The "best" SLA batteries?

[Reid Welch]

When, someday, the prices of Li come down a bit,
or when I become fed up with short-lived, current-incapable 12V/12AH SLA batteries,
I'll upgrade to Li.

For now, here's where I am: my four month old bike's OEM BB brand
12/12 AGM batteries are getting tired or possibly dried out (?).
They have not vented by overcharging, yet I've charged them always in series connection.
That's not goodfor balancing the two batteries (or three, I had three in series for long while).

Unwisely, last month I did a torture test marathon run around an oval running track--probably reversing a cell or two in one of the batteries, at the least--(my guess--I really ran them down).

For the time being I will probably replace these batteries with similar ones.

Here's the point of this thread:

BB offers several variations of their AGM type batteries.
One of these variants suggests advantages to me:
it's optimized for higher discharge rates.

I'll try to copy the PDF file here for ease of reference later on.
For now I'll find and post links to the BB PDF files

Which discharge characteristic would you choose for a hard,
one hour-or-less run of your lead sled bike?

(back in a bit)

Reid

 

[knightmb]

For the time being I will probably replace these batteries with similar ones.

Here's the point of this thread:

BB offers several variations of their AGM type batteries.
One of these variants suggests advantages to me:
it's optimized for higher discharge rates.

I'll try to copy the PDF file here for ease of reference later on.
For now I'll find and post links to the BB PDF files

Which discharge characteristic would you choose for a hard,
one hour-or-less run of your lead sled bike?

(back in a bit)

Reid

If you have the ability to immediately being charging the batteries after the one hour run, go with a high amp/fast discharge battery. If you have to ride half way, then let the batteries sit for a few hours before completing the rest of the trip before they can be recharged go with a deep cycle discharge battery that can handle a drained state longer.

I can vouch for killing a many lead acid batteries by leaving in a deep discharge state for more than 12 hours before beginning the recharge cycle which basically killed the battery. The one difference I noticed between the lead acid and NiMH battery packs for my bike was that the lead acid would really deliver the amps to pick up and go. The only thing is, after time it starts to lag and you'll notice a steady speed decline the entire trip. The NiMH delivered a contact amp rate until they were completely drained. So the speed remains the same all the way until the batteries kill over, but they don't mind that because you charge them up and they are ready to go again. Lead acid batteries can only get the same range if it's a one way trip because after that the battery will be too far gone to be useful again.

I see AGM lead batteries as a good mix of cost and range plus power. They don't cost as much as the other technology so if you are kind to them they will last. If you want to go fast and far that will really put a strain on the batteries then the other more expensive technology is the way to go. Otherwise you'll find yourself buying new AGM every 3 months from harsh use.

 

[knightmb]

And to add to this, my favorite AGM SLA battery has been the "Werker WKA12-12F2" 12V 12Ah AGM Battery that you can get from any 'Batteries Plus' store or website. My original e-bike had some generic brand of battery which I quickly killed after 3 months. The Werker batteries have been awesome in both range and the ability to handle a deep discharge state. So well that I still have them nearly 2 years later and they still work. These were being used on my mountain to e-bike conversion which went through a lot of abuse on the trails by me, so I was really impressed that I didn't kill these batteries after a year long use before I switched over to a road bike and NiMH battery packs.

 

[Reid Welch]

Wow, thanks. Nothing equals the value of tried-and-true experience.

I'll see if I can "afford" the Werker brand.

What caught my eye about the BB AGM version, made for particularly fast discharge, was that it should give a couple more amp hours capacity at
my-needs' high discharge rate. It is stated to have less cycle life in consequence.

NiMH like you use--those same form packs in the neat plastic frames,
would be a great alternative---cost effective;

what holds me back from them is the desire to have LI--those A123 batteries, in particular, in the long term.

I can get the BB high-rate 12/12 for $35 less shipping from---is it EVdeals? I forget at the moment.

Let's see what Batteries Plus charges for the Werker brand.
It'll be more, no doubt, but it'll be worth it if they prove more robust.
And they will, am sure.

Thanks very much,
Reid

 

[knightmb]

Let's see what Batteries Plus charges for the Werker brand.
It'll be more, no doubt, but it'll be worth it if they prove more robust.
And they will, am sure.

Thanks very much,
Reid

They charge $35.99, not sure what it would be after tax and shipping. But they still have them I see, which is great.
http://www.batteriesplus.com/p-32620-werker-12v-12ah-agm-battery-with-250-terminal.aspx

 

[Lessss]

Well I'll be using the SLA's that came with the bike untill they die and hopefully by then there will be firefly batteries on the market I can buy.

http://www.fireflyenergy.com/ffy.html

 

[Reid Welch]

Yes! I'll be getting those Werkers locally. There's a BP down US1 a ways.

They aren't the cheapest, but gee: I did not get much lifetime from the OEM batteries.

So wish me luck.

If they last for a year, super. Perhaps by then A123 batteries will be easily gotten for bikes.

I've been shy of LI for all the usual reasons. The A123 batteries look to be quite a bit safer/idiot proof.

---
Les, I'll read about your firefly batteries now.

Knight (refresh me on your name? Dan?)
Thanks for the guidance to Werkers!

Reid

 

[Elmweaver]

The "Werker" is a private brand labeled battery made for Batteries Plus (and batteriesplus.com) by East Penn Mfg. Co. (Deka). It is a direct replacement for the BP12-12.

The BP12-12 is a general purpose battery and I would not think it would be a good ebike choice. Even though it is pretty cheap (~$25). B&B makes a much better battery for ebikes called the EB12-12 which is designed for high drain and good cycle use.

They do cost more at around ~$30+ but they will get up to 300 cycles at 100% drain, not that one would really want to do that if it could be avoided, and lots more cycles at 70% or 50%.

Here is a link for one site that carries them:

http://www.powerstream.com/BBeB.htm

*Note- the page states a 10 amp rating which is incorrect it is a 12 amp at 20 hour rate battery, 10 at 2/hr rate.

You can read the spec pdf here:

http://www.powerstream.com/bb/EB12-12.pdf

I think you would be much better servered with these batteries even though I admit that the Werkers came with a better reference. :wink:

Thought I would share my research with you even though I do not have a ebike yet to back up what I am suggesting. But the specs say buy me compared to others I have seen. However, there is shipping cost vs tax dollars to consider so not sure how that would work out for you.

 

[knightmb]

The "Werker" is a private brand labeled battery made for Batteries Plus (and batteriesplus.com) by East Penn Mfg. Co. (Deka). It is a direct replacement for the BP12-12.

Yeah, the funny thing is, when I bought these, I thought they would be a short term fix (maybe last 4 months until I killed them) But they still work, even to this day. They don't get as much use since I use the NiMH packs now, but given their age I'm really impressed with what look like another generic brand at the time. I'm sure there are batteries better suited to the e-bike, I just had good luck with these. Keep in mind your mileage may vary, the new ones may suck for all I know :lol:

 

[Mathurin]

Interestingly, the SLA that came with the kingsmotorbikes kit are made like 12AH bricks, but it's stamped 14AH/10hour on 'em, I shit you not.

 

[Reid Welch]

They could well be optimized (and should be) for high rate discharge.
Those numbers indicate that's the case.
Perhaps more and thinner plates.
Probably fewer life cycles.

Knight is right: my luck with the Werkers may be no better than it was with the BB agm batteries that I (did) abuse (my bad).

That Batteries Plus is a national chain, it behooves them to spec for good service life of any batteries they sell with warranty.

So I will peg a set of generic Werkers and hope they'll last me a half year or so of daily use. I won't ever try another run-it-until-it-gimps torture test, though!

E, thanks for the research. That's what usually I would follow.
I was all set for BBs again. But knight's real-life luck sways me to go that way.

cheers,
Reid

PS: I really like this good old basic EASY to use phpbb forum format!

 

[Elmweaver]

@Reid

No problem my friend. I just thought I would share the info. I admit that with them also local to me, I went and looked at the batteries on their website hoping that they would be what I needed as well, but they do not publish any info to compare by.

I think I will try to stop in there the next time I visit my friend on the mainland since I drive right by them on the way. A little talk with them may solve the riddle and make the werkers the best choice.

I was thinking of replacing the cheap batteries that will be included with the kit I am looking at with a couple of the B&B EB20-12 when the time comes which should easily get me where I need to go and not drain them to deep making for lots and lots of cycles.

 

[Mathurin]

Well, the controller was said to handle 35 amps, it pushes only 20.
Top speed was said to be 25 mph, think more like 25 kph.
Batteries say 14Ah on 10hrs... Guess?

 

[Reid Welch]

Thank you for the pictures and for the new report! I love this stuff.

Q: Does the controller pass more than 20A IF you load the bike, say by slogging up a grade?
Does it never pass more than 20A?
Then yes, you nailed it: messed up ratings.

A fourth battery would be expected, anyway,
to make such a motor run the bike at 25 mph
That 25 kpm is pretty much the par for BL ungeared hub motors.

Inasmuch as the Chinese market -cannot accept- motors running their bikes past 25kph (law),
and your kit was made -for- the Chinese market,
this all fits.

And so, your vendor is only ignorant or misleading or both,
(ha ha, as if this were news to you)
to have presumed the Chinese rate in mph.
They're on the metric system.

Your kit actually operates pretty much as Shanghai intended!

Will the controller pass more than 20A at near stall speeds, full throttle?

best,
Reid

 

[swbluto]

The best SLAs are the cheapest ones you can find to provide as a stopgap while saving for the newest bad boy in town, LiFePO4.