Strangest Ebay Auction

[Anonymous]

.

 

[deardancer3]

It is an interesting article, and does let people know that ebike legality is NOT an Automatic YES.

However it is quite misleading about the number of states wher ebike legality does conform to US HR727 and is ok.. vast majority of states you are ok if ....

However. dealers sellinig ebikes and saying they are legal everywhere should be corrected, they are not. NY, PENN, NJ, Hawaii are certainly problem states.

but they certainly are legal lots of places, like Washington, Colorado, california, Minn, wisconsin, VA, missouri, Iowa, and the list goes on and on.

 

[dogman dan]

That is why my bikes try to look as normal as possible, and I peadle like mad when I see cops.

 

[pwbset]

I peadle like mad when I see cops.

That's hilarious... just yesterday afternoon I was a little late getting home and thought, "I'll open'ur up just a bit and shave a minute or two off the commute". Natch that's when I passed a cop at a cross street, who totally checked me out, and thought, "Well.. better add some pedaling 'just in case'". I learned very quickly that I can't pedal at 30mph. Must have looked so stupid with my flailing legs. :lol:

He turned the other way thankfully. 8)

 

[andys]

At some point, people need to tell their states to kiss their a** If they won't allow the most efficient means of transportation that exist in their stupid state.

It costs me $64.70 to fill up my Audi today. Governments not allowing small EV's on the street in this day and age is moronic.
I'm glad I live in California, fires and gay marriage and all.

 

[fitek]

Funny, I'm actually better on an ebike than a normal bike... mostly my ebikes are slower than I am on a regular road bike. On the unassisted bike I really don't like stopping, so I blow through stop signs and lights without slowing down much. Managed to do that yesterday in front of a cop too, but he didn't seem to care thankfully.

 

[pwbset]

I learned very quickly that I can't pedal at 30mph.

I just learned that where I live in Montana the ebike law states max 2bhp (~1,500watts) and 30mph so I was fine anyway (as if the cop even knew the ebike law). Badass! Knew I should gone with a 5305 and over powered the crap out of it like DocBass! :lol: Oh well, at least I'm getting in shape and saved $100s with the 4011.

 

[mi7d1]

At some point, people need to tell their states to kiss their a** If they won't allow the most efficient means of transportation that exist in their stupid state.

A pedal bike is much more efficient than an ebike. No need for flaming me :lol: , I do understand the point that you're making.

 

[andys]

Most efficient "Motor powered" vehicle I should have said.

Does anyone have a link to web based info that lists in what states e-bikes are legal or not?

 

[andys]

I found this.

Scroll down for US stuff

http://visforvoltage.org/book-page/ev-collaborative-hand-books/1080-electric-bicycle-laws

 

[safe]

This is why I continue to stress that EVERYONE needs to be united in pushing to get the 750 watt Federal Law "respected" in all the states. There are a few "rogue states" that are holding out accepting ebikes, but the more the Federal Law is rallied around the quicker these problems will disappear.

Patience... all things of value take patience... just continue to support the Federal Law and we will all get through eventually.

Missouri is so "loose" as a state that I can run up to 3hp without pedals and it's fine. Not everyone is so lucky.

 

[TylerDurden]

Shyte, here we go again...

THERE IS NO "FEDERAL EBIKE LAW"

Federal Regulation is part of Consumer Product Safety Act

There is CPSC language regulating sales definitions. Nothing about where, how or when a bike can be operated.

The CPSC language specifically states (regarding sales), that the fed act supersedes, except where the local law is more stringent...

i.e.: You cannot sell a "bike" like safe's in MO or any other state, without declaring it a motor vehicle.

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the meaning of section 3(a)(1) and shall be subject to the Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.

 

[dogman dan]

That's why all the peadling like hell. In my state, I'm not sure if I'm illegal or a moped. Either way I try to keep it low and look like a bike all I can. The state law is confusing enough for a gas assist, and no mention at all of where electric motors stand. But in this town nowdays, you can turn left all day on a red light and never get a bust. All the cops are busy heading to a domestic disturbance all day and all night. I'm not going down to DMV untill they make me.

 

[julesa]

A pedal bike is much more efficient than an ebike.

How much did your lunch cost? How much fossil fuel was burned farming and transporting the food you ate? You probably got around seven hundred calories out of it, which you could easily burn going twenty miles on a pedal bike. An electric bike will burn around 400Wh to go the same distance. Where I live, that much electricity costs less than three cents. Of course, there are side benefits to using food as fuel, like getting your exercise and the pleasure of eating. But I think you've got to stretch pretty far to call it more efficient than an ebike.

Edit: On a related note, Justin at ebikes.ca (which seems to be down right now...?) wrote a paper on the subject:
http://www.ebikes.ca/sustainability/Ebike_Energy.pdf

 

[Knuckles]

I "fake" pedal when I ride my e chopper. The bats are hidden in the forks so it is almost pure stealth (except for hub motor, controller and throttle). The modded gear ratio I use still only allows me 15 mph of actual pedal power at reasonable cadence. When I am cruising much faster (25-30 mph) I fake pedal so I appear to be powering the chopper. It takes a little practice but after a while I just "fake" pedal along and smile and wave at folks. I generally don't wave to cops, however, but I do tend to observe all stop signs and traffic lights.

My e chopper typically will baffle everyone but once they ride it they "freak out" and say "I WANT ONE".
My other e bikes look "normal" and I also "fake" pedal them too (over 20 mph).
Fake pedaling takes some skill and is essential in NY but unfortunately I notice that it doesn't help me lose any weight.
It would be nice to actually add human watts at 30 mph and burn off some of those yummy cheeseburgers.

Isn't our US energy policy wonderful? GOD BLESS KING GEORGE!
So sad to see him go!

 

[mi7d1]

So are you trying to tell me that you don't eat when you use your ebike? It would take an awful lot of data to convince me that an ebike and it's user has a smaller carbon foot print to own and operate than a pedal bike and it's user. After all aren't you referring to the carbon foot print when you bring up transportation of food items? How are your batteries charged? How much energy was use to create the infrastructure and manufacturing to charger your batteries? I never said nor implied that it coast less to pedal only that the pedal bike uses energy more efficiently. By that I meant total input vs. output. We could go on, but I think that you and I are using different yardsticks to measure by.

A pedal bike is much more efficient than an ebike.

How much did your lunch cost? How much fossil fuel was burned farming and transporting the food you ate? You probably got around seven hundred calories out of it, which you could easily burn going twenty miles on a pedal bike. An electric bike will burn around 400Wh to go the same distance. Where I live, that much electricity costs less than three cents. Of course, there are side benefits to using food as fuel, like getting your exercise and the pleasure of eating. But I think you've got to stretch pretty far to call it more efficient than an ebike.

Edit: On a related note, Justin at ebikes.ca (which seems to be down right now...?) wrote a paper on the subject:
http://www.ebikes.ca/sustainability/Ebike_Energy.pdf

 

[julesa]

If I pedal more, I eat more. Everyone does. In this house, we obey the laws of thermodymanics, young man.

You used the word "efficient." The link I provided in my last post estimates the difference in efficiency to be 7 to 1. That can probably be reduced some by eating locally grown organics, but it's still a relatively inefficient process. All I'm saying is that there is less systemic energy loss in this process:

Sun -> evaporation -> hydroelectric dam -> high-voltage AC transport -> lithium storage -> bike power

than in this process:

Sun -> fossil fuels and photosynthesis -> fertilizer production and diesel fuel, and plant growth -> diesel powered harvestors -> manual processing, packaging -> diesel powered refrigerated transport -> refrigerated storage -> human metabolism -> bike power

 

[julesa]

To clarify: while reducing carbon footprint and other societal costs are admirable and worthwhile goals, they are not related to energy efficiency. Even in the most pro-pedal-power example possible (say, locally foraged berry and tuber fuel vs. coal power plant) you still have to show that the human metabolism is more efficient than a modern coal plant, and I'm no expert but I'd guess that's at least debatable.

 

[mi7d1]

I must admit that I hadn't read Justin's article, till now. I still stand by the yard stick that I'm using in my statement. That includes total energy in vs out. As Justin wrote:

Only the consumables of both transportation modes will be considered in the
comparison. Electric bikes have the same components of an ordinary bike, with
the addition of a motor, motor controller, battery pack, and battery charger. They
therefore have a larger up-front cost to produce. However the electric motor,
controller, and charger, are all maintenance-free with an indefinite life-span, so
beyond their initial manufacture there is little associated environmental cost. The
one component that does require replacing is the battery pack and this will be
included in all calculations.
This treatment is also ignoring all secondary effects. For instance, the health
benefits and costs of exercise will not be addressed, nor will the disposal of toxic
materials in batteries be considered. Accounting for the former would be a
complex task, while the later is less of an issue as battery recycling becomes
more commonplace.

Even he included a disclaimer of ignoring secondary effects. Granted I'm grasping at straws to save face and stretching my original conception, but I stand by my straws I did enjoy his article. Now I'm off to work on my e-assist bike which is more efficient than yours (do to it's aerodynamics)

 

[julesa]

There are some nice photos in your link -- is one of them your ride?

 

[mi7d1]

Yes, all four of my bike are posted, some more than others. It's my velomobile that brings me to E-S forums. That's the one that has e-assist on it. I use it for commuting to work. I'm getting ready to add e-assist to my Cruzbike next. I purchased a c'lyte 405 that needs repairs. As soon as that's taken care of I'm going to install the 405 in the velo and take the 406 from the velo and install it into the Cruzbike. My little Greenspeed GT3-II will remain pedal powered. I use it for taking the dogs for a walk, they like to walk slow (3.2mph) I'd like to put a fairing on the Greenspeed but it would be a waste because I don't ride quick enough for the fairing to help out. I'm hoping that with the 405 in the velomobile next year on Memorial Day e-Power Challenge I can fly down the straightaway doing 50+mph . I have a grudge to settle with a certain Easy Racer GRR That all hinges on if I can keep her in a straight line, she starts to become sensitive to steering input above 40mph

 

[recumpence]

Too funny!

I researched this for a long time as well. What I was told by my local police dept was to make teh bike stealth (even though e-bikes are legal here) to avoid being noticed. Som all my equipment is mounted under the seat on my recumbent. I was also told to obey all speed limits to avoid being noticed (funny, I can exceed the speed limit in my neghborhood with pedal power only) :wink:

I like to pedal on the flats anyway. It keeps me in shape. I also found out my top gear allows me to pedal along at 35mph, but not up at 40...........

Oh, also, the police dept told me most people will complain about my bike out of jealousy more than anything else. If they cannot have one, they will complain so I can't either.

Matt

 

[Knuckles]

And yet in NYC we have ... http://nycewheels.com/ and they have (invented?) their own e bike law just for NYC customers ...
from ... http://nycewheels.com/faq1.html
Q: Do electric bikes require a license or registration?
A: No. They are legally treated like standard bicycles, with all of the laws surrounding standard bicycles applying to them. We wouldn't recommend them for anyone under 16 years of age, however.

But realize that NYC cops could care less about e bikes (unless they try to 'unlawfully assemble' as an Irish Gay Parade protest or something).
Then the cops will 'crack skulls', lock you up and put you on a terrorist watch list.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/28/rnc.bike.protest/

From Steely Dan 'Nightfly' ... "What a beautiful world this will be ... What a glorious time to be free ..."

 

[TylerDurden]

All the vendor are fudging the writ-of-law, much like safe does.

The Dan, FTW.

 

[Knuckles]

Ha Ha. I do enjoy safe's legalese logic (I kinda agree with him btw) but you did nail him personally with this post on "explosive" BMS ...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3310&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p48005
I do enjoy that thread!

What a SWELL bunch of guys! 8)
Or should I say SWELL bunch of sausages
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4206&p=62429#p62429