The LiFePO4 Headway cell 38120P TEST REPORT inside

[Tiberius]

Well, I have just taken the plunge and ordered some Headway cells.

So far it has been easy and pleasant to deal with them directly. Victoria always answered my emails promptly and dealt with any technical questions.

BTW, I have ordered 38120L cells (10 Ah) rather than the 38120P (8 Ah but higher discharge rate). At 5C continuous, 10C peak, the L version looks as if it has enough current capacity.

Headway are also going to add tabs and weld them up into packs to my specification. Interestingly, this only increases the cost per cell by a small amount, but it has made a significant difference to the shipping cost.

Like Jeremy, I had to wire money to a Chinese bank, which adds to the cost and requires a bit of trust.

Nick

 

[Ben]

So does anyone know what the deal is with the cycle life?

Is it 70% of its original charge after 1000 cycles?
Or is it 1000 cycles at 70% depth of discharge?

 

[flip_normal]

It says: "Cycle life: more than 1000cycles, and 70% capacity left after 1000cycles"

 

[magudaman]

Doc we gotta all chip in and get you a Robbe RB8121 aka ROBBE POWER PEAK MAXAMP LI . It has a programmable lithium CC/CV point and will do 12 amp charge and up to 22 amp discharge but best of all will do PC connected and up to

99 CYCLES!!!

A guy was using one to do the 1000 cycle test of the a123 on the rc group forum. They are hard to get in the usa.

 

[Doctorbass]

Doc we gotta all chip in and get you a Robbe RB8121 aka ROBBE POWER PEAK MAXAMP LI . It has a programmable lithium CC/CV point and will do 12 amp charge and up to 22 amp discharge but best of all will do PC connected and up to

99 CYCLES!!!

A guy was using one to do the 1000 cycle test of the a123 on the rc group forum. They are hard to get in the usa.

it seems great!

I already have a copy of the RB8429 : Robbe Power Peak Infinity 3 BID that is the Megapower infinity 960-RC but it can only do 10 cycle and 5A discharge.. but for discharge i have also the CBA-II that can discharge to 150W and max 40A.

Both are connected to my PC with graphical data software.

I spent 470$+ for both including the 12s balancer and both LBA-10 6s balancer

I'll search on the one you suggested!

 

[Tiberius]

My Headway cells arrived yesterday.

Unfortunately, they have welded them up into the wrong configuration. I asked for 4S and got 4P. I could make a low voltage 40 Ah pack but that's not quite what I want. Headway have apologised for the mistake and offered to send some 4S, but it may be easier to re-weld them here.

Doctorbass, can you tell me more about your battery test setup, please? I wonder if its worth setting up something similar myself. PM me if you like, thanks.

Nick

 

[Tiberius]

Oh yes, especially for Ypedal, here's a photograph.

 

[Ypedal]

lmao.. what's up with the tube of KY ? lol......

edit : YEah.. that is one sexy lookin box tho ! 8)

 

[Ben]

lmao.. what's up with the tube of KY ? lol......

He wasn't expecting them to come in 4P

What are the tabs like? They look rather roughly done.

 

[Tiberius]

lmao.. what's up with the tube of KY ? lol......

He wasn't expecting them to come in 4P

What are the tabs like? They look rather roughly done.

Yeah, I had to remove that before the cleaner came in.

The tabs aren't wonderful and the cells aren't perfectly arranged in a square either.

They are going to have to be re-built anyway. Rather than have some more sent over and ship these back and make the customs and revenue rich, I'm getting Headway to send me some nickel sheet and I'm going to talk very nicely to Jeremy Harris on here about his tab welder.

Nick

 

[RLT]

With the judicious use of some scissors/snips you could just cut the existing nickel squares into tabs and (probably) safely solder them in the correct configuration.
I agree though, those existing tab welds don't look much more professional than what I do with my homebuilt welder.

 

[Doctorbass]

My Headway cells arrived yesterday.

Unfortunately, they have welded them up into the wrong configuration. I asked for 4S and got 4P. I could make a low voltage 40 Ah pack but that's not quite what I want. Headway have apologised for the mistake and offered to send some 4S, but it may be easier to re-weld them here.

Doctorbass, can you tell me more about your battery test setup, please? I wonder if its worth setting up something similar myself. PM me if you like, thanks.

Nick

My test setup consist on:

-1x 12s RC lithium charger/discharger/cycler/tester from Megapower (the SR-960) model with PC interface for graph
-1x LBA 10 Balancer that can monitor 6 cells individual voltage and cut them at a preseted value.
-1x LCB-12s Balancer similar to the LBA 10 but can monitor individual 12 cells
-1x CBA-II Battery tester/disharger capable to discharge to 40A and 150W with PC USB interface for graph
-A couples of BIG load resistor from 100W to 3kW and 0 to 40ohms
-1x Wattmeter from Astroflight capable up to 60V 70A
-1x Whats-up meter watmeter capable up to 60V 50Acontinuous 100A peak
-a old dinozaure ATHLON 1800XP with NI A/D interface card up to 8 analog input and Labview


That's my playground!!.. no need KY 8)

Doc

 

[Tiberius]

My test setup consist on:

-1x 12s RC lithium charger/discharger/cycler/tester from Megapower (the SR-960) model with PC interface for graph
-1x LBA 10 Balancer that can monitor 6 cells individual voltage and cut them at a preseted value.
-1x LCB-12s Balancer similar to the LBA 10 but can monitor individual 12 cells
-1x CBA-II Battery tester/disharger capable to discharge to 40A and 150W with PC USB interface for graph
-A couples of BIG load resistor from 100W to 3kW and 0 to 40ohms
-1x Wattmeter from Astroflight capable up to 60V 70A
-1x Whats-up meter watmeter capable up to 60V 50Acontinuous 100A peak
-a old dinozaure ATHLON 1800XP with NI A/D interface card up to 8 analog input and Labview


Doc

Thanks Doc,

I wasn't sure whether you had an off the shelf battery tester or you had programmed the computer interface to do it.

How do you like Labview? It looks like a big learning curve to get up.

Nick

 

[Jozzer]

I understand Headway have just set up the spot welder, and are getting ready for proper tabbed production next month...they are probably "practicing" for the moment

 

[RLT]

Anyone done any testing of the 10AH Headway cells yet?

Been considering ordering some for a month or two, then the yahoo LiFeBatt buy came along, and got me kind of excited for a while, but the way it is being run so far isn't building my confidence in it being a real smooth deal.... So, I'm back to thinking I'd be better off with Headways, if the 10AH look to be as good a quality as the 8AH seem to be. (Not to mention being able to buy 100 of them for about the same price as 60LiFeBatts).

 

[Battboy]

Anyone done any testing of the 10AH Headway cells yet?

Been considering ordering some for a month or two, then the yahoo LiFeBatt buy came along, and got me kind of excited for a while, but the way it is being run so far isn't building my confidence in it being a real smooth deal.... So, I'm back to thinking I'd be better off with Headways, if the 10AH look to be as good a quality as the 8AH seem to be. (Not to mention being able to buy 100 of them for about the same price as 60LiFeBatts).

____________________________________________________________________________________

Headway:

Max current (claimed) 50A continuous,
100A peak 80A continuous
160A peak

LiFeBATT:

Maximum Discharge Current (continuous) 120A
Maximum Discharge Current (18s pulse) 140 A
Maximum Charge Current 30A
Cycle Life (minimum) 3,000 cycles, Capacity 7200 mAh

Cheers!

Don Harmon

 

[Iron Yeti]

Is there even a place you can buy Headway cells without buying, what was it on their website, 1,000+?

 

[RLT]

Don: If i needed 120A per cell, indeed, your batteries would be the choice. I have no doubts that LiFeBatts are about the best available. However, since any of the projects that I'm working on/considering would require no more than 30A peak per cell, that extra hundred amps is pretty much a waste. I'd just as soon have medium quality and 60% greater quantity for the same price for higher quality and lower quantity at this point in time.

All due respect, and no aspersions on anyone's character, but so far I'm just not comfortable with the yahoo deal. I won't say I'm out; I realize that it is early and that this thing happened unexpectedly, but you guys gotta get your stuff together a little better before I'm willing to toss $1500-$2000 your way.
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Yeti: Read up thread: One person has purchased 64 cells direct, another has a quote for 100 cells direct.

 

[Iron Yeti]

Yeti: Read up thread: One person has purchased 64 cells direct, another has a quote for 100 cells direct.

Sorry, crummy attention span.

 

[RLT]

I know the feelin'.

 

[Battboy]

Don: If i needed 120A per cell, indeed, your batteries would be the choice. I have no doubts that LiFeBatts are about the best available. However, since any of the projects that I'm working on/considering would require no more than 30A peak per cell, that extra hundred amps is pretty much a waste. I'd just as soon have medium quality and 60% greater quantity for the same price for higher quality and lower quantity at this point in time.

All due respect, and no aspersions on anyone's character, but so far I'm just not comfortable with the yahoo deal. I won't say I'm out; I realize that it is early and that this thing happened unexpectedly, but you guys gotta get your stuff together a little better before I'm willing to toss $1500-$2000 your way.
------------------------------------------------------

Yeti: Read up thread: One person has purchased 64 cells direct, another has a quote for 100 cells direct.

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All due respect to you as well - if our cells do not meet your needs then by all means don't buy them! We are not twisting anybody's arms here. We offer a good deal on a quality large format LiFeP04 Cell. It doesn't meet everyone's needs and that is fine. In what way do you think we need to "get our stuff together" ? Just curious and we would like to know where we are not "together" :?

Best,

Don Harmon

 

[Iron Yeti]

Ok, so these cells run at a continuous 50A, and the LifeBatt cells run at a continuous 120A. That means that if my controller allows only 20A to be drawn by the motor at any given time then I might be better off with a lower A cell? Amiright?

 

[Battboy]

Ok, so these cells run at a continuous 50A, and the LifeBatt cells run at a continuous 120A. That means that if my controller allows only 20A to be drawn by the motor at any given time then I might be better off with a lower A cell? Amiright?

____________________________________________________________________________

No, your controller must match the Voltage & Amp Hour of your pack. Just because LiFeBATT cells can take a 120 Ah continuous draw doesn't mean they want that. In fact they will last longer because they can exceed what your maximum draw is.

So, NO you are never better off with a lower Ah cell. In fact you should always figure your pack @ 25% higher Ah draw to be on the safe side and to insure the maximum life cycles that can be expected from your pack.

Best,

Don Harmon

 

[RLT]

In what way do you think we need to "get our stuff together" ? Just curious and we would like to know where we are not "together" :?

I'm not sure I can explain it in a way that makes sense, or keeps me from looking like a complete nut.
However-I don't want to take this thread off topic... If you want to ask the same question over at yahoo or the E-S thread about your group purchase, I'll TRY to give you some useful info.

 

[Battboy]

In what way do you think we need to "get our stuff together" ? Just curious and we would like to know where we are not "together" :?

I'm not sure I can explain it in a way that makes sense, or keeps me from looking like a complete nut.
However-I don't want to take this thread off topic... If you want to ask the same question over at yahoo or the E-S thread about your group purchase, I'll TRY to give you some useful info.

Just try to answer here please because if I were to ask on the Yahoo thread for the Group Purchase I think it may confuse folks.

Best,

Don Harmon