Thoughts regarding on-board notebook computer for E-bike use

[mwkeefer]

nutz,

This would work... I have succeeded in running a 9c hub without sensors using an HV110 with huge caps and a 4" power cable run... startup was a bit odd at first but it turned out to be an issue with my PWM throttle interface... I wasn't doing enough range for it so I opened it from .5ms to 2ms as the standard says it should be and whalla.... SLAMMING STARTS no sensors.

On the contrary I have used sensor based infineons with BLDC Outrunners modified with halls.

The halls are only needed in massive power applications where 1/10th seconds (maybe 1 second) matters... for most it just doesn't.

The back EMF zero cross algorythim isn't too difficult to implement, I have a little Atmega 1280 here running a very low power BLDC controller... currently sensorless only but I will be integrating sensor management then I will scale the FET board (seperate from the logic board)... I have to make a design change in my existing FET drivers since to acheive 160v I will need to use FETs with nearly 2x the turn on resistance as the IRF4110 FETs everyone is using for 110v... I want to eventually offer a very modular design as robust as the Kelly but small like the HV110, not an easy TASK but.... if you reverse engineer infineon controllers you can see that they would adapt reasonable well to a multi layered double thick PCB using smt components. We could cut the size of a 9fet regen unit by 50-60% and at the same time solve the issues of tracebeefing and such by designing the PCBs to support the higher amperages.

Okay... way off topic. sorry.

-Mike

 

[Anonymous]

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[johnrobholmes]

On the note of Castle link- Castle is working on an Iphone app, and also a hand programmer. These products will probably take a while. Know Castle's load I would guess a year or so in development still.

 

[mwkeefer]

nutz,

You got me... yes the full source is available, actually there are many open source examples of using an AVR to control brushed and brushless motors... including the sensor algorythims.

My "working" little controller is just a hand rolled implementation of the source you found (plus parts of a dozen other sources before I got it working as I wanted).

John,

I have already begun building a simple stand-alone programmer for the Infineon... just as a side project. It will store multiple profiles and allow the user to select the proper one without needing to break out the PC... this is perfect for those of us who swap multiple power sources of variable HV and LVC points. It also allows for quick performance adjustments. This basically is nothing more than an atmel with a USB interface which I load the ASC files from the PC (Parameter Designer) and then a TTL level interface to connect to the ISP pads which implements the same programming protocol as the Parameter Designer software.

Doing this with an iPhone would still require the TTL level adapters but since we can get to the serial port on the iPhone now (via the multi connector on the bottom) this is possible and if you ask me inevitable.

The only issue I have with Castle is their lack of response to any of my support emails... I have sent 8 emails over 3 months and have not had but 1 initial response. I realize these aren't designed for eBikes or EV use but my questions weren't uber technical... so when it comes to Castle, I let you and people like Matt take care of interfacing with them... I just gave up trying to contact them all together. That said my HV 110 rocks!
-Mike

 

[Anonymous]

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[AussieJester]

ooookay...well just caught up with a few pages...all gone above my head long ago, my offer
still stands though Matt, if you would like a small pc in custom case ~size of DVD enclosure
with a 7in touch screen happy to build it for you, i assume though these fellas with their
custom setups will be more favourable (well done to fellas impressive stuff BTW..the bits i did understand LoL)

Let me know anywayz mate can have one together in a
few hours and in the post (soon as parts are here that is)

KiM

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[AussieJester]

What I don't like about boards like this are the expansion bus. It has a regular PCI slot. If a PCI card is inserted then it sticks out at 90 degree angle to the main board. .

You can use 90 degree pci riser board (if need be) can be used to keep the hight down :: wink ::


KiM

 

[Anonymous]

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[AussieJester]

I would go with the Gigabyte GA-GC330UD Mini-ITX Motherboard & Atom 330 CPU 1.6ghz cpu

Shall wait see what Matt wishes to go for, personally i would buy an Asus eeeee they are
awesome lil pcs tiny as, my mate has Windows 7 (full instal) running on his. There's
also a touchscreen addon if required.
Doubt I could beat the weight or size with anything else i build, the only thing it lacks in Matts request
for specs is USB ports it has 2 for memory, this obviously can be solved using usb hub
which is no biggy...Perhaps (if you havent already seen an Asus ee check on out Matt before
deciding on alternatives?...maybe even buy one try it if it doesnt work return it)

But yes, i would be more than happy to put one together for Mr R he has done nothing but good
for this forum (and others im a member of with him) hes also bending over backwards for me personally
so i can get this latest RC tech on my bike. Just want Matt to be sure this option is going to
meet his expectations (i would hate him to get it and it not be of use to him)...or if he would prefer to
wait for the ideas you fellas are working on, which ultimately would be the better way to go.

