Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Hillhater said:
BMZ's claims for their 21700 (Sony cell ?).....
A larger cell, with more capacity, but it weighs less ????
50% more energy
60% more capacity ?
68% increase in output ?
4 times more discharge current ?

If half those claims are true,...it will kill 18650s for EV use
Note this is "more energy", but not "energy density".
21700 is +43% larger just by volume, very likely +50-55% larger in active material volume (due to can and empty space in the middle of roll).
So in result you will have very little increase per weight and per volume.
If the takeover will take place, I give it at least 5-7 years.
 
Sounds like writers that have no clue about batteries or the basic laws of physics.

Like how does it have 68% increase in output and 4 times more discharge current and 60% more capacity. Somehow the math isn't working out.
 
It's possible author of that ebiketips article Elliot Johnston ("Studied Sport Journalism at University of Sunderland")... well, lets say physics wasn't high on list of sports journalism subjects. Also? Folks having developed these cells might be a bit... obscure in giving out some "free details".

:wink:
 
Those quoted claims came straight from a press release issued by BMZ in Germany.
I suspect there was a certain amount of deliberate confusion intended (sales bullshit) compounded by possible translation discrepancies.....but that is me being generous !
Either way, we dont really know what these cells can do for certain yet.
But i am fairly sure they are Sony technology, so if its a development on the VTC5 tech,...then there is some hope !
 
Hehe... Guaranteed (pretty much) ya can add Customer Abuse into factors affecting life, etc.

;)
 
ES Bible "No suitable matches were found."... for "nanolithia"? Seen from the MIT news office back on July 25, 2016:
"
"New lithium-oxygen battery greatly improves energy efficiency, longevity"
("New chemistry could overcome key drawbacks of lithium-air batteries.")
http://news.mit.edu/2016/new-lithiu...tly-improves-energy-efficiency-longevity-0725

In part:
The new battery concept, called a nanolithia cathode battery, is described in the journal Nature Energy in a paper by Ju Li, the Battelle Energy Alliance Professor of Nuclear Science and Engineering at MIT; postdoc Zhi Zhu; and five others at MIT, Argonne National Laboratory, and Peking University in China.

... and:
In the new variant, the same kind of electrochemical reactions take place between lithium and oxygen during charging and discharging, but they take place without ever letting the oxygen revert to a gaseous form. Instead, the oxygen stays inside the solid and transforms directly between its three redox states, while bound in the form of three different solid chemical compounds, Li2O, Li2O2, and LiO2, which are mixed together in the form of a glass. This reduces the voltage loss by a factor of five, from 1.2 volts to 0.24 volts, so only 8 percent of the electrical energy is turned to heat. “This means faster charging for cars, as heat removal from the battery pack is less of a safety concern, as well as energy efficiency benefits,” Li says.
 
Graphene news is good. for example, some researchers sprayed a bit of graphene on the leaves eaten by silk worms and the result is stronger and conductive silk which may even be useful for clothes. Here is a market report for graphene batteries: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/global-graphene-battery-market-worth-130000931.html

https://www.google.fr/search?num=100&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=620&tbm=nws&q=graphene&oq=graphene
 
21700 will confuse the market. it's a 12% hike in volume. It probably enriches Samsung and LG to make weird battery standards because it makes a trap market for them. If they had made 27900, 42920 that would be fine. 21700 doesn't have a logical reason, it's for messing with the market, they should have made 21700 to begin with not on top of an 18650. A car would be cooler with 42920 in it.

18650[40] 168A 1500–3500 18.6 × 65.2 This cell type is used in many laptop computer batteries, the Tesla Model S, electronic
19670 Protected 18650[42] 2200–3600 19 × 67 Correct designation of protected 18650.[34]
21700 20650, 21-70 4200-4800 21 × 70 Announced by Samsung[43][44] To be produced at Tesla Gigafactory 1 for Tesla Model 3.[45]
25500[46] 2500–5000 24.3 × 49.2 About the same diameter as a C.
26650[47] 3300–5200 [48] 26.5 × 65.4 Popular size as[49] ANR26650 LiFePO
32600[50] 3000–6000 32 × 61.9 About the same diameter as a D cell but longer.
32650 5000–6000 32 × 67.7 Popular in larger LED flashlights.
75400 80 - 150 7.5 × 40 Used in some cheap E cigarettes.
 
"Toyota says new technology means longer battery life":
https://www.japantoday.com/category...says-new-technology-means-longer-battery-life

TOKYO — Toyota Motor Corp has developed a new way of observing the movements of tiny particles in batteries used to power electric vehicles - an advance it says will help boost their cruise range by 10 percent to 15 percent.

Toyota engineer Hisao Yamashige explained to reporters Thursday at the Japanese automaker’s Tokyo office the complex method for tracking the lithium ions, which are tiny particles in lithium-ion batteries, also used in laptops and smartphones.

