The age of cheap Chinese stuff is ending in the USA? [includes politics, but shouldn't]

[Chalo]

Now the trade from suppliers in China etc are a huge imballance and the recieving countries are loosing out on delivery costs.

If you mean "receiving the end of the deal they chose affirmatively", then sure.

 

[marvin78]

suppliers from places like China became dominant.

Then make affordable stuff locally.... ow wait, you can't because 'local people' aren't going to work for the wages required to meet the low prices needed for domestic products to compete with China.

You can say a number off bad things from my own government, but giving people the impression that we as a country need to be competitive in the manufacturing industry luckily isn't one of them. Because just like the US, people here are not going to work for the wages required to compete with stuff made in low wage countries.

Knowledge, trade and services. Not manufacturing, because fat rich white guys don't like unions or paying a livable minimum wage.... and still the US is already unable to compete... but hey that's not the real issue, the real issue is that China is making money from selling us residents products without the 'required' part of that money flowing into someone's pockets.

 

[neptronix]

New 25% tarriff on steel/aluminum.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/asi...all-after-trump-escalates-tariffs-2025-02-10/

I also see Orange guy throwing around a lot of ideas that look like expensive mistakes in general.

My prediction is higher prices on everything for some time until the global supply chain adjusts to this next government-created shock. ( hopefully won't be as bad as during covid )

I think the general public will respond to that by actually fixing things and buying more things that last instead of disposable things if it gets bad.

Or people will work around trade restrictions and dampen the impact.
Big corps already talking about what they'll do: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/11/ford-ceo-says-trumps-tariffs-are-causing-chaos-in-auto-industry.html

Or China will more intensely dump product and call Orange man's bluff on this 10% tarrif, may escalate.

Really too soon to make a call though.

If i was a business affected by this industry, i'd be freaking out right now. My clients in the finance world also don't have a good outlook ( they like uncertainty the least ).

 

[marvin78]

Funny thing, national bias. My local news reported about it, and emphasized that the last time this was announced US manufactureres which needed the high quality steel our mills at Tata are making begged their senators hard enough for them to force an exception,

I know, I know. Bad Orange Guy already threatened he wouldn't make exceptions this time.

Will be fun when US car manufacturing grinds to a halt because they can't get the kind of steel they need. They were the one's who begged for exceptions for Tata the last time Orange Guy came up with the great idea of tarrifs.

Ow and btw, those same manufacturers could ofc source the steel elsewhere... It's not like it's a magic formula. Just a type of process you don't have yet locally and which will take time to develop. You know, like China can't make the more modern chips because we don't sell them the latest litography machines, and it will take China time to catch up. In the mean time, your manufacturing would still need to get it, and the result will be paying more for our steel which will be paid for by US consumers. And probably just like with chip development, the steel process here will also continuously be developed to stay a premium product.

Anyway, that's probably a ratio of past experience, reality checks and some bias ( we're speshul, they need us!!!one!! ).

I'm not sure, it might take some time before exceptions come again. In the mean time, your manufacturing will take a hit they will without a doubt put up the consumer instead.

 

[harrisonpatm]

I think the general public will respond to that by actually fixing things and buying more things that last instead of disposable things if it gets bad.

If that would actually happen. Good. Great. That's what we should be doing anyway.

I'm not saying that this is what Trump is planning, like its his 5d chess move or whatever. But I bet I'm not the only one with the opinion that buying less of everything overall, buying less disposable goods, buying things that will last... all good things. Let's do that, even if it hurts, you know?

 

[marvin78]

I wonder how many much people are indeed willing to 'not have'. You guys are a lot more 'tolerant'. Either you're all very 'zen', or you got enough liquidity to deal with higher prices and still be better off as most.

That was the feeling I got when that JP Morgan ( or was it Chase.. not sure ) guy told us to: suck it up. Yeah, sure, mr billionaire, like you will have to change anything in your life

Now, if people here are saying they are willing to not be able to pay for the stuff they been using all this time, because it's to expensive, but that's ok they will all find other hobbies ( or do they all think the US will magically start producing stuff on their own? ).

 

[scianiac]

I wonder how many much people are indeed willing to 'not have'. You guys are a lot more 'tolerant'. Either you're all very 'zen', or you got enough liquidity to deal with higher prices and still be better off as most.