KiM

 

[Anonymous]

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[AussieJester]

Yeah fair call, the custom pc has the option to mount out of site with touch screen in view...
You all realise if i make a pc for Matt im simply going to have to make one for my own ride too LoL..

KiM

P.S same mate that has the EEE has been boasting how brilliant his new 128gb SSD is had it 2 weeks and it shat itself
i LoLed he paid near 400 bucks for it i reckon hes mad TBH...but hey, its his hobby like any hobby you want the latest and greatest im over pcs now i havent upgraded for 18 months i sued tobe upgrading every few months i simply HAD to have the latest, my Q6600 does everything i want it too do the kiddies still cant beat me in COD4 so im happy to spend my dollars on other things these days LoL...horses for courses isnt it...

KiM

EDIT: i discussed this with my buddy he did bring up a good point...waterproofing and shock from bumps, be subjected to greater knocks on a bicycle than a car im guessing?...spring mounting the mobo might be one the cards if i build one for Matt then he could hard mount it too the trike knowing it will take the knocks? HDD wont be an issue SD card or SSD HD will do the job no moving parts to trouble it...actually small SSDs are probably the better option, i have heard mumblings about sd cards failing prematurely when an OS is installed on them, thoughts on that ? could also mount that externally of the case i guess to be removed in evenings to take inside to offload data? I guess with wifi though would be no need to...

 

[Anonymous]

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[StevenR]

Reinventing the small handheld device with a display that you could hang on the bars seems like coals to Newcastle these days. How about something like this - the Archos 5 Internet Tablet?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/15/archos-5-internet-tablet-makes-an-honest-pmp-out-of-android/
It runs Android and has built in GPS - a must have for this kind of application, IMHO. Risking perhaps well deserved ridicule, I would prefer a Windows platform because of my Design Studio experience (and the need to get back into it having been doing miserable PL/SQL for a year or more) but the point is not to do too much wheel re-invention. The PC104 looks to be the lowest cost way to get the input density required to monitor at least one set of battery cell voltages and the other analog parameters required. The PC104 I/O would probably require having an embedded PC104 system doing the datalogging talking to a bar mounted device with off the shelf PMP, internet access, GPS, phone, FM Radio, fart application, etc., etc. I am looking at the devices for all those other applications and will try to get one that at least talks to my CA via USB. If it just gets the instantaneous values of current, total aH, distance, speed, etc. from the CA every second and logs it with GPS data I would be in data pig heaven. I have a v2.11 CA on the bench awaiting modification to go to hall speed sense and was intending to bring the serial port out the hole the speed sensor used while I was at it. RS-232 to USB converter and I have that part. Even if I can't make it work with the CA, I can justify a good PMP/GPS on it's own merits, so the ebike application is an added bonus. Now that that I have justified it to myself, on with search for the perfect device. Too bad the Zune HD doesn't appear to have GPS..

 

[Anonymous]

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[StevenR]

The Archos 9 will run Win 7 when released - October 22? One issue is that it is not available in North or South America. Unless that changes, it is not a solution although it does everything if you live in Europe - even a built in TV tuner! Great for catching Packer games while out for a ride in Europe. I agree it is good but I see the high speed datalogger as a distributed processor. Because of the PNP nature of the PC104 hardware, I will look in that direction. I see a PC104 CAN bus controller that may interface with some of the BMS products out there, for example. If you are just looking for transients, some of the I/O boards appear to latch so the high speed might not really be required if the board can handle max/min stuff. If you integrate the controller, I guess some serious speed is required. Integration of the controller and battery managment system running on a system unencumbered by too much man-machine interface overhead which then talks to the MMI device that already has most of the cool features already built in just makes sense. Use the MMI to poke setpoints and limits and read max/min and current values.

I will keep looking at uber-powerfull PMP's, internet tablets, smart phones and the like. I want/need one but I am holding off until the "perfect" device comes along. If I see a good one, I'm ready to pounce. I am an FM radio (NPR) junky and the Zune HD may be the way I get into HD radio aside from the ebike application. It has a development environment but it "just" needs GPS. It was just released today so the third party devices are still a bit down the road. If an external GPS accessory comes out, it might be just the thing. Positioning the antenna remote from the display may even be a plus. I would go back to the search but it's time for bed...