Toyota’s new technology will allow the company to test various materials and battery structures, and an improved electric vehicle is being planned for the commercial market within the next “several years,” said Yoshinori Suga, a department manager.

The tests are being carried out in collaboration with Japanese research organization Riken, using its high-intensity X-ray facility. Toyota will present its observation method at a battery symposium in Japan later this month, sharing it with other automakers, although not its findings.
 
zzoing said:
21700 will confuse the market. it's a 12% hike in volume. It probably enriches Samsung and LG to make weird battery standards because it makes a trap market for them. If they had made 27900, 42920 that would be fine. 21700 doesn't have a logical reason, it's for messing with the market, they should have made 21700 to begin with not on top of an 18650. A car would be cooler with 42920 in it.

It isn't just about the volume of the cell, but also the actual geometry of the cell that allows for a more optimum shape and size for the electrodes and electrolyte.

Of course, this is more guilding of the lily around current battery technology, but when you are looking at more than doubling the world's production of lithium batteries it makes sense to optimise the form factor so you can improve the performance by as much as possible. This change is less about shaking up the world but more about Tesla (in combination with other partners) coming up with a custom battery to better suit it's needs in relation to electric vehicles. Manufacturers have been doing this for years for other applications it's just that those have been on the small scale, or for different reasons (such as form factor).
 
"Florida scientists create battery with 20 times the longevity of lithium-ion":
https://cyclingindustry.news/florid...y-with-20-times-the-longevity-of-lithium-ion/

Scientists at the University of Central Florida have made a battery breakthrough that could greater open up the potential of the e-bike market.

Creating a supercapacitor battery prototype, the researchers have brought to fruition a cell that lasts “20 times longer” than an ordinary lithium-ion cell.

Capable of a full recharge in a matter of seconds, the researchers have run a prototype cell over 30,000 charge cycles, meaning not only will the power last longer, but a replacement battery would unlikely be needed for the lifetime of the e-bike.

"High-Performance One-Body Core/Shell Nanowire Supercapacitor Enabled by Conformal Growth of Capacitive 2D WS2 Layers"
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acsnano.6b06111

nn-2016-06111s_0007.gif


Two-dimensional (2D) transition-metal dichalcogenides (TMDs) have emerged as promising capacitive materials for supercapacitor devices owing to their intrinsically layered structure and large surface areas. Hierarchically integrating 2D TMDs with other functional nanomaterials has recently been pursued to improve electrochemical performances; however, it often suffers from limited cyclic stabilities and capacitance losses due to the poor structural integrity at the interfaces of randomly assembled materials. Here, we report high-performance core/shell nanowire supercapacitors based on an array of one-dimensional (1D) nanowires seamlessly integrated with conformal 2D TMD layers. The 1D and 2D supercapacitor components possess “one-body” geometry with atomically sharp and structurally robust core/shell interfaces, as they were spontaneously converted from identical metal current collectors via sequential oxidation/sulfurization. These hybrid supercapacitors outperform previously developed any stand-alone 2D TMD-based supercapacitors; particularly, exhibiting an exceptional charge–discharge retention over 30,000 cycles owing to their structural robustness, suggesting great potential for unconventional energy storage technologies.

`Kay. My Greek may be a little rusty...
 
Im all for longer life and fast recharges, but more important is energy density, a metric that capacitor devices are sadly lacking in......no mention of that...or cost....or availability ?
And of course there is always the issue of where you would find a 100-200kW charger (or supply !). to utilise that "recharge in seconds". ability for your little 1kWh pack ?
...The mind boggles at what you would do for recharging a 100kWh EV Car pack !
 
Yawn. Saturday. Must be time for a "Breakthrough Battery Discovery"...

"Toyota Makes Breakthrough Battery Discovery, Hopes To Increase EV Range By 15%":
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertels...opes-to-increase-ev-range-by-15/#66f193d155d9

Toyota has developed what it says is “the world’s first method for observing the behavior of lithium ions in an electrolyte when a battery charges and discharges.” Able to observe those ions for the first time in real time, Toyota researchers think they have found the reason why a battery ages.
 
The reason is that the electrodes gets raped in every charge and discharge in simple terms. Toyota keeps things to herself, you can look at the patent wars between US and Japan, just funny, also it deters anyone from patenting anything.
 
ecotech said:
The reason is that the electrodes gets raped in every charge and discharge in simple terms. Toyota keeps things to herself, you can look at the patent wars between US and Japan, just funny, also it deters anyone from patenting anything.

The rape isn't so bad in charge and discharge in modern EV cells. Many will easily do more cycles/miles than the useful life of the vehicle they are powering. Just time sitting at a high SOC at high temps is already the dominant decay factor over use in most modern EVs. Watching ion movement (Toyota's thing above) doesn't help you with calendar decay sadly.

