaped sticker, hell, dont even have a car or a licence. But my knees make it hard to pedal a great distance. Im actually pretty strong. I can pedal this heavily laden eBike 4 to 6 miles with no help. I used to pedal 30 miles a day though! And I work 10 miles from home, 50 yrs old, 400 lbs. If I dont have electric assistance, Id be on the bus or in a cab. Actually, I could pedal a regular bike the whole ten, but Y PEDAL! LOL I'll just stick to the streets where as long as youre reasonable and have lights they could give a rats patootie!

I have been in the bike lane on the streets doin 35 mph and had cops go by without a second look. 5 more blocks up, they got a regular bike pulled over for no lights. And he MAY have been riding on the sidewalk! ? Thats where they had him hemmed up. LOL I learned about the cops and lights on bikes at night down here long ago. They REALLY dont like bikes at night with no lights! But its not just dangerous for the bike enthusiest, when they dont have lights they tend to ride the sidwalks, and this is a heavily populated city, sidewalks get used by alot of pedestrians, even at night, very busy. Except in the hood, the sidwalks are desolate in the south side back streets at night.........vewy scawey!

 

[morph999]

he's worried about a bicycle? when was the last recorded death from a bicycle hitting a pedestrian?

 

[dogman dan]

You can be pretty messed up and not be even near the definition of handicapped. I'm a good example, between 25 years framing houses and extreme skiing on the weekends, I can barely stand a 4 hour workday now. But I have no idea I could claim to be handicapped yet. I can still do anything, but not all day anymore.

 

[amberwolf]

One difference in Florida, they have a requirement that the seats highest position must be a minimum of 25", thus eliminating most recumbent trikes.

Actually, it reads the opposite of the way you're interpreting it, but the same way you stated it--it can't be *higher* than 25", which eliminates tallbikes but not recumbents.

One thing to check for if you can't find electric reference in your local/state law is to look at electric "toys" You know things like go-peds and mini-bikes. Often the regulations for them are written such that an electric bike would be covered by them.

Just be careful about trying to get your bike classed ad a "toy" like that. Lots of places those toys are not allowed on the roads or public ways, so you could wind up eliminating all bikes like yours from road use (and possibly trails/sidewalks/park paths) that way.