Alan B
100 GW
Use www.Greyb.org to see the website. Last time I checked they don't sell the motor on the site.
PM to Accountant here on ES for availability outside US.
PM to Accountant here on ES for availability outside US.
The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread
- Thread starter oatnet
- Start date
Jozzer
100 kW
http://www.jozztek.com/shop/ebike-boat-kit/158-greyborg-cromotor-hubzilla.html
methods
1 GW
I have not followed this thread but I know I have seen chatter about throttle control issues. Steve and I (see above) have come up with a solution for this and I think it will be ready soon.
Basically we have a module that converts your speed throttle to thrust throttle by reading the phase current and converting it from AC RMS to a DC signal that can be interpreted by a uController
Those of you running a CA-V3 with quasi thrust control (i.e. throttle controls battery current) should be all set. We have talked with Justin about bringing our signal into the AUX port of the CA to give the user the option to do thrust control on either the battery current or motor current. The phase current will also show up in the data stream for those logging. This means you can graph your DC current vs your phase current (bulge in pants) - we can put a lot of speculation to rest about the current limit ratios.
Steve and I also have a product that does a lot of the same things the CA does, but targeted at higher power motorcycles... so if you are interested in something that can time-stamp datalog, throttle limit, spray coolant, monitor multiple temperature probes, monitor AC phase current, etc... get a hold of steve (again, the post above mine) and just give him the routing number to your checking account so that we can drain it
I already have too many "build threads" going so I am not going to start one on this module. That said - the design is done and the parts are ordered. When I get back to the shop in a week I am going to knock together a prototype good for +/-400A (non-contact hall effect sensor) and if the fist cut works as well as planned we will try to make 5 or 10 of them available to beta testers.
High power CroMotor guys with a reasonable budget need apply - it wont be super cheap since the sensor alone is expensive. DIY skills necessary - otherwise if you buy a CA-V3 from us we can make it plug and play.
Timeline - 1 week to 1 year :wink:
-methods
Basically we have a module that converts your speed throttle to thrust throttle by reading the phase current and converting it from AC RMS to a DC signal that can be interpreted by a uController
Those of you running a CA-V3 with quasi thrust control (i.e. throttle controls battery current) should be all set. We have talked with Justin about bringing our signal into the AUX port of the CA to give the user the option to do thrust control on either the battery current or motor current. The phase current will also show up in the data stream for those logging. This means you can graph your DC current vs your phase current (bulge in pants) - we can put a lot of speculation to rest about the current limit ratios.
Steve and I also have a product that does a lot of the same things the CA does, but targeted at higher power motorcycles... so if you are interested in something that can time-stamp datalog, throttle limit, spray coolant, monitor multiple temperature probes, monitor AC phase current, etc... get a hold of steve (again, the post above mine) and just give him the routing number to your checking account so that we can drain it
I already have too many "build threads" going so I am not going to start one on this module. That said - the design is done and the parts are ordered. When I get back to the shop in a week I am going to knock together a prototype good for +/-400A (non-contact hall effect sensor) and if the fist cut works as well as planned we will try to make 5 or 10 of them available to beta testers.
High power CroMotor guys with a reasonable budget need apply - it wont be super cheap since the sensor alone is expensive. DIY skills necessary - otherwise if you buy a CA-V3 from us we can make it plug and play.
Timeline - 1 week to 1 year :wink:
-methods
methods
1 GW
I sell them outside the US - website in sig of my post.
If someone wants one without the temp probe we may be able to accommodate that request. I suppose that would be $595 or whatever the going rate is.
-methods
If someone wants one without the temp probe we may be able to accommodate that request. I suppose that would be $595 or whatever the going rate is.
-methods
Alan B said:
Alan B
100 GW
Excellent Vendor here!
I've been enjoying my Cromotor immensely. At a moderate power level it accelerates briskly, and gets only slightly warm cruising up steep hills at 25+. I've put 2500 miles on mine and the tread on my rear moped tire is just about gone. With about 6kw peak it almost lifts the front wheel off the ground, when I pedal hard (adding about 500W) the front wheel bounces. Just about right for a quick no surprises commuter.
I've been enjoying my Cromotor immensely. At a moderate power level it accelerates briskly, and gets only slightly warm cruising up steep hills at 25+. I've put 2500 miles on mine and the tread on my rear moped tire is just about gone. With about 6kw peak it almost lifts the front wheel off the ground, when I pedal hard (adding about 500W) the front wheel bounces. Just about right for a quick no surprises commuter.
methods said:
I pmed the reputable forum member I bought my motor/KMX frame from, but would appreciate public opinion...
Recently got a used cromotor, vented, 20" alex rim, and rust-proofed-all-over stator. Finally got my adaptto max-e hooked up, most things mounted on the trike, so I went through autodetect.
Worked PERFECTLY fine until it spun up into 75% PWM, at which point there were three loud THUDS in succession, like a hammer hitting a thick steel plate. I immediately let the throttle off after the first one but it did it a couple more times winding down. Broke off one of the DP-420'ed Doctorbass torque arms that was on there-- and I have no dp-420 myself for repairs.
It's not touching the frame, at all. It's either internal, or controller related...
I can't see ANY debris inside through the vent holes, and I can't figure out what's causing this. I slowly spun it up to 25mph and it made a couple of "taps", but it will not happen below that speed, period. Which makes me think it's controller related... but the sound and immediacy of it makes me think it's mechanical.
Anyone have any idea what could be going on?
Recently got a used cromotor, vented, 20" alex rim, and rust-proofed-all-over stator. Finally got my adaptto max-e hooked up, most things mounted on the trike, so I went through autodetect.
Worked PERFECTLY fine until it spun up into 75% PWM, at which point there were three loud THUDS in succession, like a hammer hitting a thick steel plate. I immediately let the throttle off after the first one but it did it a couple more times winding down. Broke off one of the DP-420'ed Doctorbass torque arms that was on there-- and I have no dp-420 myself for repairs.
It's not touching the frame, at all. It's either internal, or controller related...
I can't see ANY debris inside through the vent holes, and I can't figure out what's causing this. I slowly spun it up to 25mph and it made a couple of "taps", but it will not happen below that speed, period. Which makes me think it's controller related... but the sound and immediacy of it makes me think it's mechanical.
Anyone have any idea what could be going on?
@ xenodius
If there are no mechanical issues inside your motor, the controller will have caused it. You know i also have max-e controller.
I also noticed this sudden thud during autodetect. To me it seemed like the controller wants to spin the motor abrupt backwards. In my case it only was ONE hard short thud. After this the motor spun normaly on.
Later during riding i noticed this thud again, but it only happened if i was riding downhill past 70kmh with released throttle and than push throttle to full.
At the same day andreym sent me the special settings for Cromotor (i think i have posted it in my thread) and after set controller up correct to this it never happened again.
Also very very important: if you set OVS to more than 2 or 3, ALWAYS set a speed limit in power mode profile. Otherwise it will spin your motor to more than twice or triple the normal kV and this will also cause this thud (and it can kill your controllers power stage).
I had no damage due to this tuds, but i have very strong torque arms. If someting brakes due to to much torque, it will be hopefully a twist off motor axle (this i have mechanical calculated).
If there are no mechanical issues inside your motor, the controller will have caused it. You know i also have max-e controller.
I also noticed this sudden thud during autodetect. To me it seemed like the controller wants to spin the motor abrupt backwards. In my case it only was ONE hard short thud. After this the motor spun normaly on.
Later during riding i noticed this thud again, but it only happened if i was riding downhill past 70kmh with released throttle and than push throttle to full.
At the same day andreym sent me the special settings for Cromotor (i think i have posted it in my thread) and after set controller up correct to this it never happened again.
Also very very important: if you set OVS to more than 2 or 3, ALWAYS set a speed limit in power mode profile. Otherwise it will spin your motor to more than twice or triple the normal kV and this will also cause this thud (and it can kill your controllers power stage).
I had no damage due to this tuds, but i have very strong torque arms. If someting brakes due to to much torque, it will be hopefully a twist off motor axle (this i have mechanical calculated).
Thankyou Madin! I adjusted PWR timing #1/2 from .5 to 1.40 and from 0 to 1.40, and it seems to have completely fixed the issue. I also adjusted Wire R PHC from NO to YES, per andreyms suggestion, and that made it a little better but after changing the PWR timing it work perfectly. Motor now spins up to full speed on 80v in less than 1/4 second.
Ultimately it's good that the torque arm broke off, at least that's what I'm telling myself. Better for it to fail in a test environment. The bike shop has a welder, since I'm good friends with them I might trade a quick weld for a test-drive =)
Sorry if I alarmed you Steve, I was quite concerned myself =)
Ultimately it's good that the torque arm broke off, at least that's what I'm telling myself. Better for it to fail in a test environment. The bike shop has a welder, since I'm good friends with them I might trade a quick weld for a test-drive =)
Sorry if I alarmed you Steve, I was quite concerned myself =)
So I developed a squeak from my motor only present at 5-18 mph while a load is on the axle, e.g. while I'm sitting on my bike. Swapped out the bearings (thanks Brake for the puller and assistance!) And it's still squeaking! Inside appears to be clean, rides great up to 55mph but it squeaks and it's driving me nuts! Any thoughts? With the wheel suspended, it's dead silent... and it's not my freewheel either.
