Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

jumpjack said:
Any news?
Datasheets?
Vendors?
Click to expand...
Its a government project. Unless they license the tech, all it will do is consume more $.
 
Alan B said:
Research in labs is available in various forms, without it we would be lacking things you use every day. Commercial companies don't do the basic research, they start with stuff from the labs.
Click to expand...

They start with stuff from government labs because the government holds guns to our heads and takes the money that might otherwise be invested in private research. Who wants to compete with an armed gang that can have unpredictable and virtually unlimited resources that can thwart private investment?

If research was all privately funded, investors could reasonably calculate their risk. When research is funded with unaccountable money and directed by the whims of bureaucrats, its impossible to calculate investment risk. We are the beneficiaries of government research because we would go to jail if we didn't hand the money over. A pick-pocket returning some of the money he's stolen doesn't legitimize his theft.
 
Much of the research done at government labs would never be undertaken by private companies because the payoff is too unpredictable and far out - 10, 20 even 30 years. So it would not be done, and we would not have the results, or it would be done by foreign labs (also government funded) and they would own all the intellectual property and patents. Much of research is beyond the pocketbook of what companies have or are willing to invest in research. The machine I work with cost a few billion dollars to make and operate over its long lifetime, and the results that come from thousands of scientists that use it every year result in better drugs, understanding diseases, disk drives, magnets, chips & microprocessors, solar cells, batteries, pollution controls, fuels, materials, and too many other things to mention. There are many similar machines worldwide competing for this research, and if we didn't do it they would own all the rights, patents and profit streams that result. There is no way investors could ever calculate the risks and payoffs of these investments. Investors would rather invest in high profit short term investments many of which are manufactured by Wall Street from perceptions rather than reality. Not every scientific investment pays off, but some pay off big time, and the companies get most of the profit, not the Scientific institutions. The expense of these institutions is small compared with wasteful wars and government social services. They are not the drivers of the budget deficit or the tax rates.
 
Alan B said:
Much of the research done at government labs would never be undertaken by private companies because the payoff is too unpredictable and far out - 10, 20 even 30 years. So it would not be done, and we would not have the results, or it would be done by foreign labs (also government funded) and they would own all the intellectual property and patents. Much of research is beyond the pocketbook of what companies have or are willing to invest in research. The machine I work with cost a few billion dollars to make and operate over its long lifetime, and the results that come from thousands of scientists that use it every year result in better drugs, understanding diseases, disk drives, magnets, chips & microprocessors, solar cells, batteries, pollution controls, fuels, materials, and too many other things to mention. There are many similar machines worldwide competing for this research, and if we didn't do it they would own all the rights, patents and profit streams that result. There is no way investors could ever calculate the risks and payoffs of these investments. Investors would rather invest in high profit short term investments many of which are manufactured by Wall Street from perceptions rather than reality. Not every scientific investment pays off, but some pay off big time, and the companies get most of the profit, not the Scientific institutions. The expense of these institutions is small compared with wasteful wars and government social services. They are not the drivers of the budget deficit or the tax rates.
Click to expand...

Hear here! Well put.
 
wb9k said:
Alan B said:
Much of the research done at government labs would never be undertaken by private companies because the payoff is too unpredictable and far out - 10, 20 even 30 years. So it would not be done, and we would not have the results, or it would be done by foreign labs (also government funded) and they would own all the intellectual property and patents. Much of research is beyond the pocketbook of what companies have or are willing to invest in research. The machine I work with cost a few billion dollars to make and operate over its long lifetime, and the results that come from thousands of scientists that use it every year result in better drugs, understanding diseases, disk drives, magnets, chips & microprocessors, solar cells, batteries, pollution controls, fuels, materials, and too many other things to mention. There are many similar machines worldwide competing for this research, and if we didn't do it they would own all the rights, patents and profit streams that result. There is no way investors could ever calculate the risks and payoffs of these investments. Investors would rather invest in high profit short term investments many of which are manufactured by Wall Street from perceptions rather than reality. Not every scientific investment pays off, but some pay off big time, and the companies get most of the profit, not the Scientific institutions. The expense of these institutions is small compared with wasteful wars and government social services. They are not the drivers of the budget deficit or the tax rates.
Click to expand...

Hear here! Well put.
Click to expand...

This is the start of a slippery slope. An example would be tax abatement by various government agencies to attract economic activity 'for the benefit of' the extorted citizens. Just because one government entity is doing it doesn't justify the wrongness. Bottom line is that everything the government does is at the point of a gun.

Instead of joining in because 'everyone else is doing it' doesn't seem like a good idea to me. The morally correct action is to attempt to educate everyone else to the folly of their submission to their extorters.

To contend that research would never be done unless at the point of a gun is ridiculous, and called 'the tail wagging the dog'.
 
Researchers have made the first battery electrode that heals itself, opening a new and potentially commercially viable path for making the next generation of lithium ion batteries for electric cars, cell phones and other devices. The secret is a stretchy polymer that coats the electrode, binds it together and spontaneously heals tiny cracks that develop during battery operation, said the team from Stanford University and the Department of Energy's (DOE) SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory.
Click to expand...

