SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

[derb]

From Left: Artrax 90/90-19,

Can you tell me the weight of the tire?

 

[pipeking]

From Left: Artrax 90/90-19,

Can you tell me the weight of the tire?

sorry derb I don't have scales but I can tell you it is heavier than both the dunlop geomax and the pirelli scorpion which are both a bit heavier than the stock tires.

 

[Jonathan1981]

Can anyone more involved on the electric/battery side give me an idea of what a descent sized battery form factor for a 72V+system would entail...... I'm just messing around with some idea's here for a big brother sur-ron frame design.... I was thinking of making it so you could slide in two batteries side by side, you'd be able to customize the weight and range that way on the fly.... and it would make it easier to carry the larger batteries...

or just give me an idea of the best cell to use and I'll figure it out from there...

 

[Rix]

Can anyone more involved on the electric/battery side give me an idea of what a descent sized battery form factor for a 72V+system would entail...... I'm just messing around with some idea's here for a big brother sur-ron frame design.... I was thinking of making it so you could slide in two batteries side by side, you'd be able to customize the weight and range that way on the fly.... and it would make it easier to carry the larger batteries...

or just give me an idea of the best cell to use and I'll figure it out from there...

18S 8P with 30Q cells would be a decent sized pack with lots of go power.

 

[Jonathan1981]

Can anyone more involved on the electric/battery side give me an idea of what a descent sized battery form factor for a 72V+system would entail...... I'm just messing around with some idea's here for a big brother sur-ron frame design.... I was thinking of making it so you could slide in two batteries side by side, you'd be able to customize the weight and range that way on the fly.... and it would make it easier to carry the larger batteries...

or just give me an idea of the best cell to use and I'll figure it out from there...

18S 8P with 30Q cells would be a decent sized pack with lots of go power.

Hey Rix, so forgive me here I'm a bit of a noob with battery and electrical stuff, but that would be ~4v * 18 = ~ 72V total and given 3ah cells, 3x8 = 24ah total? or ~ 1.8Kwh

 

[Rix]

Can anyone more involved on the electric/battery side give me an idea of what a descent sized battery form factor for a 72V+system would entail...... I'm just messing around with some idea's here for a big brother sur-ron frame design.... I was thinking of making it so you could slide in two batteries side by side, you'd be able to customize the weight and range that way on the fly.... and it would make it easier to carry the larger batteries...

or just give me an idea of the best cell to use and I'll figure it out from there...

18S 8P with 30Q cells would be a decent sized pack with lots of go power.

Hey Rix, so forgive me here I'm a bit of a noob with battery and electrical stuff, but that would be ~4v * 18 = ~ 72V total and given 3ah cells, 3x8 = 24ah total? or ~ 1.8Kwh

You are correct, an 18s battery would be 75.6 volts hot off the charger. That said, I missed the fact you were looking at putting 2 packs together for a long range ride potential and one pack for short rides and lighter weight. So that said, you could cut back to an 18s 7p and build 2 of those to use in parallel for a larger 42Ah battery and run 1 pack for lighter weight. A 7P pack from 30Q cells can easily handle 100DC amps continues and that would be doubled for a 14P pack.

 

[Jonathan1981]

Can anyone more involved on the electric/battery side give me an idea of what a descent sized battery form factor for a 72V+system would entail...... I'm just messing around with some idea's here for a big brother sur-ron frame design.... I was thinking of making it so you could slide in two batteries side by side, you'd be able to customize the weight and range that way on the fly.... and it would make it easier to carry the larger batteries...

or just give me an idea of the best cell to use and I'll figure it out from there...

18S 8P with 30Q cells would be a decent sized pack with lots of go power.

Hey Rix, so forgive me here I'm a bit of a noob with battery and electrical stuff, but that would be ~4v * 18 = ~ 72V total and given 3ah cells, 3x8 = 24ah total? or ~ 1.8Kwh

You are correct, an 18s battery would be 75.6 volts hot off the charger. That said, I missed the fact you were looking at putting 2 packs together for a long range ride potential and one pack for short rides and lighter weight. So that said, you could cut back to an 18s 7p and build 2 of those to use in parallel for a larger 42Ah battery and run 1 pack for lighter weight. A 7P pack from 30Q cells can easily handle 100DC amps continues and that would be doubled for a 14P pack.

