The joy of wheelbuilding............

[Jeremy Harris]

Although I've built/rebuilt a fair few bikes over the years, I've always fought shy of building wheels, for some reason. I decided that now was the time to have a go at building a wheel, just to see if it was as hard as I've always thought.

I'm really pleased to say that wheel building really isn't at all hard, in fact it's one of the most satisfying ways of spending an hour or so in the workshop I've had. I knocked up a rough truing stand from a few bits of wood, printed out the excellent instructions from the late Sheldon Brown (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html ) and just gave it a go.

I'm not sure what sort of tolerances wheels are normally built to, but I decided that +/- 0.5mm (+/- 20 thou) was good enough (if I'm wrong, then I'd appreciate a heads-up).

I'd strongly recommend having a go at wheel building for anyone who needs a new wheel, as it's far less daunting in reality than it seems (as I'm sure some here already know.)

 

[dogman dan]

It's quite easy really, particularly if you have a similar wheel handy to refer to when you get stuck. Especially easy to do the single cross lace common on hubmotors.

I shied away from it for years, despite getting quite good at truing wheels. Turns out, that first horrible experience at age 14 was not my fault. Now I realize that the rims I got in the mail were horribly bent from the start. No wonder I never could get those wheels true. I just thought it was hard for 40 years.

BTW. it was dear ol dad that taco bent the original wheels on my ten speed. He forgot my bike was on the back of the car on a rack. He shoulda bought me a new bike, instead he supplied me with two bent rims. Good ol dad. It did however motivate me to get steady work at 14. Loved the new peugot when I finally got it.

 

[Philistine]

Although I've built/rebuilt a fair few bikes over the years, I've always fought shy of building wheels, for some reason. I decided that now was the time to have a go at building a wheel, just to see if it was as hard as I've always thought.

I'm really pleased to say that wheel building really isn't at all hard, in fact it's one of the most satisfying ways of spending an hour or so in the workshop I've had. I knocked up a rough truing stand from a few bits of wood, printed out the excellent instructions from the late Sheldon Brown (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html ) and just gave it a go.

I'm not sure what sort of tolerances wheels are normally built to, but I decided that +/- 0.5mm (+/- 20 thou) was good enough (if I'm wrong, then I'd appreciate a heads-up).

I'd strongly recommend having a go at wheel building for anyone who needs a new wheel, as it's far less daunting in reality than it seems (as I'm sure some here already know.)

It is interesting to hear you say that Jeremy. Although you seem to do some pretty impressive technical stuff so I don't get too much comfort from the ease you found in it. I have been pondering giving it a go lately, but I have always been put off by the awful job I do on truing wheels - I figure if I make such a hash of truing, what hope have I got building one. When I true a wheel it is like when you do something like plastering or painting, where you end up forgetting what it is exactly you should be doing to get the result you want, and just as you think you have the hang of it, you realise you have made things worse. I don't have a truing stand though, I only true with the bike suspended and me turning the wheel.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

First off, my truing stand was knocked up from a couple of bits of 2" x 1" timber batten, with slots cut in the end for the axle and glued to a bit of scrap board with a couple of bits of batten across the bottom to hold them true. I used bits of wood held with G cramps as indicators for vertical and lateral truing.

I followed the instructions in the Sheldon Brown link and found them pretty straightforward. I trued the wheel roughly in the vertical first, then started getting it true laterally. After a few minutes I found that you get a feel for both the tension and the effect that any adjustments will have and can pretty much guess what a particular twist of a nipple will do............

I found that it helped when getting the wheel vertical true to find the high spot, then both tighten the spokes on the high side and slacken those on the opposite side at first, whilst the spoke tension was still quite modest. I certainly found it slightly harder to get the wheel true vertically than to get it true laterally.

It's a very satisfying process though, converting a rim, hub and a bundle of bits of wire into a nice rigid wheel.

 

[Farfle]

Building wheels is a very satisfying thing to do once you get the hang of it. I find that a nice rigid stand and a dial indicator is the way to go, feels almost like cheating.

 

[amberwolf]

And truing on the bike is easy enough, too--just take a couple zip ties and put them on the stays or fork, even with the braking surface of the rims, with the bike upside down or wheel otherwise held off-ground. Cut the ties the same length after you've put them on the stays (because the stays are not always exactly the same diameter due to stickers or other reasons), so that the tips just touch the rim of an already-true wheel (if you have one).

