The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly with my new Bionx PL350

[salger]

Hello everyone,

After following these forums for some time, I finally bit the bullet and bought a Bionx PL350 about a month ago. I want to share what I have learned from my experience.

The Good:
I purchased the Bionx system from http://smartbikeparts.com/index.php and I can't say enough good things about these guys. I paid MUCH less for the system and accessories than I would have in Canada. If you're interested in anything bike related, give these guys a call. Ask for Eric, he's great to work with. If your ordering from Canada, give him a little more and have him ship it by UPS (see the bad for more details).

The Bionx system itself is fabulous to operate. I wanted my electric bike to be hassle free to ride and give me a reasonable amount of exercise. Bionx system does both in spades.

If you find you need parts for your Bionx system fast (battery charger in my case) call JVBikes in Vancouver. They stock most things and ship fast. I got it the next day.

The Bad:
Within 5 days, my charger blew. Getting a quick warranty was painful. Bionx would not return my calls or e-mails, and the dealer couldn't contact them either. Eventually it was resolved, but I had to buy one from JVBikes so I could get to work (took my car off the road).

My wheel arrived warped and slightly oval in shape. I'm not sure if it was damaged during shipment, or just poorly built. The box was pretty badly beaten though as it was shipped US Post and was the probably to blame. Pay a little more to avoid this problem.

The Ugly:
Don't buy the 9 speed freewheel! It will not work with any rapid fire shifter as the gear spacing is from another planet. Instead, buy a 7 speed freewheel ($25) and on old 7 speed shifter ($20) and spare yourself the grief.

That's about it. Here's a picture of my beast.

 

[kyakdiver]

Nice clean bike! I like it. What kind of range do you get with this kit at full assist?

 

[Bigsherm]

Hey, Salger-

What shifter did you try with the 9-speed freewheel? How does the width of the freewheel compare to a 9-sp cassette?

What kind of speeds and range are you seeing?

Thanks!
Sherm

 

[salger]

Hi Sherm,

I tried the Shimano 105 shifter. In the bike shop, we compared the freewheel with several other 9 spd freewheel and cassette models and the spacing was larger. It would have worked with a plain shifting lever without indexing. My guess by the looks of the construction, It was an 7 or 8 spd with an additional gear(s) attached to the end so it may have worked as an 7 or 8spd, but whats the point then? My goal was to match it to the original 9 spd cassette so I could just drop it in without the hassle.

As for speed and range, I can keep the bike in the 30 - 35km/hr without too much effort. I like to keep it around 38km/h which requires significant effort, but is a great work out. The no-load speed of the wheel is around 43km/h. My commute is 38km a day, and the battery will do a day and a half (57kms) on a single charge at level 3 assist. I can get 2 days (76kms) at level 2 assist.

Cheers

 

[Sacman]

When you're doing 38km/h is that at level 3 assist... 4 assist... or with thumb throttle at full?
Is quick enough for you or do you wish it could move you faster?
Reason why I ask is because I live in California where the BioniX PL500 is available and I'm having a difficult time deciding between the PL350 and the PL500.

-Sacman

Hi Sherm,

As for speed and range, I can keep the bike in the 30 - 35km/hr without too much effort. I like to keep it around 38km/h which requires significant effort, but is a great work out. The no-load speed of the wheel is around 43km/h. My commute is 38km a day, and the battery will do a day and a half (57kms) on a single charge at level 3 assist. I can get 2 days (76kms) at level 2 assist.

Cheers

 

[salger]

When you're doing 38km/h is that at level 3 assist... 4 assist... or with thumb throttle at full?
I usually ride with level 2 on the way to work, and level 3 on the way home. I don't use level 4 at all. 38km/hr both ways is a grind. The bike goes about 33km/hr at full power and with no peddling. This is of course on flat land and low winds.

Is quick enough for you or do you wish it could move you faster?
I'm good with that the speed personally. I have hills on my commute and love that I can power up steep hills and keep my speed above 20km/hr (the 350 has more torque than the 500). If I didn't have hills and the roads were better in this area, I would have bought the 500 instead.

Hope that helps.

Ride on!

 

[JDJ]

good Day Salger. Read your comments on your BionX and couldn't agree more. I have a 350 NiMH and a 250 LiMG. After you fine tune the codes for 3773 and 0007 and 0008, you can have these things really personalized and humming at optimum performace and distance. One thing though; I went to the web site you posted for prices and I have to say that all their prices shown accross the board for all BionX stuff including the entire kits are a bit HIGHER than I paid here in London Ontario (in Can $$) and right at a retail bike shop who did very professional installations included with my purchases, so i didn't quite understand the part about " much cheaper than you would have paid in Canada". Hope you continue to enjoy the system.
JDJ

 

[DahonElectric]

Salger,

I have a Bionx P250 system on my 9 speed Dahon Mu SL with a 9 speed freewheel (Sun Race) and it seemed to be shifting ok, except maybe on the one of the bigger rings. My shifter is a SRAM X9 with a X9 derailleur if that helps. I find that for the most part, SRAM stuff shifts better than the ShimaNOs.

Anyhow, I don't like the quality of the Sun Race stuff. I blew one freewheel (9 speed) already with less than 130km mileage, which to me doesn't instill much high confidence. It freewheeled no matter how hard you tried to pedal the crankset! Had to ride home with the throttle switch and then all of the sudden it worked again. Thank goodness that I paid extra for that little switch option.. The dealer replaced the Sun Race with a new one and it seemed to be working just fine.. Too bad Shimano or SRAM doesn't make 9 speed freewheel hubs..

 

[salger]

Well, its been some time now from my original post and have over 2000Kms on the Bionx system. Here's an update. I have had only two technical issues with the system so far:

1) The spokes keep breaking on the Bionx wheel. I've replaced two so far. Has anyone else had this issue?
2) The battery capacity is dropping fast. It appears to have lost about 40% of its capacity after around 120 charges.

Other than that, the Bionx system has been excellent. I am very pleased with its performance and ease of use.

As for Smart Bike Parts, give them a call. They sold me the PL350 for considerably less than listed. I saved around $350 CDN plus I paid no PST or GST. Not sure why I wasn't charged taxes by customs, but got stuck with a $30 duty bill instead. Since then, I've been ordering parts regularly and still getting ridiculously good deals while not paying taxes.

Cheers

 

[pwbset]

1) The spokes keep breaking on the Bionx wheel. I've replaced two so far. Has anyone else had this issue?

Don't have a Bionx, but I've popped at least 8 spokes in the last 3 months. Thinking it's just a quality issue plus riding hard. In the future I'm going to get raw motors and let my local bike shop build the wheel with good steel.

2) The battery capacity is dropping fast. It appears to have lost about 40% of its capacity after around 120 charges.

Again not Bionx, but my Milwaukee LiMn packs have lost 15% total capacity after only 75 cycles.

Ebiking is clearly pushing these systems to their limits if you ride hard. :?

 

[DahonElectric]

Well, its been some time now from my original post and have over 2000Kms on the Bionx system. Here's an update. I have had only two technical issues with the system so far:

1) The spokes keep breaking on the Bionx wheel. I've replaced two so far. Has anyone else had this issue?
2) The battery capacity is dropping fast. It appears to have lost about 40% of its capacity after around 120 charges.

Other than that, the Bionx system has been excellent. I am very pleased with its performance and ease of use.

As for Smart Bike Parts, give them a call. They sold me the PL350 for considerably less than listed. I saved around $350 CDN plus I paid no PST or GST. Not sure why I wasn't charged taxes by customs, but got stuck with a $30 duty bill instead. Since then, I've been ordering parts regularly and still getting ridiculously good deals while not paying taxes.

Cheers

Heh Salger, do you have the link to their website?? Would be interested in buying a kit for my 700c bike from them if it's cheaper than my local shop..

Anyhow, I don't have any issues with my Bionx rear wheel after 700km over some nasty roads. It's still true. However, the dealer who did sell me the wheel had to rebuilt the wheel and redo the spokes before they certify it. Apparently, they knew that factory built wheels sucked and they ensure wheels coming out of their shop are as good as hand built wheels. In fact, they asked me to come back after 200km of riding which I did and the spokes are still good.. No issues thus far.. In fact, it survived multiple commute across Knight Street bridge (the bridge that killed 3 other poorly built wheelsets I bought thus far), so it is well made (or err well rebuilt!). I would suggest that if your spokes broke, do not replace the spokes but rebuild the whole wheel with new spokes and relace it properly. Factory lacing is machine built -- very poorly done and to be expected..

Secondly, the dropping of battery capacity is a known factor with Lithium Ion type batteries. A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles. So an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This drawback is not widely published. However, the time to get a fully charged battery is also reduced in proportion to the capacity.

And that is the sole reason why I skipped the Lithium option, unless you've got a lot of money to burn buying new battery replacements or you know EXACTLY that the battery you are getting was fresh out of the Sony factory. Sadly that if the battery has been sitting in the warehouse for quite awhile, you'll loose capacity while still paying full price for a fresh new battery.. That's the down side..

 

[salger]

5,000KM Update

Well, it's been an interesting ride so far. My last review discussed two major problems I was having with the Bionx system. The first being the spokes breaking on a weekly basis. The problem was poor metal used in the manufacture of the Bionx spokes. After ordering 3 sets of spokes from Bionx, I figured it was time to seek a solution elsewhere. Ebikes.ca was able to make some high quality 200mm replacement spokes that completely resolved this issue. Thank you Ebikes.ca for excellent product and service.

The second challenge is not going so well. The battery is on its last legs after 1.5 years and 5,000 kms. The capacity has dropped to around 20% of its original glory. Do I sell my kidney on E-bay and buy another $1000 battery with a 2yr life expectancy, or escape the Bionx addiction and try one of the many Chinese offerings?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated, especially ideas on how to replace the batteries within the Bionx battery case. I'm quite technical and have a formal education in electronics. I would love to hear from some of you very smart people.

Here are the challenges:
1) Pack is made up of 60 (5x12) Konion cells making the available space withing the pack 65mm x 90mm x 216mm approximately.
2) Bionx does not use cell balancing so no space for a BMS.
3) Would like to keep regenerative braking but not essential.
3) Resistive or laser welding done to join the 18650's ensures the pack thickness increases little from 65mm. (battery case just barely wider).
4) Pack must be able to provide 20amps at 36v continuously.
5) Lipos are a last resort (not sure I like the idea of a Lithium fire between my legs)

 

[OneWayTraffic]

There's custom electronics in both the battery, motor and handlebar console. They all talk to each other making simple replacement of a part a non-starter. It is possible however to recell the BIONX battery, I believe that there's a thread somewhere on this board about how to do that.

It would save you a bit of money, however it may be better to just fork out the extra money. Remember that battery life is getting better all the time, so the newer one may go longer.

At $1000 for 5000km that's 20c a km. Still cheaper than a car, but not more than a motor scooter.

 

[Takemehome]

Hi,

I'm not sure but I think that the controller is integrated in the hub wheel for a Bionx, then I don't think the battery as special electronic in it.

But I’m curious to see how Bionx battery is made and I may be wrong I don't know, good day!
Bikeraider

He could use the konions with the same little board that is in the battery and use the same charger.
6 new Makita packs = 60 cells much more less than $1000.
Or Doctorbass if he have some.

 

[Takemehome]

..................I'm asking my self about this lost in power after around 2000 Km, I think one of the parallel cell's in this power pack may be came defective I'm experiencing this issues this summer with my Konion's battery pack
One time one of my parallel group cells was dead (near 0 volt) and they other groups are ok, I have make a new parallel group and it's fix the whole battery pack since them I have no problem with it and didn't notice any loss in power and range. Good day!
Bikeraider

It's definitively not normal for his pack. ( good for at least 500 cycles.)
He could check his battery when half discharged to see if all 10S groups are balanced at the same voltage.
If a group is low, just like you did, change that group to have a good battery.

A PL350 Bion-x pack:
12x5 Konion cells 10S6P, one small board,
a charging port and a 7 pins connector ( 2 big, 5 small )

 

[deardancer3]

looks like a good side business, analyzing and reparing faulty cells in bionx packs.

d

 

[deardancer3]

looks like a good side business, analyzing and reparing faulty cells in bionx packs.

d

Hum I don't think Bionx really likes you if you can fix their battery pack at cheap cost, i'm just kidding! :lol:

Good day!
Bikeraider

Not me! no no no. Just stating the obvious for some one with the skills. no not me.

(I did do NIMH on Giants, it worked out good)

 

[gilnet]

14s would be 52v(51.8).Doc has extensive posts on these.I am building mak pax.Keeping prs together is important.resistance(?).If the Bionx brain draws off certain cell(s) this could cause problem similar to why mak pax fail.I don't really have a total grasp,but doc certainly does.