And yes, one bearing was suspect by feel when removed. And it sounds exactly like it did before. Once per revolution.
but it squeaks and it's driving me nuts! Any thoughts? With the wheel suspended, it's dead silent... and it's not my freewheel either. And yes, one bearing was suspect by feel when removed. And it sounds exactly like it did before. Once per revolution.
Has anyone oil bath cooled a cromotor?
I have seen a few water cooling ideas but it looks like they have been abandoned.
At 16kw and at some point 20kw I would prefer to not vent/ drill holes in my covers. I don’t want to risk weakening them at all.
Thanks,
Scott
I have seen a few water cooling ideas but it looks like they have been abandoned.
At 16kw and at some point 20kw I would prefer to not vent/ drill holes in my covers. I don’t want to risk weakening them at all.
Thanks,
Scott
Dark Knight
100 W
Scott said:
I'd be curious on this as well...anyone stuck some HFT in one?
Alan B
100 GW
xenodius said:So I developed a squeak from my motor only present at 5-18 mph while a load is on the axle, e.g. while I'm sitting on my bike. Swapped out the bearings (thanks Brake for the puller and assistance!) And it's still squeaking! Inside appears to be clean, rides great up to 55mph
And yes, one bearing was suspect by feel when removed. And it sounds exactly like it did before. Once per revolution.
I recently developed a similar squeak, I think it is from the tie wrap I have holding the motor cable away from the rotating parts, right around the axle spacer. I didn't have the squeak before, but it appeared after some maintenance when I replaced the freewheel and the tie wrap. It could be something else, I haven't bothered to investigate in detail.
Currently trying to manhandle a cromotor into a Kona Caldera frame. It's tight and I regret some of my mods.
Alas, the rest of the bike is mostly done, swapping frame is really last resort. I added about 12-13 mm of spacer on the brake side, this was so that the brake-disc would clear the frame. As the freewheel side has no spacer, this introduces about the same tire/wheel offset.
The motor is laced in a 26" rim from Zelena. Is it possible to dish the rim back to true center? (I measure the offset to be ~10mm)
And, how bad does a bicycle with offset-rear wheel handle?
Edit - Update: I managed to dish the rim to the correct spec, about 1cm shift with ~4turns change. (If you have straigthened a wheel before this will be "piece of cake")
Alas, the rest of the bike is mostly done, swapping frame is really last resort. I added about 12-13 mm of spacer on the brake side, this was so that the brake-disc would clear the frame. As the freewheel side has no spacer, this introduces about the same tire/wheel offset.
The motor is laced in a 26" rim from Zelena. Is it possible to dish the rim back to true center? (I measure the offset to be ~10mm)
And, how bad does a bicycle with offset-rear wheel handle?
Edit - Update: I managed to dish the rim to the correct spec, about 1cm shift with ~4turns change. (If you have straigthened a wheel before this will be "piece of cake")
another fitment question, I think I have a skinny cromotor or something. I am going to run regen so no brake adapter..
it fits my 135mm frame with just a slight tug on one side. even with alumn I'm not worried, it's not like I had to get out the car jack.
so why does 5mm pull on one side fit?
laced in 17" moto wheel, freakin heavy
it fits my 135mm frame with just a slight tug on one side. even with alumn I'm not worried, it's not like I had to get out the car jack.
so why does 5mm pull on one side fit?
laced in 17" moto wheel, freakin heavy
lyen edition 18 fet low rds overclocker ready / Cromotor V3
HI Guys, I need help programming my Lyen controller for my cromotor!
My Raptors spec is:
24s 3p lipo (nominal 88.8v, off the charge 100v)
Cromotor V3
Controller- 184110 - lyen edition 18 fet low rds overclocker ready.
What I need to know are the basic parameters that will work GOOD & not pop the motor or controller!!!
Sensor Degree : ?
Phase Current : ?
Rated Current : ?
And anything else worth considering? It's currently hooked up to my HT3525 and Lyen programmed it for that motor before I recieved it a year ago, I've asked him a while back if this unit is ok with the Cro and he said yes. I contacted him again just recently about programming advice, but no answer yet.. But I know he gets busy so I'm not going to pester him again yet!!
Big thanks for any advice...
Cheers
Jon
HI Guys, I need help programming my Lyen controller for my cromotor!
My Raptors spec is:
24s 3p lipo (nominal 88.8v, off the charge 100v)
Cromotor V3
Controller- 184110 - lyen edition 18 fet low rds overclocker ready.
What I need to know are the basic parameters that will work GOOD & not pop the motor or controller!!!
Sensor Degree : ?
Phase Current : ?
Rated Current : ?