Ok great thanks, I'll rough out the dimensions, see how it looks..

Any suggestions on high power motors? maybe in the 10-15KW range?

 

[fechter]

Any suggestions on high power motors? maybe in the 10-15KW range?

I wouldn't worry about that until you cook the stock motor. From what I've seen, 10kW should be no problem. Anything to improve the air flow around the motor will help a lot.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Any suggestions on high power motors? maybe in the 10-15KW range?

I wouldn't worry about that until you cook the stock motor. From what I've seen, 10kW should be no problem. Anything to improve the air flow around the motor will help a lot.

but OP is not asking about a larger motor for surron, but a larger version frame with more powerful battery, motor, etc..

 

[Jonathan1981]

Any suggestions on high power motors? maybe in the 10-15KW range?

I wouldn't worry about that until you cook the stock motor. From what I've seen, 10kW should be no problem. Anything to improve the air flow around the motor will help a lot.

but OP is not asking about a larger motor for surron, but a larger version frame with more powerful battery, motor, etc..

To clarify, I'm designing a larger frame based on the surron. just want to know info about batteries and motor. I'd like to do 2 packs of about 2, possibly 2.5kw each That slide in side by side. So you can slide in just one pack for smaller rides. The motor needs to be 72V+, anything from 10-15KW+

 

[Grantmac]

If you are doing a from the ground up design I would make sure you pick an IPM motor so you can take full advantage of flux weakening to maximize the range of a one-speed reduction.

 

[Jonathan1981]

Ok, good info. Have no idea what that is hahaha. Like I mentioned, Battery and electrics are not my area. I do frame design in Cad. I really like the Sur-ron's architecture, ie, batteries slide in from top, top cap closing on battery to tighten them down, belt reduction @ swing arm pivot, perimeter frame etc. So I don't really want to mess with that, I'm just going to update the size .
I'll look into it IPM.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Ok, good info. Have no idea what that is hahaha. Like I mentioned, Battery and electrics are not my area. I do frame design in Cad. I really like the Sur-ron's architecture, ie, batteries slide in from top, top cap closing on battery to tighten them down, belt reduction @ swing arm pivot, perimeter frame etc. So I don't really want to mess with that, I'm just going to update the size .
I'll look into it IPM.

here is a quick read to warm up.. SPM vs IPM :
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=97880

 

[Jonathan1981]

Ok, good info. Have no idea what that is hahaha. Like I mentioned, Battery and electrics are not my area. I do frame design in Cad. I really like the Sur-ron's architecture, ie, batteries slide in from top, top cap closing on battery to tighten them down, belt reduction @ swing arm pivot, perimeter frame etc. So I don't really want to mess with that, I'm just going to update the size .
I'll look into it IPM.

here is a quick read to warm up.. SPM vs IPM :
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=97880

10-4. I'll check it out.

 

[Jonathan1981]

So what cells would someone suggest if I wanted to build a high output pack from 18650 (cylindrical style cells)??
I notice that you can buy thundersky type pre-built batteries from hi powered EV retailers but I'd like to try to build my own more cheaply.....

thinking about 20S (possibly 14-16P) pack..... possible 300AMP max output, so that's mean I'd need about 20C????

What is the Surron pack setup anyway? cells, config, amp output etc.

 

[Tommm]

So what cells would someone suggest if I wanted to build a high output pack from 18650 (cylindrical style cells)??
I notice that you can buy thundersky type pre-built batteries from hi powered EV retailers but I'd like to try to build my own more cheaply.....

thinking about 20S (possibly 14-16P) pack..... possible 300AMP max output, so that's mean I'd need about 20C????

What is the Surron pack setup anyway? cells, config, amp output etc.

Sur ron is 16s11p.

You can fit in a few dozen more with a diagonal cell holder.

For high output, use vtc6 or 30q.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKYk8YAL-yg

 

[Jonathan1981]

So what cells would someone suggest if I wanted to build a high output pack from 18650 (cylindrical style cells)??
I notice that you can buy thundersky type pre-built batteries from hi powered EV retailers but I'd like to try to build my own more cheaply.....

thinking about 20S (possibly 14-16P) pack..... possible 300AMP max output, so that's mean I'd need about 20C????

What is the Surron pack setup anyway? cells, config, amp output etc.

Sur ron is 16s11p.

You can fit in a few dozen more with a diagonal cell holder.

For high output, use vtc6 or 30q.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKYk8YAL-yg

Cool, yeah those 30Q look like they'd do the trick.... the large 20s14P pack would be for another project but might be cool to try it on the Surry also, 17s12p 30Q's maybe.....

So would the motor or our controller pick up on 72V? or a new controller would be required I assume...

 

[Tommm]

Cool, yeah those 30Q look like they'd do the trick.... the large 20s14P pack would be for another project but might be cool to try it on the Surry also, 17s12p 30Q's maybe.....

So would the motor or our controller pick up on 72V? or a new controller would be required I assume...

Luna is soon releasing shunt modded controller. Curious to see how much power they can get out of it. Probably an extra 30-35%. Probably can't touch the voltage.

 

[Allex]

You can see the shunt to the right of the board.
Some1 needs to modify it!
If you change the caps you can prolly use 20s but stock DC/DC might not take it.

 

[fechter]

Luna is soon releasing shunt modded controller. Curious to see how much power they can get out of it. Probably an extra 30-35%. Probably can't touch the voltage.

Interesting. Where did you see that?

 

[skyungjae]

Cool, yeah those 30Q look like they'd do the trick.... the large 20s14P pack would be for another project but might be cool to try it on the Surry also, 17s12p 30Q's maybe.....

So would the motor or our controller pick up on 72V? or a new controller would be required I assume...

Luna is soon releasing shunt modded controller. Curious to see how much power they can get out of it. Probably an extra 30-35%. Probably can't touch the voltage.

When ERT tested my factory battery pack when fitting an ASI 4000, they said that the pack sagged hard at 85A. I think the X controller set to 80A due to the vast majority of aged packs performing similarly.

As discussed in other threads and the facebook owner's page, the battery is definitely the weak link. The first person to release a plug and play tune-able controller and drop in battery pack is probably going to make bank off those people chasing more power with deep pockets.

 

[Tommm]

Luna is soon releasing shunt modded controller. Curious to see how much power they can get out of it. Probably an extra 30-35%. Probably can't touch the voltage.

Interesting. Where did you see that?

One of Eric's recent facebook posts(~1 month), he showed a bunch of (~10) X controllers on a pallet and he said they were already modded to ludicrous power and he is releasing them soon. He said they will also offer an asi8000 version but that will require a new battery too.

I combed over a bunch of recent stuff, can't find it... But you know how Eric is, just because he says he will do it, doesn't mean he will.

 

[Jonathan1981]

So what cells would someone suggest if I wanted to build a high output pack from 18650 (cylindrical style cells)??
I notice that you can buy thundersky type pre-built batteries from hi powered EV retailers but I'd like to try to build my own more cheaply.....

thinking about 20S (possibly 14-16P) pack..... possible 300AMP max output, so that's mean I'd need about 20C????

What is the Surron pack setup anyway? cells, config, amp output etc.

Sur ron is 16s11p.

You can fit in a few dozen more with a diagonal cell holder.

For high output, use vtc6 or 30q.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKYk8YAL-yg

Forgot to ask, what kind of cells is Surron using?

 

[Tommm]

Forgot to ask, what kind of cells is Surron using?

They are using Panasonic PF, "value" cells. They are 8-10A and 2900mAh. So they/you could double the performance with the same battery size/layout by just using different type of cells.

 

[Jonathan1981]

Forgot to ask, what kind of cells is Surron using?

They are using Panasonic PF, "value" cells. They are 8-10A and 2900mAh. So they/you could double the performance with the same battery size/layout by just using different type of cells.

A few people have modded packs? what cells and config are they using? anyone know? 30Q sammy's seems like the obvious choice...but then new BMS and Controller required.