2008 CRF250R - QS138v3 70H - ANT - Sanyo UR18650-RX 20s20p - Votol EM260

[amberwolf]

I actually did some of such poor-man's-scanner-aided-design for my EXC. I've posted about it on advrider, but for some reason my photos there seem to disappear :| and I recently had a NAS server failure that impacted a lot of my photos from 2024. Maybe they'll come back: 2021 KTM 500 EXC-F setup for dual sport

I try to copy all my data regularly (every week to month, depending on the data) to multiple offline harddisks, which alll then store in different rooms of the house. (back when I had multiple computers all working at the same time, I copied each one's data to all the others). Each backup doesn't overwrite the previous, but goes beside it, so a fail-during-write doesn't trash the backup and potentially lose all copies of something.

So far, except for one occasion a couple decades ago, that has prevented general data loss.

That time was an unusual moment, where I had to shuffle data among drives to make room, and they were all online at that moment, all writing data, and there was a grid failure that damaged the PSUs in several machines, and took the system down during write...I actually lost multiple harddisks, and had data corruption on virtually every other one. I still had enough redundancy in all the previous backups that I didn't lose very much data, but there was some.

But long story short, i used polycam to scan the plastic tail part, measured a known dimension to get the scale right, and then imported it as a reference mesh in CAD (I use Siemens SolidEdge because it's free and has no restrictive licensing like Fusion or OnShape).

Apparently even the free one is a "subscription". Subscription software is a total no-go, because it means my data is held hostage to their policies, as the software either has a time-out requiring updates to keep using it, or phones home to see if it's still ok to run. That means they can disable access to my data on purpose, accidentally, or simply by ceasing operations (or even by lack of internet access for whatever reason).

(there are a number of programs for various things that I'd love to buy (if I had the budget) but are subscription, so are unusable. Some companies have gone subscription and then gone back to "ownership" models because of customer loss, but very few do that. Most don't care what customers think and just shove their way (of whatever things) down the customers' throats).

I'm still using an ancient music-creation software, Cakewalk SONAR. I won't use their new stuff: the company went subscription, then went under, then were bought by another company who brought it back "for free" but with forced regular updates, logins to their internet site to even open the software on your own computer, and subscription...then they stopped updating the free one (but it still has all the forced updates, logins, etc so they can nuke it whenever they want, which has already happened multiple times because of various errors on their end), instead making a new paid-only subscription version that they also force-update. (if you don't update, it will just stop working as it can't login to their server and then you can't run the program or access your files). Users start threads about this issue all the time on their forums, and instead of the company replying or changing their methods to at least provide the *option* to purchase a perpetual license that doesn't have to ever go online/login/update/etc., they just lock all such threads, including any other kind of thread where someone mentions "subscription". Not very user-friendly company (but back when I got mine, they were the best at it).

Generally speaking, for parts that need a good interface with a mesh scan but otherwise are mostly for looks, I think Blender is a decent choice as well. Given proper scaling, you can create very complex, curved shapes very easily, much more easily than parametrically modelled surfaces. I know that stuff like BlueSurf and other advanced tools can help with that, but we're doing hobby 3d-printing not product design for millions for injection molding. I'll likely use Blender for CRF fairings if I ever get to that point (I'd like to cover the battery and cabling in additional layer of fiberglass on the outside).

I've been working slowly on learning Blender, but it's not an easy UI, it could be designed much better. (I haven't found any good UIs yet).

And finally, if you actually need a part to truly fit, not just conform to the shape roughly, the mesh is mostly used for clearance purposes, and in the cad you can create reference surfaces (planes for flats, cylinders for holes) to build the design off of parametrically.

For those kinds of things I can probably just do that to start with...the thing I "need" the scanning for is all the irregular surfaces and shapes that are virtually impossible for me to model even closely (much less accurately) without it.

But I haven't gotten to doing any of this stuff yet, so we'll see how it works out when I do--it might be easier to start with a scan either way.

One issue with scanners is that they require quite a powerful PC to work well. In my future workshop, I envision a connection to a server rack where the GPUs would sit, but right now dragging my PC to the garage is rather out of the question. A laptop would need to be quite beefy as well and they're prone to overheat -

I have some old rackmount HP servers that were originally used in sets to run 3D-rendering for animations, that I don't yet have setup for anything. They're not efficient, or quiet, but they do have more CPU and memory than my everday computer, and are running Windows10. I'd already intended one of them to be dedicated to 3D modelling / printing applications, and can easily dedicate more than one to that if it's necessary.

They don't have much in the way of GPU. I have an old "PNY NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 1 GB Enthusaiast Edition" that can go in there, but might have to power it from a separate (external) PSU; it's probably better than any other GPU I have but that isn't saying much vs today's stuff It would probably be more useful (barely?) in the wolfy-bot project's server to help run whatever "AI" I find to do the behavioral controls. I figure it can't be very good since I see them on ebay in a quick search for $5 with free shipping. :lol:

so the photo-based scanning apps are actually really decent for the sweet price of 0 (well, Polycam itself has like a limit of scans or something, which i haven't hit yet - I'm also not sponsored by them or anything, I just found it to work reasonably well; I've used 123D in the past and it was markedly worse.)

How many scans? (you might have missed typing the number in?)

 

[bananu7]

I haven't missed the number, I just forgot what it is. I dislike the fact that it's a subscription, but you get GPU processing of your input data for free, and then you can just download the model. Treat it as a service, not tool. That's why I use SolidEdge, that doesn't require any subscription. I think you need to type in some email but that's generally it, and you retain ownership of all your files.

As for reference surfaces, you might have not gotten that (or not) but the point is that CADs (and special scanner software, but I'm still thinking polycam or other photo apps here) have features for _extraction_ of those surfaces automatically. There's a vast difference in working between a mesh/point cloud and parametric shapes.

Won't comment on the NAS as that's already way off topic, let's just say I had backups on S3, just improperly (not exhaustively) configured. That's life vOv.

Back on topic, since the enclosure is on, I decided to do some prep on the battery to improve upon the third party situation. Hate to say I would have done a much better job if I did all of it myself...

Feeling suitably inspired, I decided to see if I can get my controller up and running. It took maybe 5 minutes, and I got it connected to the software and programmed. I already know all the parameters by heart because I've read the manual so many times... Felt like I've done it before. I programmed a conservative 100A bus limit, the rest will have to be done with the motor connected.

 

[bananu7]

Åh, and one more thing. The Ant BMS app is really quite nice. Indeed no need for precharge resistors needed, it's easy to turn the battery off just from the app, in charge/discharge directions separately, and initiate the auto balance. I like it especially because that means I won't need any extra cables for a switch from the battery, I can turn it off remotely.

 

[amberwolf]

I haven't missed the number, I just forgot what it is. I dislike the fact that it's a subscription, but you get GPU processing of your input data for free, and then you can just download the model. Treat it as a service, not tool. That's why I use SolidEdge, that doesn't require any subscription. I think you need to type in some email but that's generally it, and you retain ownership of all your files.

As for reference surfaces, you might have not gotten that (or not) but the point is that CADs (and special scanner software, but I'm still thinking polycam or other photo apps here) have features for _extraction_ of those surfaces automatically. There's a vast difference in working between a mesh/point cloud and parametric shapes.

I appreciate the info...sorry for the OT.

 

[bananu7]

No worries! We can always continue that in a proper forum section/thread and not spam this for other readers

I wanted to add a bit more about the controller setup. While it was easy, there were some quirks that might be useful for others to know.

Votol EM260S quirks

1) The controller has M6 mounting bolts, which are quite small for the currents they need to carry. Ideally the tabs would have M6 holes - I erroneously ordered my cables with M8, I'm pretty sure with enough tension that will be fine. As an alternative option, I was thinking about making adapter bolts with a cylindrical 8mm section and M6 thread, but I don't think it will be necessary.

2) The proper inputs to use seem to be the ones labeled B+ and B-. Because of the fuse, the B- terminal is unconnected to anything, and the unlabeled connectors is the actual B+ input to the controller - at least I hope that's the case!

3) To turn the controller on, you need an extra wire to connect the "on" signal on grey wire to the battery voltage (I also saw mentions of voltage higher than 35V). In the original loom, there's a purple E-brake cable that has a mating connector, looking like it could be possible to loop the two together, but they fit by accident - a separate cable is needed. I have to think about what I'll use to pull that signal out.

4) Just for laughs, I turned the BMS discharge off while the controller was on. It properly reported voltage gradually dropping (likely from input filtering caps) and kept working until 11.7V, which was the last reported value. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like it could be possible to turn it on with much lower than nominal voltage for programming purposes. I know most people will likely do everything in situ, but it might be helpful to get the connection working near the computer desk like I did.

I won't be using a battery contactor or physical switch of any kind thanks to the BMS, so other than handling the "ON" cable, I have two current things to figure out.

Things to figure out:

1) BMS enable cable
there are two small black wires that come out of the BMS, and are used to turn it on if it (I believe) goes to sleep. I see two options here:

1A) keep them permanently connected and assume it won't drain the battery too quickly if it's not in sleep mode
1B) use some sort of a magnetic reed switch to energize it momentarily if the bike goes to sleep through the enclosure.

I don't want to add any more holes to the battery case than necessary, so using a magnet seems quite fun, also as a secondary theft prevention device.

2) Magnetic safety switch
speaking of magnets, that's the second one I'll have on me, on the handlebar. The obvious question here is what should it cut? I believe there are at least three options here:

2A) controller enable - that would result in a hard shutoff of the controller. Pro: should be quite reliable; Con: I'm afraid if it might hurt the controller if it happens with WOT, as it won't be able to ramp the current down gradually. I hope they have good flyback protection :S
2B) throttle in series - that's the "stupid, but works" way of doing it. Switch pops, throttle goes to 0, no input means wheel stops. Pro: should be also quite reliable unless the controller goes into some weird mode, the controller doesn't turn off; Con: perhaps a bit weirder wiring required.

Another thing to 2B is that I might want to experiment with a form of traction control in the future, and that would likely reside on the throttle line as well, so the cabling might not be that bad if properly planned.

2C) some aux controller input that makes the wheel stop - brake, sidestand, whatever... I have to trust the controller to "do the right thing" here, but it's trivial to wire up.

All of the wiring methods should fail into disable - e.g. if the switch fails, the cable is damaged or unplugged, it should behave as if the switch was tripped.

Eager to hear your thoughts on the above!

 

[halg]

No worries! We can always continue that in a proper forum section/thread and not spam this for other readers

I wanted to add a bit more about the controller setup. While it was easy, there were some quirks that might be useful for others to know.

Votol EM260S quirks

1) The controller has M6 mounting bolts, which are quite small for the currents they need to carry. Ideally the tabs would have M6 holes - I erroneously ordered my cables with M8, I'm pretty sure with enough tension that will be fine. As an alternative option, I was thinking about making adapter bolts with a cylindrical 8mm section and M6 thread, but I don't think it will be necessary.

2) The proper inputs to use seem to be the ones labeled B+ and B-. Because of the fuse, the B- terminal is unconnected to anything, and the unlabeled connectors is the actual B+ input to the controller - at least I hope that's the case!

3) To turn the controller on, you need an extra wire to connect the "on" signal on grey wire to the battery voltage (I also saw mentions of voltage higher than 35V). In the original loom, there's a purple E-brake cable that has a mating connector, looking like it could be possible to loop the two together, but they fit by accident - a separate cable is needed. I have to think about what I'll use to pull that signal out.

4) Just for laughs, I turned the BMS discharge off while the controller was on. It properly reported voltage gradually dropping (likely from input filtering caps) and kept working until 11.7V, which was the last reported value. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like it could be possible to turn it on with much lower than nominal voltage for programming purposes. I know most people will likely do everything in situ, but it might be helpful to get the connection working near the computer desk like I did.

I won't be using a battery contactor or physical switch of any kind thanks to the BMS, so other than handling the "ON" cable, I have two current things to figure out.

Things to figure out:

1) BMS enable cable
there are two small black wires that come out of the BMS, and are used to turn it on if it (I believe) goes to sleep. I see two options here:

1A) keep them permanently connected and assume it won't drain the battery too quickly if it's not in sleep mode
1B) use some sort of a magnetic reed switch to energize it momentarily if the bike goes to sleep through the enclosure.

I don't want to add any more holes to the battery case than necessary, so using a magnet seems quite fun, also as a secondary theft prevention device.

2) Magnetic safety switch
speaking of magnets, that's the second one I'll have on me, on the handlebar. The obvious question here is what should it cut? I believe there are at least three options here:

2A) controller enable - that would result in a hard shutoff of the controller. Pro: should be quite reliable; Con: I'm afraid if it might hurt the controller if it happens with WOT, as it won't be able to ramp the current down gradually. I hope they have good flyback protection :S
2B) throttle in series - that's the "stupid, but works" way of doing it. Switch pops, throttle goes to 0, no input means wheel stops. Pro: should be also quite reliable unless the controller goes into some weird mode, the controller doesn't turn off; Con: perhaps a bit weirder wiring required.

Another thing to 2B is that I might want to experiment with a form of traction control in the future, and that would likely reside on the throttle line as well, so the cabling might not be that bad if properly planned.

2C) some aux controller input that makes the wheel stop - brake, sidestand, whatever... I have to trust the controller to "do the right thing" here, but it's trivial to wire up.

All of the wiring methods should fail into disable - e.g. if the switch fails, the cable is damaged or unplugged, it should behave as if the switch was tripped.

Eager to hear your thoughts on the above!

Don Cox has an interesting idea for the safety switch here. Seems like he suggests your 2C option. Good luck!

 

[bananu7]

@amberwolf you might be interested in that one. Pardon the messy floor, thankfully that didn't pick up too much. I mostly wanted the area on top of the battery and i think that worked great. This took me about a minute to do.

Screenshot for peeps without 3D programs (you can open it in just about anything, though - just google "GLTF viewer")



I mostly focused on one area so that one has more detail



Not enough to design off of, but to get a rough idea for panel sizing and cable routing? Sure.

 

[bananu7]

And just to confirm, Votol boots with low voltage just fine, just reports it as 0.0 and immediate undervoltage fault (understandable). I'm not feeling great today, some cold or whatever, so instead of wrenching i might see if I can talk to it outside of the official app.

 

[bananu7]

another 3D scan for another hiccup. Because of... reasons, I made the battery enclosure much thicker in the lowest "step" section than required. I was sure i checked it before that it won't interfere with the motor. I was sure the motor won't protrude past its mounting points and it will all have plenty of space.

Needless to say, I was wrong. I spent the entire afternoon mulling my options and I think that making another set of motor mounts to pull the motor further back is the most cost effective and simultaneously the best total outcome option. I need about 5mm of clearance, which I think I do have space for in the back. This time I'll likely 3D print a new set of mounts just to see how it lines up in practice. Thankfully with them being so cheap, it's really not much of a loss, plus I didn't spend any time actually fabricating them.

I added a new category to my build sheet: "wrong part ordered". I have no idea what I was thinking when I ordered the 50cm power cables. With the battery now in place, and the cables most likely exiting from the front, I added a whopping 30cm to them to make sure I can route them properly. Still keeping AWG1 (50mm2) though, despite the motor being just 20mm2 per phase. That was actually a more expensive mistake, but at least I get to keep the cables for some future use.

I've also finally ordered the intra-battery cables that will connect the BMS to the fuse and terminals, so once I make the cover, I should be able to fully assemble the battery. That's great because if in the meantime I can position the engine, I can immediately go to live controller testing - I don't need the final controller enclosure for that just yet, and it would be great to see a spinning sprocket.

 

[bananu7]

I looked over the CAD files, tried everything with the swingarm on and decided I didn't make a mistake and I just don't have more clearance with the motor (i.e. I did a good job with that part). I decided to cut off the front engine mounts, which worked wonderfully. I left enough meat there for a new set of holes so I retain the possibility to mount the battery there, but now with everything in place I feel much better about the project moving forward.

I also did a test fit of the battery, and given the enclosure is bigger than needed, it was still a pleasant surprise that it... just fit:



Everything feels reasonably tight in there - no need to hammer it in, slides out easily, I might just add a bit of foam to cushion it inside. The whole thing with the enclosure weighed at 24kg.

 

[bananu7]

I had a busy week so far, so just a sneak peek of what I've been working on:

* I managed to sniff out the Votol protocol on the PC side (PC-usb adapter) as well as the hardware side (usb adapter-votol). Confirmed the data format used and CAN bus transfers. Parts to interface with it directly should arrive today. I also ordered a couple of display options, because I decided I want to have some onboard monitoring after all. We'll see how the programming goes and how it looks IRL
* The battery case can now progress and I just need to get down to it and make the top cover foam model. I ran out of gelcoat so 1kg more is already in the mail as well, will be ready for the weekend. The cover need to extend enough to fit all the cabling and the big 500A terminal blocks, and hopefully an internal fuse as well. I just wouldn't want it to protrude in front of the seat too much.
* The seat is still a bit higher than stock, because even after cutting the frame mounts down, it doesn't want to go all the way in. It might require some more finessing as I'd like to get the battery as low as possible to avoid the top of the seat rising up. The wrap is folding on itself because of that - that can be fixed by pulling it off and re-upholstering in new shape, but I'm concerned about ergonomics.
* I still haven't figured out whether to put the seat mounting nub on top of the battery cover itself or on another layer of fiberglass cover. Using the battery to support the seat doesn't sound too bad, but I'm a bit worried that the stress on it might wear the hole out and produce a perfect top-loaded water entrance.
* As far as additional covers, I want to cover at least the top edges of the battery, running parallel to the seat. I'm not going to do wide fairings like the OEM bike, but the current protruding corners aren't great for ergonomics, either. I also want to cover the mai power cables that will run on both sides of the bike towards the controller box.
* The controller box also needs some love - the original builder repurposed the OEM airbox, which fits great but is open on both sides (only covered by the rear fairings which I'm not going to use. Plan would be to build a new fiberglass box that can enclose the controller and wiring if not watertight then at least without gaping holes. I'm not sure how I'd get such a shape into the subframe, though, it might need to be assembled in parts.
* I've cut the motor mounting points to adapt it to my holders. Regularly, QS138 wants to be supported on the outside edges of the mounting points. However, in my case, with 6mm thick brackets, if they are to go inside of the bottom frame opening, the engine couldn't be moved far enough to the left as the support would collide with the frame. Hence my plan to move the left-side mounting bracket to the inside instead. It should still offer plenty of support, while making chain alignment easier. To that effect, I need to start machining around 10 spacers needed in total for all the various mounting points to mount the motor perfectly perpendicular and straight with the chain. Thankfully that should be a one-day job with a lathe, and from then I can keep the motor and swingarm bolted on and start thinking about putting the bike back on its wheels. Before that happens, though, I need to give everything a proper cleanup.

 

[bananu7]

It's awfully cold outside, so I decided to turn my Votol into the world's worst volt-meter. Here it is showing 9.7V (last value it stopped at when i was shutting it off). I got the CAN bus to work and all the major parameters read. Now it just needs some software to turn it into an onboard computer/tripmeter. Some fun, longer term plans include - a datalogger, an IMU/compass, traction control...

What do you think about using LED matrix as a display? I'm using the bag it came in as a makeshift tinted contrast screen. I think I have enough tinted polycarbonate left.

 

[halg]

It's awfully cold outside, so I decided to turn my Votol into the world's worst volt-meter. Here it is showing 9.7V (last value it stopped at when i was shutting it off). I got the CAN bus to work and all the major parameters read. Now it just needs some software to turn it into an onboard computer/tripmeter. Some fun, longer term plans include - a datalogger, an IMU/compass, traction control...

What do you think about using LED matrix as a display? I'm using the bag it came in as a makeshift tinted contrast screen. I think I have enough tinted polycarbonate left.

View attachment 365355

This is interesting. One drawback in my build is not knowing a way (yet) to get the temps on the battery, controller and motor on a single display. I believe that information is there in the controller. But haven't figured out how I can get it displayed without resorting to multiple external sensors. Even if it was not displayed in real time and available via a log would be great and probably sufficient. I'd love to hear if you have any thoughts or ideas on that.

 

[bananu7]

This is interesting. One drawback in my build is not knowing a way (yet) to get the temps on the battery, controller and motor on a single display. I believe that information is there in the controller. But haven't figured out how I can get it displayed without resorting to multiple external sensors. Even if it was not displayed in real time and available via a log would be great and probably sufficient. I'd love to hear if you have any thoughts or ideas on that.

You're also going to use EM260-SGTP? If so, most of what you want is there. Specifically, the controller has:

1. RPM
2. Battery voltage
3. Battery current
4. Controller temp
5. "External" temp - I think this is from the motor?
6. Status of the ride mode, as well as inputs (park, reverse, stop)
7. Fault codes

in its regular data frame. I plan to make use of all of the above.

As far as the battery goes, ANT BMSes also have a CAN port. I've been thinking about utilizing that one as well to query the BMS directly from the display, although it's perhaps secondary to me as the controller already shows most of the interesting features (voltage, temps) and i can use the phone app to check up on it.

The hardware I used is very inexpensive, so building your own version would be quite easy. If you instead wanted to utilize the DKD display and feed your own data to it (e.g. with a button to switch what gets displayed) you'd likely need to intercept the LIN communication between the controller and the display. Personally I don't like neither the looks nor the size of those screens very much, that's why I decided to go with my own. I also bought a couple tiny OLED displays to try out as a miniminalist version, but I think the LED dot matrix looks pretty presentable.

I've noticed you also asked about the differences between 260SGTP and 260SP in another thread. I was actually able to find the info on that; SGTP is an updated version with the fuse being parallel to the shorter side of the enclosure. Parameters are as follows:

• 260SP: 190bA rated, 450bA sport ("boost"), 760pA ("peak"), 13.68kW rated max, 150% FW, 2.7kg, IP65
• 260SGTP: 250bA rated, 500bA sport, 600pA (though I've seen 690pA mentioned), 36kW rated max, 200% FW, 2.05kg, IP67

Oh, and everything I did for comms with the controller is here: GitHub - bananu7/votol: Reverse engineering notes for Votol EM controller

 

[halg]

You're also going to use EM260-SGTP? If so, most of what you want is there. Specifically, the controller has:

1. RPM
2. Battery voltage
3. Battery current
4. Controller temp
5. "External" temp - I think this is from the motor?
6. Status of the ride mode, as well as inputs (park, reverse, stop)
7. Fault codes

in its regular data frame. I plan to make use of all of the above.

As far as the battery goes, ANT BMSes also have a CAN port. I've been thinking about utilizing that one as well to query the BMS directly from the display, although it's perhaps secondary to me as the controller already shows most of the interesting features (voltage, temps) and i can use the phone app to check up on it.

The hardware I used is very inexpensive, so building your own version would be quite easy. If you instead wanted to utilize the DKD display and feed your own data to it (e.g. with a button to switch what gets displayed) you'd likely need to intercept the LIN communication between the controller and the display. Personally I don't like neither the looks nor the size of those screens very much, that's why I decided to go with my own. I also bought a couple tiny OLED displays to try out as a miniminalist version, but I think the LED dot matrix looks pretty presentable.

I've noticed you also asked about the differences between 260SGTP and 260SP in another thread. I was actually able to find the info on that; SGTP is an updated version with the fuse being parallel to the shorter side of the enclosure. Parameters are as follows:

• 260SP: 190bA rated, 450bA sport ("boost"), 760pA ("peak"), 13.68kW rated max, 150% FW, 2.7kg, IP65
• 260SGTP: 250bA rated, 500bA sport, 600pA (though I've seen 690pA mentioned), 36kW rated max, 200% FW, 2.05kg, IP67

Oh, and everything I did for comms with the controller is here: GitHub - bananu7/votol: Reverse engineering notes for Votol EM controller

Thanks for all that. Especially the github repo!!!

 

[bananu7]

I did some more work on the display - everything is commited to GitHub, just perhaps needs some cleanup. I wrote a simple "graphics driver" to more easily put digits where I wanted on the led matrix screen, and a compositor to enable full-screen shifts for mode changes. If only I could do the electrical and mechanical bits with such ease

I've also started learning CAN properly this time, and I keep thinking that since I will have my display on the bars, routing extra cabling to the controller inputs sounds crude. I could simply wire all of the buttons to my display, and send everything via 4 wires - low voltage power +/- and CAN H/L. It'd simplify the whole installation massively. The idea came to me after observing that the desktop app actually seems to have a control section - you know, the one that slides out on the right:



If that can send commands to the controller, I just need to sniff the packets for the mode switches, as well as reverse and park modes, and we should be good. I suppose I could even do the throttle signal via CAN, if that panel doesn't lie, but I definitely don't feel confident enough for that.

The main hiccup with getting this to work is that the controller doesn't react to this panel in faulted state, and it won't get out of faulted state until i connect the motor and the battery...

 

[bananu7]

I didn't snap any pics, but I've made some progress on the battery cover. I'm not using the super-hard and messy filler this time, opting for lightweight construction stuff. No smell, easy to apply, let's just hope it holds. I've bought to other fillers to try out and see which one works best.

I had some hiccups with the fitment, but nothing close to the previous issues. I started today by cleaning the shop, so i finally have some free space around the bike. I've also mounted the frame properly to the lift. I cleaned up some of the welds on the frame and right now the seat actually clears the battery by about 1mm or so; once the cover goes on top, it should lift only marginally, and I can live with that.

This brings me to another point, though; the original gas tank had a seat nub to prevent it from lifting. While I could add it directly to the battery cover, I'm slightly worried about it ripping out, or simply enlarging the hole and letting water into the battery. After all, the seat will move around a tiny bit and apply some force on the nub. I suppose I could add a metal washer during laminating to hopefully prepare this point and not rely just on fiberglass to hold that bolt in place. I could then also seal the bolt inside - although in that case it might require some extra holding power to prevent it from spinning when i get to attach the nub. Maybe I could machine the new nub as one piece...

EDIT: Actually writing this has given me and idea. Behold:



I could laminate that inside of the top cover, in between the layers. The holes are meant to stop it from spinning and give the resin a better grip. I'd make it star shaped or square or whatever, but just holes are easy enough to do on a drill press, and the part base part would fit on my lathe.

The alternative is to put some sort of cover on the battery in this area, pull it down somehow and attach the seat to that. Upside: no extra hole in the battery cover, could additionally secure the battery itself. Downside: it might not hold the seat as well, I need to make the cover fit somehow.

 

[bananu7]

Well, whatever, everything's been done before. I've just reinvented a composite insert At least that's quite inspiring that I was on the right track:

Inserts and Bonding Fasteners for Composites - Easy Composites

A range of high quality 'bigHead' bonding fasteners specially developed to provide secure, reliable fixing to composite laminates. Many sizes and types, in stock, buy online.

www.easycomposites.co.uk

I guess that settles it, then.

 

[bananu7]

Okay, did some more measurements. Gosh, is it cold out there...

I have no idea how people get the QS138 with the left-hand mounting plate mounted on the outside, and within the frame perimeter, to the correct chainline. I had to move the mount to the inside, push it as far left as it went, it's touching the frame directly and it's like barely there. It lines up, don't get me wrong, but if I added 6mm of the mounting plate? no chance.

That being said, I think I'm good for making spacers for it. I'll take it out and take inside where it's warmer, and then machine everything in there. Once the engine sits rigidly in the frame, I can pretty much mount the swingarm and the rear wheel and confirm that everything lines up. I also checked the new chain guard because the new chainring is smaller than OEM. Ironically that's the opposite issue from what most conversions have. In the meantime, I found that there are companies making aluminium 60T for XR125L, so I have options, but this setup should be okay to start. When making the spacers, I also need to settle on the oem spacers for the swingarm, as I'm not exactly sure what should go where - back to the parts fiche.

At the same time, while the filler on the battery cover plug is still drying (note to self: get a faster drying filler next time), I started thinking about the airbox and the side panel situation. I think the custom side panels would really make the bike pop, and would be quite functional; the front one would cover battery edges, and the rear one could act as the "airbox" side cover. Speaking of the airbox, the stock one will go, but this area is something I'm still not sure about. I want to incorporate the stock rear fender and lower mudguard, but other than that i could make it more open, more enclosed...

It seems that making it sealed doesn't really make sense; the controller is IP67, so it's better to add a drain hole there and just protect it from the mud thrown by the rear tyre. If I leave the top open, that also gives me a very convenient access point after removing the seat, so would help maintenance. Sides could be left reasonably open if I got the side covers to dunno, rest on them? Maybe with the addition of some foam or rubber so they don't rattle against each other. So the only problematic part is the front wall where there's really not much material in the first place as the controller needs a big hole for cooling anyway. Soooo maybe I'll just make a roughly V-shaped plug, wider than necessary, make the bottom part follow the OEM shape, make the front part be flat and with a hole for the controller, and once the side panels are done I can just trim it to meet them.

 

[halg]

I have no idea how people get the QS138 with the left-hand mounting plate mounted on the outside, and within the frame perimeter, to the correct chainline. I had to move the mount to the inside, push it as far left as it went, it's touching the frame directly and it's like barely there. It lines up, don't get me wrong, but if I added 6mm of the mounting plate? no chance.

