Maybe they melted? I like my catfish blackened but that stator is toast. The blue phase looks OK but the other two are cooked. Is there any way that stator could even work? I think you can dip them but I'm not sure how reliable that is.
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Switch from internal to external controller - hub motor
- Thread starter rick_p
- Start date
rick_p
Regular
Hi, thanks for the post. If you're referring to the dark color all over everything, it's some kind of coating or special paint. I don't think anything overheated. The pictures are deceiving.
Added on 8/27/25, it just occurred to me that you are referring to the wires in the harness melting. Hmm, that is a good point, I don't see any signs of that but cutting the harness open at this point might tell something. It was used and may have been damaged before I used it here. I'm going to reply to E-HP's post and talk about the cooked stater.
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Yes, it’s a coating, and yes, it’s like paint, enamel actually. Also known as insulation and clear. It gets dark after cooking.
rick_p
Regular
This makes three posts about the stater appearing cooked, and at first I disregarded this notion for two reasons. One, it was a working motor/wheel before I removed the internal controller, and two, it really does look like it was sprayed with something like black paint. But, after reading your explanation I did a little searching on over-heated staters, and yes, I now see the resemblance of mine to other "toasty" looking ones. Given this scenario (looks cooked but was still working) I have a question, but not solely for your opinion, so I'll create a new post and tag everyone who seems to have experience with cooked staters.
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rick_p
Regular
@amberwolf @E-HP @furcifer
As just noted above, I did a little searching on over-heated staters, and yes, I now see the resemblance of mine to other "toasty" looking ones. But given the scenario that has obviously cooked, but apparently not to the point of failure because it was still working before I opened it to remove the controller, what is likely to happen if I finishing wiring it up for an external controller and it works initially? Is it just going to be prone to an early failure or might something more ominous happen?
Note that I'm not asking these questions because I actually care how reliable the wheel will be, the only thing I hope to get out of this at this point is the knowledge and experience of doing it, so I can do it again on a wheel that doesn't have a cooked stater, but I don't want to jeopardize other good equipment in the process.
As just noted above, I did a little searching on over-heated staters, and yes, I now see the resemblance of mine to other "toasty" looking ones. But given the scenario that has obviously cooked, but apparently not to the point of failure because it was still working before I opened it to remove the controller, what is likely to happen if I finishing wiring it up for an external controller and it works initially? Is it just going to be prone to an early failure or might something more ominous happen?
Note that I'm not asking these questions because I actually care how reliable the wheel will be, the only thing I hope to get out of this at this point is the knowledge and experience of doing it, so I can do it again on a wheel that doesn't have a cooked stater, but I don't want to jeopardize other good equipment in the process.
The motor will still run with some of the strands shorted, but you don’t know whether that’s occurred or not. If some strands are shorted, efficiency goes down, which means heat will go up. So if there are shorts, then the motor will die sooner, since with anything electric, heat kills. Even if there are no shorts, then the motor insulation is degraded. There are methods of cleaning, then applying additional varnish, not to insulate, but to keep the windings from moving/rubbing against each other (to prevent future shorts). Add a temp sensor while you have it apart if you want to monitor what’s going on.
rick_p
Regular
Very valuable information, thank you. The most important thing I've learned is, it sounds like the worst case scenario is it will degrade quickly and die, but probably won't take out (short circuit) other components when it does, especially if I monitor it and catch the degradation early. To be honest, I won't attempt to use this wheel much beyond the experiment of seeing if I can convert it to using an external controller because if I succeed at that, I have access to more of these wheels will be able to open them up to look for one that is not cooked already.
rick_p
Regular
I wanted to follow up with you on this Stromer wheel because I may want to pursue using this wheel at some point, so I pulled it out to get a closer look. I didn't take any pictures yet but I will and will post some when I do. It has what I believe is a model number printed on it; TDCM ST-HM-04 and there is also a long string of numbers but nothing in terms of specifications. It is definitely a split hub motor, and there isn't a side cover. I looked up the Stromer bikes model line up and this wheel is likely off one of the ST Pedalic models, like an ST1, ST2, etc. and hard to say how old it is or which specific model it fits, but likely to be around an ST3, I don't think there was an ST4 bike despite the wheel having ST-HM-04 on it. It's a through axle mounted wheel, which presents it's own challenges in addition to the challenges of opening it up and converting to an external controller.
TommyCat
Power poster
Hiyas rick_p,
Good to see your keeping busy!
Just wanted to poke my nose in here and mention a couple things...
In the discussion of toasted windings no one has mentioned using another sense, that being smell.
It's been my experience that a burnt or toasted motor will have exactly that kind of odor, with perhaps a little acidic or caustic flavor added in. Different from the sweet smell of a freshly enameled virgin motor winding.
Hard to tell thru the pictures, but you can put your nose to it and see what you think.
But if I had my own repair shop, it would have a megger. This electrical testing device for windings puts a voltage current into the windings and then gives you a resistance reading between the phases telling you the condition of the enamel insulation.
I've used one several times on air conditioning compressors that were exhibiting out of spec current draws. This was in the pure A/C
application, but wouldn't it work with the "modified A/C" that the BLDC motors use?
Perhaps you have an electrician friend that might have one...
Regards,
T.C.
Good to see your keeping busy!
Just wanted to poke my nose in here and mention a couple things...
In the discussion of toasted windings no one has mentioned using another sense, that being smell.
It's been my experience that a burnt or toasted motor will have exactly that kind of odor, with perhaps a little acidic or caustic flavor added in. Different from the sweet smell of a freshly enameled virgin motor winding.
Hard to tell thru the pictures, but you can put your nose to it and see what you think.
But if I had my own repair shop, it would have a megger. This electrical testing device for windings puts a voltage current into the windings and then gives you a resistance reading between the phases telling you the condition of the enamel insulation.
I've used one several times on air conditioning compressors that were exhibiting out of spec current draws. This was in the pure A/C
application, but wouldn't it work with the "modified A/C" that the BLDC motors use?
Perhaps you have an electrician friend that might have one...
Regards,
T.C.
rick_p
Regular
Sometimes I wonder if the busy I keep is productive or a sign of insanity.Hiyas rick_p,
Good to see your keeping busy!
I very much appreciate you taking the time to chime in. I ran right out to the garage gave it the nose test. I couldn't smell much of anything, I sniffed in a few locations, and maybe, just maybe, I detected a slight hint of an "electrical" smell. And by electrical, I do mean the kind of smell when something electrical got a little hotter than it's supposed to, but by no means the kind of smell you get when something has short-circuited and fried. So, my conclusion on this is, it's not supposed to be that color, and it doesn't have that fresh enamel kind of smell either, so while I don't think it has suffered any severe damage yet, it's probably on borrowed time and if it does run, I should take it easy on it.
I don't know anyone with a megger, and I'm not concerned with this wheel enough to pursue that sort of testing. I plan to wire it up again, and it will be what it will be.
rick_p
Regular
I found the problem, I cut open the harness until I found the break, and it turned out to be right where the wires connect to the pins inside the connector. I looked at the breaks under a magnifying glass and was unable to determine whether they melted from heat or broke from stress.
I found another harness and checked to make sure it was good this time. I wired it up following the same "color coding" as last time, which I now know doesn't really mean anything, but decided to try that first since it spun for a moment last time before messed up and let the axle spin and maybe broke things.
Well, there was definite signs of life, when I cracked the throttle a little, the wheel (motor) sort of vibrated, like it couldn't decide whether to go forward or reverse. So I let off the throttle and spun the wheel by hand and gave it a little throttle before it stopped moving on it's own and it stopped and vibrated like I had slammed on an electric brake. For the last test I gave it a little throttle and then tried to turn the wheel by hand, but no dice, it was like being locked.
So, @amberwolf does this mean it's just a matter of figuring out the right locations for the wires? If so, did you say there was a post that explained the best way to figure out the combination?
Update: I searched and found a few things to try. So far I only tried two things because they could be accomplished from the outside.
I found another harness and checked to make sure it was good this time. I wired it up following the same "color coding" as last time, which I now know doesn't really mean anything, but decided to try that first since it spun for a moment last time before messed up and let the axle spin and maybe broke things.
Well, there was definite signs of life, when I cracked the throttle a little, the wheel (motor) sort of vibrated, like it couldn't decide whether to go forward or reverse. So I let off the throttle and spun the wheel by hand and gave it a little throttle before it stopped moving on it's own and it stopped and vibrated like I had slammed on an electric brake. For the last test I gave it a little throttle and then tried to turn the wheel by hand, but no dice, it was like being locked.
So, @amberwolf does this mean it's just a matter of figuring out the right locations for the wires? If so, did you say there was a post that explained the best way to figure out the combination?
Update: I searched and found a few things to try. So far I only tried two things because they could be accomplished from the outside.
- The first thing I tried was disconnecting all the hall wires except for power and ground, same behavior from the throttle.
- Then I disconnected the red (power) hall wire, same behavior.
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All you need is the phase and Hall wires coming out of a hub motor. Really don't have to have the Halls.
To me, that just looks like a bad wire-joining system. I could be wrong.
rick_p
Regular
That is essentially where I'm at, but I guess I'm going to have to try rearranging the three phase wires internally until it spins properly.
rick_p
Regular
Most people would not dissect the connector like that, but I was determined to find the break in the wiring.
rick_p
Regular
Success!! 
I put all the hall wires back to their color-coded locations and swapped the yellow and green phase wire connections and bam, she fired right up and ran smooth. I have everything in a very temporary setup right now so I need to open it up and make those connections safer and strapped down, but then I can try it out for a test ride.
I put all the hall wires back to their color-coded locations and swapped the yellow and green phase wire connections and bam, she fired right up and ran smooth. I have everything in a very temporary setup right now so I need to open it up and make those connections safer and strapped down, but then I can try it out for a test ride.Oh! You have inspired me! I'm willing to rearrange some phase wires if there's no "bap".Success!!
I gotta locked up BBS02. It tries, but doesn't go.
Now it did this before..was testing with a 36v, but a 48v spun it right up.
Later I got a different one to go with the same 36v battery no problem.
I try tomorrow, 1st the phases, then we'll think about the halls. if I have to switch the phases, the same color halls should be switched too, huh? Trying to have this thing not be a $350 paperweight. The joinings of the wires on that thing right now are not permanent. I have a whole foot-long correct-color-coded harness made up for the halls, I hope they're right. It worked good before.
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rick_p
Regular
rick_p
Regular
According to amberwolf and what I’ve read on other posts, there may or may not be any rhyme or reason to the colors, so no, I would not assume you need to match color coding the halls to the phase wires. Note that my hall wires are color coded to match the wheel’s wires exactly, and only the green and yellow phase wires are swapped.
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Ufnortunately wire colors could be completely random.
They don't even have to be Y G B for phases and hall signals, and red/black for hall power.
I have a controller with all green wires.
(and it also has hall wires, but it does not ever respond to them, connected wrong, right, or not at all).
I have a motor with black, white, and red for the phases. Etc.
GoldenMotor made a whole run of MagicPie systems with black battery positive wires, and red battery negative wires.
So...you can't safely assume any wire color means anything at all...even though much of the time, they do, and there are actually a fair number of manufacturers that use one of the several "standards" that have self-developed over the years, but even they don't always honor them.
They don't even have to be Y G B for phases and hall signals, and red/black for hall power.
I have a controller with all green wires.
(and it also has hall wires, but it does not ever respond to them, connected wrong, right, or not at all).I have a motor with black, white, and red for the phases. Etc.
GoldenMotor made a whole run of MagicPie systems with black battery positive wires, and red battery negative wires.
So...you can't safely assume any wire color means anything at all...even though much of the time, they do, and there are actually a fair number of manufacturers that use one of the several "standards" that have self-developed over the years, but even they don't always honor them.
TommyCat
Power poster
rick_p
Regular
See TommyCat's link, that will help!!
rick_p
Regular
I took it for a ride today, It performed well but I was nervous about it being the first outing, so I was hyper focused on listening for noises, and stopping to check for heat buildup and that sort of things. After a bit I took it to a stretch of road and bumped the PAS up to level 3 of 5, and it got up to 24mph pretty quickly. I didn't try level 4 because I'm still a little nervous, but I might next time. The two white wires I never connected might be thermal sensors or one might be a speed sensor. I mention this because the controller probably wouldn't go over 27mph if it knew how fast it was going, but it might not have that information and might go well above that speed. I don't plan on testing top speed for two reasons, I don't want to cook anything, and more importantly, I don't want to go that fast on this bike.
With the power of perseverance, the phoenix rises from the ashes!!I took it for a ride today, It performed well but I was nervous about it being the first outing, so I was hyper focused on listening for noises, and stopping to check for heat buildup and that sort of things. After a bit I took it to a stretch of road and bumped the PAS up to level 3 of 5, and it got up to 24mph pretty quickly. I didn't try level 4 because I'm still a little nervous, but I might next time. The two white wires I never connected might be thermal sensors or one might be a speed sensor. I mention this because the controller probably wouldn't go over 27mph if it knew how fast it was going, but it might not have that information and might go well above that speed. I don't plan on testing top speed for two reasons, I don't want to cook anything, and more importantly, I don't want to go that fast on this bike.
rick_p
Regular
@amberwolf as promised, pictures of the Stromer wheel. Note that originally I thought this wheel would only fit a 26" tire, but after searching the size printed on the wheel (584) I found that I was mistaken, and this wheel is probably a 27.5" which happens to be a good fit for the bike I would want to use it on. Suddenly the idea of converting it to an external controller got a lot more appealing, especially since the wheel came with the brake disk, and it's strange 4-bolt pattern! I don't happen to have a 27.5" tire handy that isn't already mounted on a rim, but I did confirm that a 26" is way too small.
AI Overview:
SYNO Sport is the powerful rear-hub motor found in Stromer's high-performance e-bikes, not the wheel itself. When discussing a "SYNO Sport Stromer wheel," you are referring to the rear wheel assembly of a Stromer e-bike that contains this integrated motor.
Key features of the SYNO Sport motor and wheel
AI Overview:
SYNO Sport is the powerful rear-hub motor found in Stromer's high-performance e-bikes, not the wheel itself. When discussing a "SYNO Sport Stromer wheel," you are referring to the rear wheel assembly of a Stromer e-bike that contains this integrated motor.
Key features of the SYNO Sport motor and wheel
- Integrated design: The motor is built directly into the rear wheel's hub, creating a clean, seamless look with fewer exposed components.
- High performance: The SYNO Sport motor provides a significant amount of torque and power, helping Stromer models reach Class 3 speeds of up to 28 mph.
- Sporty feel: This motor system is engineered to provide an athletic, responsive, and powerful ride, making the bike feel "superhuman" at high power levels.
- Regenerative braking: The SYNO motor can recover energy during braking, which helps to extend the bike's range.
- Paired with premium components: The wheel is designed to work with high-end components found on bikes like the Stromer ST5, including Pirelli tires and a robust, anti-lock braking system.
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