Do you want those posts moved to that new thread? If so, link to it and I can put them there.
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Switch from internal to external controller - hub motor
- Thread starter rick_p
- Start date
rick_p
Regular
I think I did a pretty good job of copying over the most pertinent information, and I also provided linkage in case anyone wanted to see the conversation on this thread, so I think we're good, but I totally trust you, so if you think that would be even better, then by all means do it.
rick_p
Regular
Follow up information on this conversion.
On my last post I reported the motor got pretty hot after a significant ride (8 miles or so) on a fairly warm day (mid to upper 80s). I suspected the heat build up was mostly weather conditions and my riding style of pushing it pretty hard.
Well, I rode it to work again today. This time the one-way was 12 miles and the weather was cool (low to mid 70s). I took it a bit easier on the motor by using PAS levels 2 and 3 instead of 3 and 4 like I did last time. Unfortunately, the results were not better as I'd hoped, the motor still got hot, battery performance was not good, and it even got the battery so warm that I had to let it cool down before I could charge it. Note that it is best practice to let batteries cool down before changing them anyway, but my point here is, it wouldn't even take a charge, the cells were so warm the BMS prevented charging to protect the cells from overheating.
So, what is the problem I wonder
. Is it possible I don't have the hall wires connected correctly? Is that even possible given that it spins in the right direction?
I suppose there could be a number of factors, like there could have been be a problem with this motor that existed before the conversion, I didn't test it well enough to rule that out. And as mentioned in the last post, by not hooking up the thermistors during the conversion, I basically removed any thermal protection that would allow the controller to scale back power to prevent heat build up, but I don't put much faith in that being the cause of the heat because I really took it easy on the ride and it was nice and cool out.
On my last post I reported the motor got pretty hot after a significant ride (8 miles or so) on a fairly warm day (mid to upper 80s). I suspected the heat build up was mostly weather conditions and my riding style of pushing it pretty hard.
Well, I rode it to work again today. This time the one-way was 12 miles and the weather was cool (low to mid 70s). I took it a bit easier on the motor by using PAS levels 2 and 3 instead of 3 and 4 like I did last time. Unfortunately, the results were not better as I'd hoped, the motor still got hot, battery performance was not good, and it even got the battery so warm that I had to let it cool down before I could charge it. Note that it is best practice to let batteries cool down before changing them anyway, but my point here is, it wouldn't even take a charge, the cells were so warm the BMS prevented charging to protect the cells from overheating.
So, what is the problem I wonder
. Is it possible I don't have the hall wires connected correctly? Is that even possible given that it spins in the right direction? I suppose there could be a number of factors, like there could have been be a problem with this motor that existed before the conversion, I didn't test it well enough to rule that out. And as mentioned in the last post, by not hooking up the thermistors during the conversion, I basically removed any thermal protection that would allow the controller to scale back power to prevent heat build up, but I don't put much faith in that being the cause of the heat because I really took it easy on the ride and it was nice and cool out.
rick_p
Regular
More data:
After this morning's experience I decided to try something different on the way home. I rode the entire twelve miles on PAS 1, which has a top speed of 15mph. For reference of how much different PAS 1 is from PAS 2, which I used on the ride in to work, the watt meter on the way in was basically pegged to the top (6 bars and 24mph) the whole way in, whereas with PAS 1 the watt meter had only one bar most of the way and would only spike when I hit a head wind, a hill, or other incline. After one long incline where the watt meter was at three bars for a while I stopped and did a hand check on the motor, it was luke warm. Battery consumption was only one used versus only one bar left at the end of the ride in.
I'm not real sure what this tells us, but I feel like it tells us something. At the end of the day though, 24mph is barely fast enough, so if I can't use it at least PAS 2 without it overheating, then the wheel is useless to me, even if it works.
After this morning's experience I decided to try something different on the way home. I rode the entire twelve miles on PAS 1, which has a top speed of 15mph. For reference of how much different PAS 1 is from PAS 2, which I used on the ride in to work, the watt meter on the way in was basically pegged to the top (6 bars and 24mph) the whole way in, whereas with PAS 1 the watt meter had only one bar most of the way and would only spike when I hit a head wind, a hill, or other incline. After one long incline where the watt meter was at three bars for a while I stopped and did a hand check on the motor, it was luke warm. Battery consumption was only one used versus only one bar left at the end of the ride in.
I'm not real sure what this tells us, but I feel like it tells us something. At the end of the day though, 24mph is barely fast enough, so if I can't use it at least PAS 2 without it overheating, then the wheel is useless to me, even if it works.
I'd recommend looking up "false positive" regarding phase/hall combos.
If you haven't already done the testing to determine the correct phase/hall combo, that would be the first thing to verify. there are quite a few posts describing the procedure in general, and some in a fair bit of detail.
Eliminating an incorrect wiring setup at least...eliminates that problem.
If you haven't already done the testing to determine the correct phase/hall combo, that would be the first thing to verify. there are quite a few posts describing the procedure in general, and some in a fair bit of detail.
Eliminating an incorrect wiring setup at least...eliminates that problem.
rick_p
Regular
Thank you for this tip, this is good news because something is not right, so it will be good to verify if the phase/halls are set up correctly to rule that out or maybe even fix the problem.I'd recommend looking up "false positive" regarding phase/hall combos.
If you haven't already done the testing to determine the correct phase/hall combo, that would be the first thing to verify. there are quite a few posts describing the procedure in general, and some in a fair bit of detail.
Eliminating an incorrect wiring setup at least...eliminates that problem.
rick_p
Regular
More data:
I rode to work yesterday on the bike that still has the integrated controller inside the hub, and on the 8 mile home I pegged the PAS at it's highest setting, level 4, and rode all the way home like that. The ambient temperature was moderate, maybe upper 70s to low 80s. I stopped to do a hand check on the motor after a long stretch with a few hills and the motor was only warm.
If nothing else this tells us the converted wheel is getting way too hot for some reason, but until I perform the test to determine if the wiring is set up correctly we can't make any assumptions as to what the cause is. Stay tuned as they say.
I rode to work yesterday on the bike that still has the integrated controller inside the hub, and on the 8 mile home I pegged the PAS at it's highest setting, level 4, and rode all the way home like that. The ambient temperature was moderate, maybe upper 70s to low 80s. I stopped to do a hand check on the motor after a long stretch with a few hills and the motor was only warm.
If nothing else this tells us the converted wheel is getting way too hot for some reason, but until I perform the test to determine if the wiring is set up correctly we can't make any assumptions as to what the cause is. Stay tuned as they say.
rick_p
Regular
I found lots of information about testing for this, both on and off of this site. Most of the information I found is kind of spread around various posts rather than a comprehensive article covering it in detail, but with that said I did find one comment that sums it up pretty good, and not surprisingly you are one of the people who commented, but here is the comment that I will likely use to run this test myself. And lucky for me, I can start with the "static phase wires" method because the wheel is spinning in the right direction, and I likely know which wire provides power for the halls, thus simplifying the process a bit.I'd recommend looking up "false positive" regarding phase/hall combos.
If you haven't already done the testing to determine the correct phase/hall combo, that would be the first thing to verify. there are quite a few posts describing the procedure in general, and some in a fair bit of detail.
Eliminating an incorrect wiring setup at least...eliminates that problem.
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