I mean just being a member of this forum certainly super skews us to the "cheapskate" "fix it ourselves" group. I don't like the tariffs, they are the worst tool in the drawer and used like this is the worst way to use them but I'll deal and probably that will mean buying less stuff, not intentionally but just because some things just won't seem worth the price. I'm more annoyed at the chaos it's causing and will cause in our economy. But I think for the US public in general who do consume like crazy it will be a more rude awakening.

 

[harrisonpatm]

I wonder how many much people are indeed willing to 'not have'. You guys are a lot more 'tolerant'. Either you're all very 'zen', or you got enough liquidity to deal with higher prices and still be better off as most.

That was the feeling I got when that JP Morgan ( or was it Chase.. not sure ) guy told us to: suck it up. Yeah, sure, mr billionaire, like you will have to change anything in your life

You're right. I'm speaking for me and my family. I am very willing to go without, buy less, spend more on necessities, make or find alternatives, etc. Including, stop relying on cheap electronics from china, the subject of this thread. But I can't speak to others. I'm lucky enough to work in a field that will always be in demand regardless of the economy, and to have exceedingly low expenses. But I got to that point by making certain lifestyle choices for myself over the course of several years, and perhaps not everybody would be willing to make the same choices.

Now, if people here are saying they are willing to not be able to pay for the stuff they been using all this time, because it's to expensive, but that's ok they will all find other hobbies ( or do they all think the US will magically start producing stuff on their own? ).

There's nothing magic about it. It's work. If it has to happen, it'll hurt, and it'll take a long time, and maybe won't work out in a lot of respects. That's what change is.

 

[hillslayer@]

If that would actually happen. Good. Great. That's what we should be doing anyway.

I'm not saying that this is what Trump is planning, like its his 5d chess move or whatever. But I bet I'm not the only one with the opinion that buying less of everything overall, buying less disposable goods, buying things that will last... all good things. Let's do that, even if it hurts, you know?

They want to force you to buy from the billionaires instead of direct, there's nothing good about that.

 

[marvin78]

They want to force you to buy from the billionaires instead of direct, there's nothing good about that.

I'd change that to

They want to force you to buy from differemt billionaires instead

as I a, quite certain someone in China ( besides the CCP ) has and will benefit from the world buying our cheap disposables.

It's indeed not a good thing, because I don't feel like paying more for stuff. I'm not an overconsumer like some / most people in the US... or if I am, it's local pasteries which won't really get affected that much by tarrifs..Being on the low side of the income ladder, I kind of depend on cheap Chinese production lowering prices for everything to be able to afford most of the things I'd consider leasure items.

... but who the .... is going to tell me I need to reduce my leasure time ( ... and what.. 'work more' .... ).

I'm all for some low cost relaxation on a dinghy on the river... but my dinghy comes from China, my pump, inverter, small bluetooth speaker and while my GreenChoice LiFePo4 batteries are assembled closer to home, I'm pretty sure somewhere in the supply chain we'll find Chinese components/cells. Or some low cost relaxation on the mtb trails.... just the components on my bike come from China for the most part, and I wouldn't be able to afford 'Western' prices for lots of items.. The same bike light I can buy for 10 euro on Ali, will cost me 40 here. The same 40 euro I spend on a better bike light on Ali, I get the cheap Ali version for locally. And there is no quality difference, not on the low end of the market anyway. There is only a lot of markup from people in the middle, if you don't buy directly.

And I am not in the buisnisness of letting myself be forced to sponsor local fat people getting fatter.

 

[marvin78]

There's nothing magic about it. It's work. If it has to happen, it'll hurt, and it'll take a long time, and maybe won't work out in a lot of respects. That's what change is.

.. but that's scary!

And, I feel if it's not going to work out in a lot of respects... probably we shouldn't be doing it ( in the manner we're doing now at the very least ).

You're right. I'm speaking for me and my family. I am very willing to go without, buy less, spend more on necessities, make or find alternatives, etc. Including, stop relying on cheap electronics from china, the subject of this thread. But I can't speak to others. I'm lucky enough to work in a field that will always be in demand regardless of the economy, and to have exceedingly low expenses. But I got to that point by making certain lifestyle choices for myself over the course of several years, and perhaps not everybody would be willing to make the same choices.

