Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 12kW

[ridethelightning]

would have to agree there 8)
very tidy sale threads too.
this one will go far

 

[ridethelightning]

Thx Luke!

Brentis, when you go 120km/h and slow down to 80 the difference in speed and wind resistance is huge, so it feels like you are crusing very slow in comparison. The bike is very stable so I have no problem in letting go in Cruise control mode(adaptto) at 85(was 85km/h in the video) on a flat.

Ohbse, funny you should ask about the cells. I added a pic about my breaker for the battery pack.
The cells are great performers, sag is minimal, I see around 4-5V sag at 11kW.
Yup Additional parallel strips are added to put less stress on the cells. Andrey used 0,3mm nickel strip, really hevay duty compared to regular 0,1.
8AWG wire is used together with xt150 connectors.
Do not have variable regen, just the stock on/off, kind of used by it now, especially with my riding style in the trails - you need all or nothing.

But I encountered some problems after about 15 cycles. I found two bad parallel strings. They slowly loose voltage at rest.
I had to cut the strip and look for a dud cell that was causing it.
View attachment 2

I did not want to break the hole string so I cut 3 at a time and let it rest for a few hours and then measure to see if it was some of them that I isolated
Finally found the bad guy after isolating 9 out of 14. This cell was loosing voltage rapidly. From 4,2 down to 1,5 in 24 hours. I could even feel that it was a bit warmer than the rest.
View attachment 1

One more parallel string to go now
Here is number 3 wich I have to look at. This one drops the voltage not as fast as the first one.
View attachment 3
I have one spare LG cell left so I really hope that this is the last one to fix. It is quite time consuming job. Don't really know what was causing this. Could be the cell itself or maybe a damage during the spotwelding.

looks like i might have a similar problem with my lg mg1 pack.
1 cell group is noticably lower than the rest, and iv tried ballence charge with hyperion, and that group took 6 hours to ballence, and still wasnt quite ballenced at the end.

so i think the adaptto could do the same job, its just theres a dud cell.

the difference is not so much, at first 0.100 volts , after ballence, 0.30 volts. but now, after sitting overnight its up to 0.038v again :|
so looks like i need to do a swaparoo somewhere.

thanks again for posting this bit Allex, as otherwise i would not know what to do...

iv thought of using my laser thermistor for finding the culprit while still connected to the rest..

 

[Allex]

Bummer, just to make sure, note the voltages of different P.strings, let the battery stay for a few days, and then look again. If that suspicious string is really faulty you should see that it dropped more than the rest.

 

[madin88]

measuring temperature of every single cell of the bad group during balancing maybe really does show which cell is faulty. good idea!
while the current over the good groups as a whole is consumed by the BMS bleed down resisitors, the current over the bad group flows more os less into the faulty cell and will be converted into heat. Thats the reason why balancing takes so long. It could be the BMS (i believe adaptto has only about 70mA) will never be able to get the pack balanced if the self discharge current exceeds the capability of the BMS resistors.

 

[ridethelightning]

thanks again for the info guys.

this is what i suspected was happening but diddnt really know.

ill see what happens after a few days. the pack is only new and maybe they will "Settle in"

this is what happened with my samsung 20R pack, at first they wouldnt ballance so well but after a few cycles, the low group improved and they are now at 0.008v difference.

 

[striker54]

If you want a simple and reliable solution(Adapttos recommendation) just install a regular apartment breaker, I use C63A, it angages at about 135 DC Amps for me and you can use whatever battery voltage.
And you can say goodbye to all prechargers, no need them anymore!
http://www.abb.com/product/seitp329/49a79353b0194401c12572ab00257544.aspx?tabKey=2&gid=ABB2CDS251001R0634&cid=9AAC100489

Allex,

you use 1 or 2 breakers?
In the picture you have 1, but adaptto recommends 2 for the max-e in the manual.

Best regards

 

[Allex]

I only use one I think it triggers first at over 130-150Amps if you drain it continuously for over 10 minutes - impossible in real world situations. But I am not totally sure about those figures.

 

[striker54]

I will try with only 1 breaker also. Thanks.

 

[madin88]

if it triggers, there also is a 100A version available
btw, can such trigger REALLY be used for precharging? some say they have not such function..

 

[Allex]

No precharge really, but I think I just buy a new one if the connectors will be bad inside, after all, they are cheap.
You can always modify the breaker to have a precharge inside, this this takes a lot of time,

 

[zener]

No precharge really, but I think I just buy a new one if the connectors will be bad inside, after all, they are cheap.
You can always modify the breaker to have a precharge inside, this this takes a lot of time,

Using no precharge not only damages your connectors but also the capacitors in your controller after some time.

 

[riba2233]

Adding precharge is easy, just connect 6k8 5w resistor parallel to the switch.

 

[Cicada]

Plenty of info here, nice.

 

[Sean9002]

Adding precharge is easy, just connect 6k8 5w resistor parallel to the switch.

Sorry to ask a silly question, but my bike needs something similar.
So the resistor is bypassing the switch to allow a very small amount of draw through?
or does the resistor become active once the switch is switched?.... yep I can hear your eyes rolling already
\
thanks
-Sean

 

[izeman]

The precharge resistor is connected first and then the main contactor. The resistor can stay in place as the current goes through the switch as it has a smaller resistance as the resistor.
So the resistor does NOT stay connected all the time. This world drain your battery.

 

[striker54]

Bypass the main switch with the pre charge resistor but in serial with a push-button switch (momentary) and you have no drain in the battery
To power on push the button, wait 1 or 2 seconds and then the turn on the main switch.



You also should use a fuse inline with the main switch, or forget it if you use a dc breaker.

Sorry for the quality of the digitalization.

 

[riba2233]

It allows current to flow past the switch, enough to charge up the capacitors, but not enough to turn on the system. And when you turn on the switch, you short the resistor and the current goes through the switch which has a very small resistance, few mohm. Without resistor, capacitors would draw a very high current after you turn on the switch, and that can slowly destroy capacitors and maybe even the whole controller.

Bypass the main switch with the pre charge resistor but in serial with a push-button switch (momentary) and you have no drain in the battery
To power on push the button, wait 1 or 2 seconds and then the turn on the main switch.



You also should use a fuse inline with the main switch, or forget it if you use a dc breaker.

Sorry for the quality of the digitalization.

With this method you can forget to turn on the precharge (unless you have some two step switch), and it's not as elegant to have two switches. If you have a relatively large resistor, current draw while the system is off is really small. I've measured around 3 mA with 6k8, 50 V battery, and kelly keb48201 controller. Sure, you have to watch and make sure that the battery does not get empty, but I have 40 Ah so it would take 555 days for the full battery to get empty.

 

[striker54]

With this method you can forget to turn on the precharge

riba2233 i can assure you that you only will forget that 1 or 2 times because it makes a large pop :lol: :lol:
After that you don't forget anymore to push the button first and then the main switch.

But yeah, you are right, we can have the precharge resistor all time connected because the controller as a low consumption.

 

[izeman]

Even if the current is only around some mA when off, this can be critical if you have some led power supply attached. Combine that with an empty 10Ah battery and you're far away from 500+ days.

 

[riba2233]

All other systems should have their switch that can cut off all load. And you shouldn't keep your battery totally empty. Also, there is bms. Best solution would be to have 2-step switch that switches on precharge first, and then the main switch.

 

[madin88]

Best solution would be to have 2-step switch that switches on precharge first, and then the main switch.

as example the golden motor controllers have this integrated. if you apply power to the ignition wire, it first does precharge the caps and after 2sec the controller applies power to the main contactor.

personally i see no reason to install such house circuit brakers if they cannot precharge. if they could than YES.
using a simple fuse and bullet connectors with integrated antispark function (Jeti 4mm or 5,5mm bullets) is cheaper and smaller.
the consumption of the controller caps alone anyway is neglible so only a small switch for ignition is needed. with Adaptto you need nothing except the battery is completely empty and one does not charge it for a year..

 

[Allex]

How often do you break the connection if you are worrying about precharge? During the whole summer a did use the breaker twice when I actually removed the battery. Otherwise it is always on.

 

[\/ampa]

How often do you break the connection if you are worrying about precharge? During the whole summer a did use the breaker twice when I actually removed the battery. Otherwise it is always on.

What happens when the capacitors are always charged ?

 

[Allex]

It is like having a Server live 24/7. It will break eventually. I would say 1-100 years =)

"I've heard it argued that keeping the caps charged all of the time keeps them 'fully formed' and thus, extends their life. While this is technically true, it is not really an issue with modern capacitors. Unless you plan on putting your controller in storage for years, the capacitors will likely outlast their associated active components (transistors and diodes) whether you keep them fully formed or not."
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/precharge-why-do-need-do-do-25419.html

 

[Allex]

Well I would say mission complete, not much more you can do to this bike, time to move on...
Honestly I was impressed when I saw the timer. Well done Adaptto, LG, Crystalyte and of course Stealth

[youtube]4YXYcD5hQkg[/youtube]