And anything else worth considering? It's currently hooked up to my HT3525 and Lyen programmed it for that motor before I recieved it a year ago, I've asked him a while back if this unit is ok with the Cro and he said yes. I contacted him again just recently about programming advice, but no answer yet.. But I know he gets busy so I'm not going to pester him again yet!!
Big thanks for any advice...
Cheers
Jon
parabellum
1 MW
No cromotor here but Xiechang has automatic hall detection. It is simple for the controller since 60 degree will have a point where all 3 halls are on. For current use following.Jonboy said:
I limit current 100A battery and 180A phase on Lyens 18 Fet at 24s, continuous is under 2.4 kW. Always monitor the temperature to see limitations. :wink:
Dougt
100 mW
Hi Cromotor guys,
In the "for sale section" there is a guy selling QS motors that he says are identical to the cromotor, in both form and performance.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65929
Is this true? He posts two performance curves, on for V2 and one for V3.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=155668
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=156005
I can't find a cromotor test report to compare, except for the 48V one in the beginning of this thread.
I know the QS makes parts (all?) of the Cromotor, but have read that the cromotor may use a higher grade steel or custom windings. What is the deal? Are they exactly identical? If not, what are the main differences?
Thanks!
In the "for sale section" there is a guy selling QS motors that he says are identical to the cromotor, in both form and performance.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65929
Is this true? He posts two performance curves, on for V2 and one for V3.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=155668
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=156005
I can't find a cromotor test report to compare, except for the 48V one in the beginning of this thread.
I know the QS makes parts (all?) of the Cromotor, but have read that the cromotor may use a higher grade steel or custom windings. What is the deal? Are they exactly identical? If not, what are the main differences?
Thanks!
Allex
100 MW
For what I know, Many people uses this Quanshun motor. What Cromotor team did is take quanshun motor and modify it for ebike. Also maked sure that the factory uses good quality parts.
You can actually buy a quanshun that is better than Cro. Factory do mods like better copper fill on stator and better axle. Cost a bit more than original Cro though!
You can actually buy a quanshun that is better than Cro. Factory do mods like better copper fill on stator and better axle. Cost a bit more than original Cro though!
Dougt
100 mW
Allex said:
I'm really getting confused now. Does anybody have a graph of the performance test curves of a cromotor?
Looking at the the two QS motors I linked to in my post above, the v3 is only 5% better than the v2. But then I compared to another cromotor looking clone, the evel gt4000 (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64775&p=971843&hilit=gt4000#p971843) looks better than both these. For the same power input and rpm (speed) the gt4000 has almost identical torque (power out) at the low end, but is far superior at high rpm. The two QS motors can't even spin unloaded past 650 rpm, while the gt4000 is putting out 70 n-m at that speed and spins all the way up to 780 rpm unloaded.
So here is my confusion: if the two QS motors are the same as a cromotor, then the GT4000 is superior to a cromotor, BUT the guy selling the GT4000 says it's not as powerful as a cromotor. HELP ME! I'm confused.
Allex
100 MW
Ask Accountant at cromotor, maybe he can provide us with charts.
madin88 said:I have asked him in another thread about what modifications they do with this motor, but yet no answer. They also do not answer emails etc. Not very good support.
What's the address you are sending the emails?
They have replied to all my emails.
i sent the emails to zelena vozila and fb pm the past year (regarding Cromotor V4 / Vortex) -> no answers
they also did not help me when i asked them for some informations regarding rewinding a Cromotor by hand for more copper fill.
now, if they do no modifiactions at the motors, why spend more money and purchase from them? further theire Greyborg frame and its quality is a joke (had one in hand).
they also did not help me when i asked them for some informations regarding rewinding a Cromotor by hand for more copper fill.
now, if they do no modifiactions at the motors, why spend more money and purchase from them? further theire Greyborg frame and its quality is a joke (had one in hand).
Dougt
100 mW
Does anybody have a performance test report for the cromotor at 72V (or so) they could post here?
I see there is one for 48V posted early in this thread, but not sure how well that scales...current should scale linearly, and input power as V^2, but that isn't exactly true, since the magnetic steel doesn't have linear responses.
I am wanting a cromotor based on reputation, but I would really like to be able to compare it to other motors before paying the premium for it. The fact that test reports are easily found for most all competing motors, but not the cromotor seems a bit odd.
I see there is one for 48V posted early in this thread, but not sure how well that scales...current should scale linearly, and input power as V^2, but that isn't exactly true, since the magnetic steel doesn't have linear responses.
I am wanting a cromotor based on reputation, but I would really like to be able to compare it to other motors before paying the premium for it. The fact that test reports are easily found for most all competing motors, but not the cromotor seems a bit odd.
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