That said, I've chatted with some Toyota battery RnD guys who were incredibly competent, so I would not count them out of the game despite having a foolishly late start.

All the automotive MFGs who don't already have a majority of all new development resources going into EV development programs at this point will be the mgf's some people will remember used to make cars.
 
This may be a little off, but, I would like LFP to respond to this. This is in regard to batteries burning up. My son recently bought a new phone, and, the battery gets hot in it. I have told him to buy a new battery, but, his phone provider says it's sometimes normal for this to happen. :roll:

CPSC officials say they have concluded the review of the original batch of Note 7s, accepting Samsung's explanation that the rounded-corner design of the battery triggered problems.
 
Harold in CR said:
This may be a little off, but, I would like LFP to respond to this. This is in regard to batteries burning up. My son recently bought a new phone, and, the battery gets hot in it. I have told him to buy a new battery, but, his phone provider says it's sometimes normal for this to happen. :roll:

CPSC officials say they have concluded the review of the original batch of Note 7s, accepting Samsung's explanation that the rounded-corner design of the battery triggered problems.

What is hot?

Numbers mean everything. My motorola gets warm at times I would guess 45-50 deg C but only when I do something hard on the battery. Like run the light for a long time and or charge it very fast.
 
There's a fair number of phones (of people I know around here) that get hot in use (enough to be more than uncomfortable to hold), in the battery area. I don't know if that's from the battery having a high enough internal resistance that when used at the rates the phone pulls current from it at that it heats it up, or if it's from other parts of the phone generating heat and sinking it into the battery.

Or some other cause....
 
I will check with my Son. Some days he uses it quite a bit. I know that's not an accurate number of usages, but,I will check further.
 
Harold in CR said:
This may be a little off, but, I would like LFP to respond to this. This is in regard to batteries burning up. My son recently bought a new phone, and, the battery gets hot in it. I have told him to buy a new battery, but, his phone provider says it's sometimes normal for this to happen. :roll:

CPSC officials say they have concluded the review of the original batch of Note 7s, accepting Samsung's explanation that the rounded-corner design of the battery triggered problems.


I would also first look for something running the background pegging CPU usage.

If you manually saved whatever photos/data you wanted(if it wasnt already backed up), then do a factory clear/memory backup process on it, boot it up and the battery gets warm when charging then I would be inclined to think it's a hardware problem.

With respect to the samsung thing, I'm not qualified to comment as I don't know how they did the oval corners. Pouch or can cells are tricky business to get perfect even in the most ideal formats to MFG. If you're getting cute with shapes, I could see that going poorly.
 
LITHIUM METAL CELLS.
http://www.dispatchtribunal.com/major-improvements-in-smartphone-battery-technology-expected-in-2017/29487
.........the size of lithium metal batteries is almost half that of a regular lithium-ion battery.

Not just for smartphones – Cars too

These lithium metal batteries are not just for smartphones. The company is aggressively working on getting the commercial version of these batteries for powering electric cars by the end of 2018. Currently, electric cars can travel a distance of 200 miles using a single charge. If everything goes as planned, the new batteries would be of double the capacity, translating to a distance of 400 miles on a single charge.

Other uses planned for these rechargeable batteries are for wearables and other devices.

While you wait for these lithium metal batteries to get commercialized, check out this amazing compact charger that also doubles up as a power bank.

First application on Drones

The flagship application of these lithium metal batteries will be done on drones in November 2016. The company intends to test out the battery by fitting it on drones and balloons. These drones or balloons would be used in developing worlds for providing free internet, as well as for doing surveys for disaster reliefs.

If successful, these rechargeable lithium metal batteries are going to be game changers. But for now, it is a waiting game – and hoping that it not going to disappoint like its predecessors. Until then, to paraphrase a ‘modern’ blessing– May the internet be always on, May your batteries last very long!

ALSO...
..And meanwhile, RMS continues to "roll his own" EESDs and rides them to work these days too..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P266pdT71tI

BUT...
Its odd that we hear so little about these realistic practical developments that are actually being field tested, ...
....whilst the worlds main stream media is full of spin for the Florida university "miracle" cell that is still little more than an unproven idea ?
http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/2016/11/24/Battery-breakthrough-means-you-could-charge-your-smartphone-in-seconds ! :roll:
 
The problem will either be either buying the graphite or grafoil or if you use natural templates a.k.a. RMS's weed :mrgreen: :lol: to carbonize them the problem is with the equipment, vacuum furnaces cost 100s of k, then again if you use metals in anode/cathode you also need a vacuum furnace to make the metal salts. There are sodium batteries that charge 10x times faster, are 3 times more energy dense and last 10x times longer but the manufacturing is difficult so nobody makes them.

Also you have to differentiate between lab chemistry and practical chemistry, if it can't be made in 100s of kg it's trash.
 
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