Self-healing chemistry enables the stable operation of silicon microparticle anodes for high-energy lithium-ion batteries
 
1-s2.0-S0167577X12018058-fx1.jpg


Graphene, Some cool looking stuff.
 
Wishes said:
I've been following the development of this material for a while now. It looks promising.
Click to expand...

Yah... It (graphene) has been mentioned on ES before (try a search here for the word). And yah, its "getting closer"! :D

L
 
Not only batteries but also wiring as it suppose to conduct electricity far better than copper. That would be nice, think of the cable size reduction, flat, thin cables
 
Beauty, yes. 15 minutes into the future, no.

Most practical use at present, science fiction. There'll probably be a lot of novels and/or movies using it before we do. They put this poster up just to taunt me.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20131119_154952-1.jpg
    IMG_20131119_154952-1.jpg
    22.6 KB · Views: 2,689
Science fiction? Yah, like the electric bicycle in Europe, or China... There's probably lots of things that started out life as "science fiction"... Yes?
L
 
wow: After consideration of device packaging (assuming 50% device weight), this yields ~2.5–3.5 Wh/Kg energy densities that are comparable to commercially available activated carbon-based supercapacitor devices

You missed the real deal from Korea:

83.4 Whkg-1
10,000 cycles ~ no degradation

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1311/1311.1548.pdf

Graphene is a promising material for energy storage, especially for high performance supercapacitors. For real time high power applications, it is critical to have high specific capacitance with fast charging time at high current density. Using a modified Hummer's method and tip sonication for graphene synthesis, here we show graphene-based supercapacitors with high stability and significantly-improved electrical double layer capacitance and energy density with fast charging and discharging time at a high current density, due to enhanced ionic electrolyte accessibility in deeper regions. The discharge capacitance and energy density values, 195 Fg-1 and 83.4 Whkg-1, are achieved at a current density of 2.5 Ag-1. The time required to discharge 64.18 Whkg-1 at 5 A/g is around 25 sec. At 7.5 Ag-1 current density, the cell can deliver a specific capacitance of about 137 Fg-1 and maintain 98 % of its initial value after 10,000 cycles, suggesting that the stable performance of supercapacitors at high current rates is suitable for fast charging-discharging applications. We attribute this superior performance to the highly porous nature of graphene prepared with minimum restacking due to crimple nature wrinkles and the improved current collecting method

The trick is ultrasound
 
LockH should have wrote said:
Science fiction? Yah, like the electric bicycle in Europe, or China... (before we we born) :shock: There's probably lots of things that started out life as "science fiction"... (That took decades to come to life) Yes?
L
Click to expand...

Yes exactly the point I was making.
 
Sorry Master D...
L
 
It does not matter that it is not perfected yet. 10 million new ebikes a year just in china and most likely 5-10 times that world wide and all demanding higher power densities and higher reliability. Portable power on just about everything else we use is expanding in great numbers also with similar requirements. Add the automotive trends, and the rest will take care of itself soon enough.
 
ebikes, in the short term, may be hurting china. Here's why:

Most of the major cities have banned motorcycles/gasoline scooters since the 90s. In the last decade, annual sales of e-bikes has increased 20x to 30 million. There are almost .5 Billion regular bikes. So what has actually happened is ebikes aren't replacing gasoline scooters or expensive cars, ebikes are replacing unpowered bikes. Considering more than 95% of ebikes use lead batteries, and that most of the electricty in China comes from coal, there's more junk in the air than ever.

But the pollution is displaced from the tailpipe to distant power plants, companies are making more money selling more expensive bikes and materials and electricity and poor people have easier lives, all at the expense of the planet. Same as it ever was.

But we can't get there from here so until the day solar panels charge graphene supercaps for bikes 3D printed from recycled materials, we'll call this progress.
 
So there's new standards a new coal powerplant would have to reach in America. (As in FAT CHANCE.) On the one hand it's good news, on the other hand where does our power come from in the interim? I've heard about all the disposable batteries Chiina goes through, now this with SLA's.

But people obsess over proposed technologies and ask (Demand) 'What are we waiting for?' We're waiting until it works. Anyone remember Orson Welles: "We will sell no wine before its' time."

And what I get from that report won't make someone that's in a rush to smile. Doesn't sound like you'll be replacing your 12s LiPO with 14s "Teflonized acetylene black on stainless steel" anytime soon. Just hope these Chinese bikes don't drive up the price on that LiPO.
 
58Wh/kg doesn't include packaging that energy storage material. Sadly that may cut that figure by a lot.

Still its damn exciting news! Electrochemical caps work well. Its just like a lithium ion battery, but take away the traveling ion middle man. This is awesome to see the energy and power density climbing. :)

This build process seems rough, but not much rougher than making lithium ion cells, easier in some ways.
 
Simple solution *maybe*. Just add a one-time recycling fee to the cost of the new batts. Something "hurtful", if they are NOT exchanged for fresh stuff/batts...

Yes?
L
 
Well, we have that $10 tacked onto your car battery that some people leave in parking lots and on the side of the road, I'm not sure a bigger one would make much difference. One auto parts store was lost when I brought the battery in for the $10.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top