Then you can use them as guides for side-side truing. If you put them on the stay in a spot that puts their tips at the vertical edge of the rim, then you can also use them for roundness truing.

A laser pointer clamped (hose clamp) or tightly zip tied to the stay or fork will also work, pointed across the edge of the rim so you can just see the edge of teh dot when it's true. (or some otherwise consistent way of seeing it as you spin the wheel).


For some of my bikes like CrazyBike2, it's too hard to flip over so I build/true the wheels on a regular old bike frame sitting upside down.


truing without the tire on there is easier, because the tire's out-of-roundness or other visual cues from it's markings and such can fool your eyes into making mistakes in the truing process. It also makes it easier to use the slots on the nipples to turn them, if you still can once they get tighter. And also easier to remove and replace any that you accidentallly mess up by slipping with the spoke wrench (stripping the nipple's square corners off).


It still often takes me a couple of hours or more to build and true a wheel, but the building I usually do sitting in bed watching/listening to something on the computer that I wouldn't otherwise have time for, with some annoyed dogs surrounding me, so the extra time isn't a big deal usually. Truing...that's harder to find the time for. I get lost in the process often, not lost as in absorbed but lost as in "which part was I doing again?" :lol:

 

[Ykick]

Only caveat I can toss out is that it's a good idea to be proficient truing before attempting a wheel build. Easy to practice on old wheels until you have a good grasp of the fundamentals.

Lacing is quite satisfying and the ability to assemble good components makes it even more so IMO.

One of those things the LBS basically forced me into doing either because "we don't work on them electric bikes" or they were totally uninterested in protecting the wiring as they tossed my wheel around. No thanks, I'll just do it myself...

 

[ddk]

building a wheel is only satisfactory if you've been sent spokes of the right lengths.
-sum days it jus' donna madder.

 

[amberwolf]

This is true. If they're too short you're just screwed; if they're only a bit too long you might still be able to build and true it, then take a dremel or file to the bit sticking out of the nipple inside the wheel, so you don't shred your tubes later.


If you're using brand new parts, and the rims are straight and round like they should be when new, it's often easier to build and true a new wheel than to fix an old one.

I pretty much never have new parts to build from, so have little experience with doing that, but definitely building from old parts it's often easier to true whatcha got than to start a new one with the leftovers. :lol:

 

[cwah]

Nice one jeremy! You can now do everything from A to Z to get your bike :wink:

 

[Dauntless]

I was building (Should I say rebuilding?) wheels while I was still in gradeschool, it's oh so easy. . .

. . . .Until you get to the the part where you're trying to make it spin straight without that wobble from side to side. And let's not forget when you put it on the bike after it seemed fine, but you feel that rising and lowering just like being out on a boat. Or faster, really. You get so caught up in fixing the side to side you lose track of the up and down.

But even that isn't hard, it just might test your patience. Building to tolerance meant just how long a 12 year was going to stay with it for me, I didn't seriously measure anything. But mine always wound up right, sooner or later. Here I was mostly using the shattered junk from wheels others wrecked.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Building wheels is a very satisfying thing to do once you get the hang of it. I find that a nice rigid stand and a dial indicator is the way to go, feels almost like cheating.

Nice tip about the DTI, I might clamp one to my stand and use it to fine tune the wheel up. From what I've read so far it seems that getting the wheel true to within around 0.5mm ( 20 thou) is considered to be good enough, but I guess that, given enough patience and a DTI it should be possible to get better than this. Not sure if it'd be worth the effort, though, as tyres don't seem to be made to a particularly high tolerance AFAICS.

Buoyed by my success in building a 1 cross 20" rear wheel, I've just ordered a front hub and some more spokes to build a matching front wheel (I already have a few matching rims). This time it'll be a two cross build, so fingers crossed that the spoke length I've ordered comes out right..................

 

[dogman dan]

Someday I gotta get, or build myself a truing stand. You can make a pretty nice one from an old frame btw. Weld a couple nuts to it in the right place, then the bolts touch the rim, and can be set precisely. A fork can be made into one for 110mm.

I used to keep a scrap of baling wire twisted onto the frame, for daily truing of a hard ridden road bike wheel on pohole streets. I now have the zip tie there on the rear wheel all the time, the one that needs it most often. Suprisingly accurate with the ziptie, just have to listen closer for when it actually touches and makes the scrape sound.

For sure, anything wrong, like the rim is already wrecked, spokes wrong length, and you are hosed from the start.

My attempt to explain a simple hubmotor lace, like replacing a bent rim, here. http://www.electricbike.com/lace-hub-motor/ But my prefered method is to slap a rotor with a good rim and spokes on the motor stator. Somehow, I seem to have one laying around often, since I may fry a 9 c motor once a year at least.

 

[Tommy L]

I've heard people mention the word "DISH" .... is this the same as offset?

Jeremy, did you have to dish?


Tommy L sends... \\m//

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I've just clamped a DTI to the wheel and been around truing it again. The DTI made it a LOT easier, I should have thought to use it before. Being able to see exactly where the rim starts to run out of true makes it much easier to see which spoke or spokes need tweaking. I've ended up with about +/- 0.125mm (+/- 5 thou) lateral run-out and about +/- 0.25 mm (+/- 10 thou) vertical run-out. The vertical run-out is right at the rim joint though and no matter what I can't pull that in. Spoke tension seems good too, although I was surprised just how much the wheel relaxed when left overnight, admittedly after I'd been around pushing spokes together to try and take some of the locked in stress out.

My understanding (as a complete amateur) is that dish and offset are the same thing. I set this wheel up by tightening the drive (dished) side up first, pulling the rim over to the right by about the right amount to get it central in the forks. I then tightened the non-drive side, being careful to not pull the rim over. When vertically truing I started by only tightening the drive side at first, then bringing the non drive side up to tension when laterally truing. I'm not sure if this is the correct way to do it, but it just seemed to me to make sense to tighten the dished side first to hold the rim in the right place. There's not a massive amount of dish needed with a BPM motor and just a single free-wheel, maybe 10mm or so.

 

[Tommy L]

My understanding (as a complete amateur) is that dish and offset are the same thing. I set this wheel up by tightening the drive (dished) side up first, pulling the rim over to the right by about the right amount to get it central in the forks. I then tightened the non-drive side, being careful to not pull the rim over. When vertically truing I started by only tightening the drive side at first, then bringing the non drive side up to tension when laterally truing. I'm not sure if this is the correct way to do it, but it just seemed to me to make sense to tighten the dished side first to hold the rim in the right place. There's not a massive amount of dish needed with a BPM motor and just a single free-wheel, maybe 10mm or so.

Jeremy.....

This was great to know! I will build one......one of these days. Great info to share.... much appreciated!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

 

[dogman dan]

If you need to dish or offset a wheel a few mm, and the wheel is already tight, you simply tighten one spoke one full turn, then loosen the next spoke which pulls the other way one full turn. Once you go one time around the wheel, you should end up with a few mm of dish, but still have the rim very clost to the same straightness.

You might need this even for a wheel that is supposed to be a centered hub, like a disk ready 9c or clyte. Depending on what washers you needed to get your disk to line up, you might need to pull the rim a few mm one way or the other to keep a fat tire from rubbing the frame. You don't need different length spokes for dishing till you are pulling a wheel way over to one side.

One trick I spoke of in the article that I find helps a lot, is to begin by aligning all the spoke nipples. Then make all adjustments exactly 1/4 or 1/2 turn. That way you always put the wrench on square, and keep it that way. It greatly speeds up the process of fitting the wrench over and over if the nipples are always at the same angle, so the spoke wench is always fitted the same, then truned the same, over and over.

 

[Cyclebutt]

Built my first wheel at the community bike shop about two months ago. Then a month ago, I hit a pothole and bent my rear rim (rear DD hub), didn't even mark the Kenda street slick . Close examination proved the lace pattern was weak, spokes crossed but never touched. Had a matching rim in the garage, laced same pattern but made the spokes pass on opposite sides, torqued against each other, much stronger wheel now. Before building that first wheel, I would have been reluctant to modify the original spoke pattern.

Tip for first timers: You bent a rim. Get a matching rim and tape it to your bent wheel, being sure to line up the valve stem holes. Now just transfer the spokes to the other rim and true when done. Not the best way, but it's straight forward and helps build confidence for a build from scratch.