 

[Anonymous]

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[mwkeefer]

Guys,

No offense... I am hoping Android will mature and be here to stay, competition is good... I would prefer to go with a platform of pure linux in a tablet style design with fold down qwerty keyboard... The Nokia (800) internet tables are a little more than the one you list (and I like this one you list) but.... with the Linux base, we can craft any GUI + have all the bells and whistles while sitting in the ride doing nothing (including full multimedia system (being conservative of watts obviously) with mp3 player, navigation, rear video PIP (for rearview instead of having to turn your head.... front view possible too), once available - battery management integration and initially EagleTree but at the prompting of everyone here... I have ordered samples to be delivered ASAP of some A2D conversion boards, one designed for Golf Carts which would be perfect (price is scary but...) since it's designed to work up to 100v and 120A already.

Android is just too full off possible holes still, most lower level linux and basic X distros have been going > 9 years now (slackware was my first @ 18). The iPhone actually scares me the same way.

Have a look at this screen: http://www.amazon.com/LILLIPUT-INCHES-TOUCH-SCREEN-MONITOR/dp/B000AYG9F6

Perfect for a reasonable HiGh RES dash.... leaving the primary laptop/netbook on the eBike or free to be used for other things.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Anonymous]

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[AussieJester]

The Liliput is what i would recommend i have bought 2 of these (non touche screen versions)
for my DIY projectors they are EXCELLENT quality, the screens are made by Hitachi for memory
they were a BIG favourite amongst the DIY LCD projector builds 3-4 years ago.

KiM

 

[StevenR]

I think I will pick one of these...
http://www.dynamism.com/#Product=viliv_s7
Windows XP now but 7 later (perhaps sooner). I am not even sure if the Viliv 7 or 70 is the one - the 70 is a 7 with no keyboard which may even per prefereable. The 5 is smaller and may also be a possibility. Even without ebike interface - USB out from the CA - it is a nice GPS/PMP - which are two required functions of the ebike MMI, IMHO.

These may not even have enough power for those functions though (although they should - it is video that may be compromised and I have another machine for that Q9650's do video just FINE). Only one way to find out. "One experiment is worth a thousand words"?...

 

[AussieJester]

Honestly you would be close to insane to pick XP of Win 7 IMHO The touch screen abilities of Windowz 7 are excellent
not too mention it is a waaaaaaaaay faster OS than XP...Give it a shot guarantee you wont regret it chalk and cheese
difference.

KiM

 

[mwkeefer]

Aussie,

You know I mean no dis-respect but I have been using Win 7 in testing environments of all sorts and while I still have issues with it on FAST hardware, it is a bit quicker overall than XP but at a HUGE cost... Just like Vista (same core kernel, very little changed really that will effect the operation or stability) it sucks up huge amounts of RAM and if you want nice graphics you are forced to use a very high end video card with proper shaders and such.

I have at the forums suggestion, broken down the Windows 7 x86 version into minimal install (and livecd) intended to test it's usefulness and versatility for this purpose and many others we will come up with... my test results: On a 1.6 GHZ processor (Intel Core 2 Duo) it sucked!... 2GB of ram was not nearly enough and the internal 945GM chipset just won't do the extreme graphics.

By comparison there is a new Win7 for Embedded Coming and I am not sure why but... I used the same drivers and built this bootable image, dropped it on a flash drive and up it came (in under 8 seconds) and man was it fast. I think the difference is the Win7 Embedded edition (not available for RTM even yet, part of Microsoft Developers Network Subscription access) was designed to run on a machine with a processor around 600-800 mhz so basically were giving it twice the power it needs to run nice. I have still some crashing issues of certain needed apps but I think I can fix that with some system files from Vista that appear more stable. So I'm working on the Embedded 7 for this application (not just dwindled down, lightweight WIn7) for the better Kernel (I checked it's 100% different).

For now I would go WinXP Pro or WinXP Embedded. Either way I would go with a custom "minimal" nLite built install, just the facts maam. I have the driver bundle to build an OEM Lenovo XP Pro SP2 or 3 + all current hotfixes.

With regards to the HDMI touchscreen, as mentioned it would be nice for a cable run but at 7-8" of display, HDMI is kinda a waste.... none of these screens can display above 480p and truly the Composite/SVideo is more than adequate for the 640x480 or 800x600 resolution of the standard LCD screen. Touch input is incorporated via a simple Mouse wedge style interface(USB) which should work with Linux, Mac and WIndows of all types (XP does have an on screen keyboard if setup in tablet mode.

For the guys looking at Smart Phones there was a project osphone or somthing that was totally an open source smart phone development platform with GPS, touch screen, full qwerty keyboard and linux.... otherwise take a look at HTC (Hi Tec Computing) and their linup of WM smartphones, quite nice units.
-Mike