This is what I am working out as well. I'm debating whether I should get lithium-king mounts and use spacers to line things up or if I should draw up custom mounts and try to do my own thing. I emailed lithium king. I'm probably going to need tall heels like Don Cox has in his pics on electricdirtriders to help support the battery mount and may add risers or something in the front of the mounts in front of the motor. Gonna be some figuring.

And yes. I'm so tired of working in the cold it really gets hard to get motivated.

 

[bananu7]

This is what I am working out as well. I'm debating whether I should get lithium-king mounts and use spacers to line things up or if I should draw up custom mounts and try to do my own thing. I emailed lithium king. I'm probably going to need tall heels like Don Cox has in his pics on electricdirtriders to help support the battery mount and may add risers or something in the front of the mounts in front of the motor.

You'll need some spacers regardless of whether you make your own plates or use theirs; unless you build some sort of a 3D structure, but I don't think that's very practical. Another option for the chainline is to lift the engine up and out of the frame; if you can get away with this and your mount clears the frame, you can push it as far to the left as you need. Otherwise you might need to move the mount to the inside just like I did.

And yes. I'm so tired of working in the cold it really gets hard to get motivated.

It will be worth it in the spring!

 

[bananu7]

As for the battery mounts, my battery fits in the frame pretty snuggly already. I'm thinking about two aluminium strips to secure the bottom part from moving around, (clamping it in place) but other than that I don't think I'll need much more.

 

[bananu7]

I've made the first out of 6 spacers necessary to mount the engine in the frame. The recent practice with my lathe paid off, it was a fairly straightforward if a bit tedious job. I got 56mm of spacing between the plates if I remember correctly. This is more narrow than they would normally be - as I had to move the left mount inwards, which is clearly seen in the pic. This gives the motor some more leverage when trying to twist itself out of the frame, but hopefully it will stay in place. I actually figured that I migth add a third plate later, if I decide it's still not stiff enough/I get some chainline space. Something like a 3mm steel one would be thin but add a ton of stability.

In the meantime, I've been working on the battery box cover. I regret not adding a mounting flange to the main box, because i kinda don't have a way to mount the lid now. I decided to make a small lip around the perimeter, and make the box a bit wider, so that it slides over the main box by about 20-30mm, and then rests on the lip (and not on the battery inside). The cover will also feature extra space for the large 500A connectors and hopefully a fuse.

I also got my reed switch and was happily able to confirm that a) it will work with ANT BMS, and b) it works just fine with the magnet from my handlebar safety switch. That's great because I can then just glue it inside the battery and turn the battery off via bluetooth from my phone. Then, to turn it on, i can use the safety switch magnet which will double as a key. You won't be able to start the bike without knowing where to put the magnet, which is a neat security/safety feature; and of course, it saves me from drilling an extra hole.

The plans for now are to get the rest of the spacers done, in between applying filler to the cover and waiting for it to dry. Unfortunately there are no signs of the weather getting any warmer soon, so I'll have to repeat the heater+cardboard box GF curing procedure. Thankfully this time the part is much smaller, so building a box around it shouldn't be much of an issue. Slowly but surely I'm getting closer to finally turning the engine over for the first time!

 

[bananu7]

Made the second spacer:


And did a test fit:




With the left plate on the inside, everything fits comfortably. I did some chainline measurements and arrived at the other 4 spacer dimensions - I've started making them already, but was too tired and careless today, so decided to postpone to tomorrow.

The box cover is progressing too. I did what I regretted the most not doing the last time, mounted it on a proper base. Now I can easily sand, apply filler, and later gelcoat and resin easily.


Still not sure if I'll fit a fuse inside. I did some tests with the cabling and i think it might get tight. On the negative side, I have 3xAWG 6 from the BMS to the connector - that all fits great. On the positive side, I have 8 copper braids linking into three M6-holed flat terminals. I initially wanted to connect them to a fuse on one end, and then use 20cm of AWG1 M6-M10 cable to connect to the terminal, but a) that would take a lot of space, b) megaval fuses are actually M8... So I'm thinking about maybe using the fuse itself as a link to the connector, not sure yet. I'll make final decisions once I have the cover in fiberglass and can check fitment.

The bike will also have a 500A fuse on the controller and 50A on the charging port.

 

[bananu7]

Today I made two more spacers. Measured everything 5 times, still came up 1mm short. I'll just add a washer as that will give me an extra 1mm for correction of the motor angle when the rear spacers are in place. Just two more and the motor will be mounted.