It's nice to hear this, it really is. I wonder how many you'd represent though. US consumerism, which is imho right now a cultural thing and attached to an commerce driven economy in the sense that people are very subjectable to trends and influences like commercials, is from a consumer pov not a bad thing. They are used to spending their disposable income on the 'gadget off the week'. That's not a bad thing, in fact it's a result of what the 'big fat peope' who are making sure you get exposed to as much commercials an hour as possible. are trying to do with their consumer oriented marketing.

I don't think people, in general, will accept being told that 'they need to have less stuff' only to have their items get more expensive then they can afford. The culture shock would be a lot less, if you'd start with addressing what is fueling the consumerism -> excessive advertising.

The only reason you're not seeing that, is because the fat guys who get fatter by getting people to spend money on things they might not need ( but for which an artificial, social, need is created ) don't want to give up their income model.

Tarrifs are only 'the best tool' if punishing the little guy is more important then changing the fat guy's behavior which is creating this consumerism oriented society in the first place.

 

[harrisonpatm]

I wonder how many you'd represent though.

I represent me, that's enough

 

[neptronix]

Sorry guys, had to let Marvin go.

Told him to stop injecting divisive partisan politics into various threads for the fifth time in 2 months.. he wasn't interested in complying or understanding the rule, just arguing sub-points and at some point changed his signature to some statements in favor of killing the president during the discussion. That was the final straw for me.

We're done with political extremists here who can't help but constantly bait partisan arguments and derail threads.

 

[neptronix]

Back to the topic.
Acer Becomes The First Manufacturer To Announce 10% Price Increase On Consumer Products Amid Trump Tariffs; ASUS, HP & Dell To Likely Follow

Kind of insulting for Acer for sure, they moved out of China and into Taiwan due to pressure from the previous administration, and they're getting squeezed again.
Looks like Taiwan is bending to the pressure on the other end:



And one of their largest companies, chip maker TSMC keeps pledging more chip production in the USA since Intel is in the dumps.




ebikes wise, looks like the UK removed their tariff? ( except on folding bikes... who must have got their way due to the massive power of the folding bike lobby )

'Final nail in the coffin': British e-bike makers fear for the future after China tariff scrapped


And today in the 'states we find out that bicycles and their parts are somehow not subject to steel and aluminum tarriffs:
Bikes and E-Bikes Avoid New Steel and Aluminum Tariffs | PeopleForBikes

"The good news for the bicycle industry: The primary HTSUS chapters for bicycles, electric bicycles, frames, forks, and bicycle components (8711, 8712, and 8714) are NOT listed in the Annex for steel or aluminum. Absent any further actions by the Administration, these products will not be subject to the additional 25% tariffs (but remain subject to all other tariffs, including applicable Section 301 tariffs)."


Looks like tarriffpalooza is getting dialed back and that's a good thing.

 

[99t4]

And today in the 'states we find out that bicycles and their parts are somehow not subject to steel and aluminum tarriffs:
Bikes and E-Bikes Avoid New Steel and Aluminum Tariffs | PeopleForBikes

But unfortunately the way this tarriffpalooza loophole is implemented domestic (US) bicycle manufacturers are at a disadvantage:

"As a result of the Section 232 tariff actions, domestic metal producers will gain competitive advantages and higher margins, but domestic product manufacturers will face increased costs for the materials needed to make products and stand to lose even more ground against foreign competitors."

 

[neptronix]

yeah

 

[Hillhater]

Looks like tarriffpalooza is getting dialed back and that's a good thing.

I suspect that the objective of the tarriffs was as a negotiaton starter !
it has certainly stirred up some debate and forced a few countries to pay attention.

Donald Trump's trade adviser Peter Navarro said Australia was "killing the aluminium market,

"What they do is they just flood our markets," Mr Navarro said of Australia's aluminium exports to the US.,

which is more than a little odd since Australian imports are less than 3% of the total USA aluminium imports ?
..and the USA is seriously short of aluminium supply anyway !

 

[neptronix]

I thought it was a taxation tactic but you could be on the money, it's about bending other people's arm.

Oh great, Australia targeted too, they're just #7 on this list:
Top 10 Aluminum-producing Countries

Look at China though.. dwarfs everyone else.. basically has a chokehold on the worldwide market, the saudi arabia of aluminum basically.

Okay from a government perspective - you need to make drones, ships, planes, etc out of aluminum so to have a predominate producer that is theoretically your adversity is a bad tactical position to be in.. That predominant producer is friends with your enemies. They could basically cut you off in order to win a war.

We have the same problem with chips, if we didn't inshore some chip production, and China takes Taiwan, we're could get into deep [expletive]. Currently, our government has been preventing China from getting their hands on high tech chipmaking technologies so that they don't compete with our local producers and also, don't end up with basically a monopoly on that too.

Maybe some actions are arm bending, others are about reducing these kinds of risks.

Unfortunate that these governments can't just get along huh? to everyone's downfall.

 

[fill]

Things are looking up for US/China trade now your both in the same gang with Russia and North Korea invading western Europe..
words cant convey the contempt..

 

[raylo32]

Yeah, sounds like Marvin crossed the line... but something else to think about... We live in a very strange world when half the population believes that expecting the president to obey the Constitution and follow the rule of law... totally non-partisan concepts... is now considered to be an extreme partisan position. It is also equally troubling when he vests power in people to act in matters where they have direct and compelling conflicts of interest and highly questionable motives, unexplored by any confirmation process and running a fake "agency" that was not authorized or funded by Congress. This is banana republic stuff and if we don't come to our collective senses soon, I give us maybe 20 years and we are done.

Sorry guys, had to let Marvin go.

Told him to stop injecting divisive partisan politics into various threads for the fifth time in 2 months.. he wasn't interested in complying or understanding the rule, just arguing sub-points and at some point changed his signature to some statements in favor of killing the president during the discussion. That was the final straw for me.

We're done with political extremists here who can't help but constantly bait partisan arguments and derail threads.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Yeah, sounds like Marvin crossed the line... but something else to think about... We live in a very strange world when half the population believes that expecting the president to obey the Constitution and follow the rule of law... totally non-partisan concepts... is now considered to be an extreme partisan position. It is also equally troubling when he vests power in people to act in matters where they have direct and compelling conflicts of interest and highly questionable motives, unexplored by any confirmation process and running a fake "agency" that was not authorized or funded by Congress. This is banana republic stuff and if we don't come to our collective senses soon, I give us maybe 20 years and we are done.

Keep it on the thread's topic, please

 

[E-HP]

Oops! I decided to revisit this thread and noticed it didn’t take long for it to turn political. Is this subforum still the right place for the thread? Maybe the biker bar off topic section instead? Granted, I didn’t read all 10 pages, just enough to get turned off.

 

[raylo32]

I'm done. I'm out.

Keep it on the thread's topic, please

 

[docw009]

My bag of cheap chinese widgets arrived. Two Newboller handlebar bags $12. An XOSS tail light with inertial brake switch $10, Two 20X jewelers loupes $5. Two LCD 0-60 voltmeters $10. A West bend bottle bag $3. Total of $40 USD.

For me, it's like going to dime store many years ago, and buying cheap toys.


,

 

[neptronix]

Oops! I decided to revisit this thread and noticed it didn’t take long for it to turn political. Is this subforum still the right place for the thread? Maybe the biker bar off topic section instead? Granted, I didn’t read all 10 pages, just enough to get turned off.

For the record.

I posted this in EV Business World and kept my posts as non partisan as possible, tried to dial it back a dozen times, etc for a reason and feel like letting the derailers win it by reclassifying the thread is sending the wrong message.

I didn't misclassify it, other people did.

We used to moderate like that, ie, let's throw that derailed thread in other toxic discussions and let them duke it out there. That used to work great until people became real a**holes about politics on the internet. That method broke during the 2020 election because what started out as expressing post-election butthurt escalated to brigading, death threats, doxing, and the problem also crept outside of OTD.

I'm not about to let that happen again. ES is a website for anyone across any political stripe to enjoy.. so yes.. i am going to continue to tell people to ramp down posting things that are antagonizingly partisan in nature.. even that which may be related.. but are not necessary to insert because they typically start a fight.

If that doesn't work.. we refer them to my evil twin: