Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[3DTOPO]

10-4 thanks brotha... i'll keep checking...55T seems like the way to go right?? From what I'm hearing..

I think it really depends on your local conditions. If you mostly ride steep loose stuff - you might even consider the 58T. I for one can't even get it close to 45mph around here, so I have quite a bit of room to gear it down without really crippling my top speed. If you live in flat open areas, you might not want to gear it down at all.

The X Model bike (with X Controller obviously) comes standard with a 58T, and probably what I will end up with. Which with the X Controller gives me the same top speed of 45MPH. The only reason why I haven't installed a larger sprocket yet, is I really, really like the built-in odometer (I know I can put on a bike speedometer, but, like I said, I really like the built-in one!).

 

[3DTOPO]

Sweet bro, I am there. I will bring the beer and grab some porterhouse cuts from the butcher on overland in Boise. This will be a blast.

Awesome! Looking forward to meeting you and going on a ride!

 

[motomoto]

Rix wrote:

Motomoto here on ES is the manufacture of the 55T along with the 52T and 58T, I have his newest 55T, but I don't see the 55T on his website just yet. They will be there surely as he has cut 10 sprockets in the 55T and nine should still be available.

I don't have very many so I didn't put them on the website. I have to buy a $700 sheet of 7075 to make more. I will see how
well they work out. If you want one you can PM me. I guess only the ES guys will know about the 55 tooth.

 

[Jonathan1981]

You know Jonny81, I don't think you will have any buyers remorse. Even though I am a Stealth Ebike fan through and through, I bought my SurRon and have no regrets. It augments my ebike collection very well and is a blast to ride. Its flat out the best performing ebike bang for the buck every mass produced. To make the SurRon better, there are only 2 mods that you need to make. Get a better front fork and get a 52T or 55T rear sprocket. Maybe a better set of brakes once the stock ones wear out. That is it. There is nothing else that needs to be done to this bike. You will be happy.

I know right! that's basically the conclusion I'm coming to for mods, those simple things, I'm trying to "FIND" things I want to change on it but it's basically solid out of the box...I'm only 160lbs so my thought was to throw on the CR85 forks that I use for my gas bikes but I'm starting to think I won't have to now, just from watching people jumping and realizing it's a lighter bike in general, which is awesome....I know this is going to work out, really feel good about having support out of Montreal aslo, that's a game changer, which I didn't know before purchasing and I purchased anyway.... any Canadian buyers on the east coast, Montreal has a support hub for parts etc. pretty awesome..

 

[Allex]

here are some sources for Sur-Ron replacement parts, etc (you may or may not be able to source parts china direct but at least you can see what's available) .. :

https://www.aebikes.com.au/spare-parts.html

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-parts/

http://shop.m.jd.com/?shopId=732127

Added the info to the first post:

"Speeds:
The bike will do 45 mph (72km/h) with stock gearing (48T)
With the upgraded sine-wave controller it tops out at around 52 mph (83km/h)

52 tooth Sur-ron rear sprocket gives the bike a
little more grunt with minimal loss in top speed.
42 mph(67km/h) top speed vs. 45 mph (72km/h)


58 tooth Sur-ron rear sprocket adds 20% to the acceleration and hill climbing while taking the
top speed down from 45 mph (72km/h) to 38 mph (61km/h)
With the upgraded sine-wave controller it tops out at around 45 mph (72km/h)

Motomoto here on ES is the manufacture of the 55T along with the 52T and 58T
https://www.sur-ronusa.com/shop



Spares:
https://www.aebikes.com.au/spare-parts.html

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-parts/

http://shop.m.jd.com/?shopId=732127
"

 

[Allex]

very good wheelies!

Heres is an X with MTB tire up front. 50mm rise on the handlebars.

How about a side view pic?

@ Kim, nice wheelies indeed. I can do a short "power wheelie" on mine, but I am not good at doing the wheelie the way you are with throttle, balance, and brake control.

26" up front with zefal mud guard and 60T rear sprocket.

Here is a 24" MTB up front with our lovely MTX39 rim and DURO razorback tire combo.
1kg lighter

 

[fechter]

I like the mud flaps. The one in front may impair cooling a little. OK if the weather is not hot.

 

[n2mb]

Speeds:
The bike will do 45 mph (72km/h) with stock gearing (48T)
With the upgraded sine-wave controller it tops out at around 52 mph (83km/h)

52 tooth Sur-ron rear sprocket gives the bike a
little more grunt with minimal loss in top speed.
42 mph(67km/h) top speed vs. 45 mph (72km/h)


58 tooth Sur-ron rear sprocket adds 20% to the acceleration and hill climbing while taking the
top speed down from 45 mph (72km/h) to 38 mph (61km/h)
With the upgraded sine-wave controller it tops out at around 45 mph (72km/h)

Motomoto here on ES is the manufacture of the 55T along with the 52T and 58T
https://www.sur-ronusa.com/shop

What do you think for optimal gearing with the Supermoto wheelset?

Seems like it comes with a 42 tooth, vs the stock 48t but maintains the same gear ratio because of the smaller tires.

So, maybe the stock 48T would be good with the smaller tires? (42 /48) * 55 = 48
or perhaps if 58T is good with the X controller, 52T might be good with the super moto wheels and the X?

 

[BCTECH]

will there be a big different in performance if swapping the suspension (front and rear) to Fox, Dorado or equivalent
anyone done that can comment?

 

[bigbore]

Here is a 24" MTB up front with our lovely MTX39 rim and DURO razorback tire combo.
1kg lighter

Beautiful .....
This front mud guard is the best I saw so far:

 

[macribs]

will there be a big different in performance if swapping the suspension (front and rear) to Fox, Dorado or equivalent
anyone done that can comment?

Very much so, but it all depends on your usage and if you are keen on frequent repairs and services. I got a Fox 40, and that is very nice. But it needs service at least once a year. More if you ride hard or carry extra weight around the belly. I had a boxxer wc, didn't like it much and managed to trade it for dnm usd8 fork. The dnm is good enough for street riding but I think it is not perfect in off road use.

Dorado I have not tried. But I hear good thing about them. Ohlins came out with DH forks last year. Never tried Ohlins for e-bikes and probably never will due to their price tag. But I've ridden Ohlins front and back on mx for years and they are worth the money. Also for snowmobiles Ohlins used to be the de facto shock upgrades for riders pushing the limits. If you don't know DVO check out their emerald. Consensus seems to be that is a real great fork, and stiff like a MF.

Then there is some suspension wizards around that can do miracle with suspension setup and the rebuild the fork/shock to better fit your weight, riding style etc, they revalve the fork and shock to your liking. Also if you got deep pockets you can have custom build race fork with up to 12" travel from Avalanche. Heavy borderline mx weight, but also borderline mx quality according to people who have tried those monsters. But the weight is like 2 or 3 times more then a modern day DH fork so probably not worth the high asking price because in addition to long travel you get the high price tag and weight penalty.

Fall is coming and many riders will sell their DH fork so that they have money for the next best thing for 2019. This could be a good time to start looking for a newly serviced second hand up market fork. If you take your time you likely will not pay more for a top brand name fork used then for a mid tier brand new fork.

 

[BCTECH]

will there be a big different in performance if swapping the suspension (front and rear) to Fox, Dorado or equivalent
anyone done that can comment?

Very much so, but it all depends on your usage and if you are keen on frequent repairs and services. I got a Fox 40, and that is very nice. But it needs service at least once a year. More if you ride hard or carry extra weight around the belly. I had a boxxer wc, didn't like it much and managed to trade it for dnm usd8 fork. The dnm is good enough for street riding but I think it is not perfect in off road use.

Dorado I have not tried. But I hear good thing about them. Ohlins came out with DH forks last year. Never tried Ohlins for e-bikes and probably never will due to their price tag. But I've ridden Ohlins front and back on mx for years and they are worth the money. Also for snowmobiles Ohlins used to be the de facto shock upgrades for riders pushing the limits. If you don't know DVO check out their emerald. Consensus seems to be that is a real great fork, and stiff like a MF.

Then there is some suspension wizards around that can do miracle with suspension setup and the rebuild the fork/shock to better fit your weight, riding style etc, they revalve the fork and shock to your liking. Also if you got deep pockets you can have custom build race fork with up to 12" travel from Avalanche. Heavy borderline mx weight, but also borderline mx quality according to people who have tried those monsters. But the weight is like 2 or 3 times more then a modern day DH fork so probably not worth the high asking price because in addition to long travel you get the high price tag and weight penalty.

Fall is coming and many riders will sell their DH fork so that they have money for the next best thing for 2019. This could be a good time to start looking for a newly serviced second hand up market fork. If you take your time you likely will not pay more for a top brand name fork used then for a mid tier brand new fork.

thanks for the detail info!
how much better is the Fox 40 compare with the dnm in terms of off road performance from your experience? I understand Fox is triple the price but if it's double the performance then might be worth it?

 

[motomoto]

Allex wrote:

Here is a 24" MTB up front with our lovely MTX39 rim and DURO razorback tire combo.
1kg lighter

The bike looks awesome. I like the red anodize on the front hub and those rims are the best. I have spent so many
hours trying to get those rims it's ridiculous.

 

[n2mb]

Allex wrote:

Here is a 24" MTB up front with our lovely MTX39 rim and DURO razorback tire combo.
1kg lighter

The bike looks awesome. I like the red anodize on the front hub and those rims are the best. I have spent so many
hours trying to get those rims it's ridiculous.

They are very hard to get in 24" in the US!

 

[macribs]

thanks for the detail info!
how much better is the Fox 40 compare with the dnm in terms of off road performance from your experience? I understand Fox is triple the price but if it's double the performance then might be worth it?

Fox 40 where designed from the ground up to handel big drops, major jumps and high speed. Look at what the crazy DH guys pulls every weekend. Them Fox's will handle smaller rapid bumps, wash board style bumps, yet still can take on jumps without problems. Tbh I haven't really done a whole lot of jumping, and I avoided jumping onto flats etc because of the hubmotor. The Dnm I think was not designed to be a full race ready DH fork. I think the idea is it looks like a DH fork, it got the same length of travel and can be plush enough for comfort without giving any problems for road use, and light off road use. If you ride hard off road I would get a DH fork. However, lighter riders might find that dnm works well for them off road as well.

If you find the price is too steep go hunting for second hand ones. In the fall you should be able to find DH forks like Fox 40 probably down to 5-600 fresh out of service. The Evo emerald was on summer sale for around 1000 $. So maybe you can do a bargain on a used set?

 

[thoroughbred]

Are the bike still coming with Fastace forks? I saw this reference to making the zero/pitbike fastaces better but maybe the Sur-ron fastace stuff is totally different...

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7737

 

[fechter]

Are the bike still coming with Fastace forks? I saw this reference to making the zero/pitbike fastaces better but maybe the Sur-ron fastace stuff is totally different...

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7737

Mine did. Arrived a week ago. I haven't had a chance to really test them out yet.

 

[Allex]

[youtube]BEX7OrQ_x7w[/youtube]

 

[Joachim]

20% ???????????? dont see 20% more power on the x controller

 

[Allex]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89902&p=1386130&hilit=75a#p1386130

65A vs 75A on ours so its not 20% but rather 15%

 

[fechter]

Thanks for posting that Allex. The X controller is supposed to have field weakening which would allow the top rpm to be quite a bit higher. If you combine this with a lower gear ratio, you can get significantly more torque and have the same top speed.

 

[n2mb]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89902&p=1386130&hilit=75a#p1386130

65A vs 75A on ours so its not 20% but rather 15%

Cool. Good to know. So, it's really a 4.5kw bike with the X upgrade.

It would be interesting to try swapping in an aftermarket sinewave controller, like the Powervelocity or Sabvoton. You'd have to do some work figuring out all the existing wiring and matching up the wires to the new controller, but since the connectors seem to be standard parts, it should be all plug and plug when you are done... Although, the stock BMS is rated for 85A, so you might only get to 75A or 80A anyway. So, it would basically be the X upgrade, with sine wave, FOC and regen. But yeah, probably not worth the work. Just wait for more X controller to show up.

 

[macribs]

Thanks for posting that Allex. The X controller is supposed to have field weakening which would allow the top rpm to be quite a bit higher. If you combine this with a lower gear ratio, you can get significantly more torque and have the same top speed.

I think Allex did a field weakening test once where he got 25-30% more speed with field weakening, this is long time ago back when he rode a Bomber bike iirc. Pulling this from old mans memory so I could be off. If that holds true for most field weakening controllers you should be able to change gear ratio accordingly without loss of top speed.

 

[macribs]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89902&p=1386130&hilit=75a#p1386130

65A vs 75A on ours so its not 20% but rather 15%

Cool. Good to know. So, it's really a 4.5kw bike with the X upgrade.

It would be interesting to try swapping in an aftermarket sinewave controller, like the Powervelocity or Sabvoton. You'd have to do some work figuring out all the existing wiring and matching up the wires to the new controller, but since the connectors seem to be standard parts, it should be all plug and plug when you are done... Although, the stock BMS is rated for 85A, so you might only get to 75A or 80A anyway. So, it would basically be the X upgrade, with sine wave, FOC and regen. But yeah, probably not worth the work. Just wait for more X controller to show up.

There is a video on youtube of a modded bike from Luna I think that runs the ASI 8000 controller, they pulled like motorcycle numbers from the stock motor with that controller. Did some acceleration test with a motorcycle. Seems motor will take 25-30kw so how much fun you will have is all up the what controller you put in. Surely you can get way more fun then waiting around for the new X controller.

 

[n2mb]

There is a video on youtube of a modded bike from Luna I think that runs the ASI 8000 controller, they pulled like motorcycle numbers from the stock motor with that controller. Did some acceleration test with a motorcycle. Seems motor will take 25-30kw so how much fun you will have is all up the what controller you put in. Surely you can get way more fun then waiting around for the new X controller.

That would work, but you'd also have to upgrade the battery too. It looks like the stock BMS is rated for 85A, based on a tear down in this thread. So, it would trip with too much higher current.

Now, if you took out the battery and stuffed the box full of Lipos, you could do something serious. Or catch on fire. Or both!

Or rebuild the stock battery with whatever these cells are that are rated for 30A continuous discharge, 3120 mAh. More range and huge power! Should be good for 20-25 kW
https://www.orbtronic.com/30a-18650-3120mah-battery-high-drain-rechargeable-flat-top