 

[rojitor]

I built a wheel just once, it was quite difficult because i don't have a truing stand. I felt satisfied with the result but the spokes were slightly out of true and i find it dangerous so i had to take it to the bike store after all. I guess i have to do it a few times to do it properly.

 

[amberwolf]

I built a wheel just once, it was quite difficult because i don't have a truing stand. I felt satisfied with the result but the spokes were slightly out of true and i find it dangerous so i had to take it to the bike store after all. I guess i have to do it a few times to do it properly.

See one of my previous posts in this thread for how to do it without a truing stand--it takes patience, but it can be done. Dogman's suggestion of welding bolts to an old frame or fork would be even better, and you could probably use Ubolts to clamp to the frame instead if you can't weld.

It greatly speeds up the process of fitting the wrench over and over if the nipples are always at the same angle, so the spoke wench is always fitted the same, then truned the same, over and over.

How come I can never find a good spoke wench when I need one?

 

[dogman dan]

I'm not sure you can buy a good spoke wrench for hubmotor nipples. Even on one wheel there are a few that don't fit the size you have.

I've taken to filing park tools red wrenches bigger, so I get a nice tight fit. Generally though, the best bet is the round multi size wrenches. Those ones are hard to fit to a nipple unless you orient the nipples. Then you can set the tool on the nipple perendicular to the rim much easier.

 

[Ypedal]

I made a video some time ago, covering a few of the basics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QZazAY0cc

[youtube]7-QZazAY0cc[/youtube]

Same as dogman, i now use a park tools tool widened up to fig 12g nipples.. the multi tools kinda suck as you loose your slot everytime you put it down.

I found that dishing with a hub motor, and high tension, is almost impossible, the rim ends up centered on the hub if you want both sides tight.

 

[Thud]

My favorite tool box spoke wrench for large gage/motorcycle spokes:
http://www.amazon.com/Rowe-USA-Spoke-Wrench/dp/B001DDH1UU

& for the anal-retentives:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=tm_1

I like to lace wheels in the evening sitting in the livingroom with a cup of coffee...for a truing stand I just use a loose fork or a rear swingarm to hold the wheel & slowly work it into tension & true as the stero plays some blues.

 

[Drunkskunk]

It's a very satisfying process though, converting a rim, hub and a bundle of bits of wire into a nice rigid wheel.

Amen!

Truing stands are nice, and using a Dial caliper is the absolute best way to get a wheel true. back in my Lycra wearing days We strived to get a wheel true to the thousandth of an inch (and failed with those old steel rims, but we tried anyway.)

Now days I build wheels by balancing the hub on a beer bottle with the axle in the neck, or set it on an empty cup if the hub is wide enough. its easier to rough in the spokes horizontal. For a truing stand I use the bike. That way I get the wheel centered exactly to the bike, not the stand's approximation of what the bike's center should be. I don't use a Caliper anymore. I true a wheel by sight and feel. With a disk brake, thats close enough for my needs

I think wheel building is one of those things you're eaither going to love or hate. Its easy and rewarding if you have patience and good spatial reasoning abilities. Its a pain if you don't.

 

[Doctorbass]

I might have a trick for those who wanna build their wheel but that have too long spokes.

It happened to me few times when i wanted to keep the 12g spokes from the old Crystalyte rim, but since the ERD ( Effective Rim Diameter) is not the same with stronger rims like the MTX39 or the Doubletrack or Halo, the spokes become too long with the smaller inner diameter of the rim. Or when you order spokes that reveal to be too long , etc

The SOLUTION:

I'm adding some washers or even some stainless steel nuts as spacer.
this have two advantages:
first, it let you keep the actual spokes lengh
and the washer or nuts are spreading the pressure on the rim with better uniformity and decrease the risk of crack near the holes on the rim.

It work really nice for me!! I built 3 wheel with that technique and it work really well!

You just need to find the right nut inner diameter that match with the nipple diameter you are using and might have to drill the acces of the eyeslet of the first wall to let you insert the nut with his higher outer diameter and that's all.

Overall it will save you 40-50$ of spokes and will increase the tension limit of the spokes on the holes.

ex: