Tilting Motor Works - Tilting Three Wheel Motorcycle Video

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Received the following in an email today, really enjoyed the video. I didn't embed the video because I'm not sure if he gets votes if its viewed that way:

Hello,

As you know, I have been working on building a company around my tilting three wheeler called Tilting Motor Works.

I entered a video contest with Tilting Motor Works entitled “I Am Free Enterprise” sponsored by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce http://www.freeenterprise.com/take-action/video-contest/

The way I move to the next round is to get as many hits on my YouTube video over the next week as I can. You can view my entry at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj6MhkuRijw

You will see some of the progress I have been making recently including some pictures of my Road King prototype. I was hoping you might be able to view the video and share it with as many people as you think might be interested to get me into the top 25 most viewed videos. There is $50,000 grand prize.

As Al Capone famously said, “Vote early and vote often”.

Thank you for your support,

Cheers,

Bob Mighell
Tilting Motor Works
bob@tiltingmotorworks.com
http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com

 

[ewert]

I'm thinking recumbent style sitting position, low frontal area, full aero fairings on sides with a door and all the way back to a Kamm tail, lots of battery space up front to keep weight and CoG near the front and low ... Mmmm, yummy. =P

 

[John in CR]

I guess he missed the point that with a leaner widespread wheels are unnecessary, so the big aero losses are for naught.

 

[Malcolm]

I guess he missed the point that with a leaner widespread wheels are unnecessary, so the big aero losses are for naught.

It could also be a deliberate design decision for aesthetic/psychological reasons. Many people would look at a narrow track tilting trike and think a) that looks weird and/or b) that looks as if it will fall over.

Does anyone know any more about the tilt control system?

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I guess he missed the point that with a leaner widespread wheels are unnecessary, so the big aero losses are for naught.

Is the width required to allow space for the top of the wheels to lean in?

Is the width required to allow space for the suspension components (or good handling) and the tilting mechanism?

Do the longer tubes needed for the increased width really add a substantial amount of wind resistance?

Does it really matter on a motorcycle with 140 hp?

Does anyone know any more about the tilt control system?

Maybe you can glean a little more from his web site (pretty sparse)?

Maybe he has filed a patent that you can find with an online search?

 

[michaelplogue]

Seems to me the tilt is still based off of body position, rather than steering angle and speed. So this is really just a motorcycle with a third wheel - yes you have better traction. But it's not something that could be integrated into a 'vehicle' per se. It still requires a shift of weight from the driver - which is fine for a motorcycle. Howerver, for a 'sit-down vehicle (with regular car seats) this would not be practical.

 

[ewert]

Seems to me the tilt is still based off of body position, rather than steering angle and speed. So this is really just a motorcycle with a third wheel - yes you have better traction. But it's not something that could be integrated into a 'vehicle' per se. It still requires a shift of weight from the driver - which is fine for a motorcycle. Howerver, for a 'sit-down vehicle (with regular car seats) this would not be practical.

Maybe it is a language thing, but I'm pretty sure unless you are talking of racing bikes (of which I don't know but they sure seem to use their bodies differently), the body weight follows the bike after countersteering, not the other way around ...

But yes, he talked a bit about the choice, and so yes it is a bike not a steered vehicle (because as he said, what's so cool about tilting if you don't have bike type handling in other ways too...) =)

IMHO, if it works good, it fixes a couple of really dangerous motorcycle qualities, while retains most of the motorcycle driving feel.

 

[Malcolm]

One aspect that can cause problems in natural leaning designs like this is whether or how to link steering and tilting mechanisms. Because the optimum tilt angle for a given steering angle changes with speed, steering and tilting can't be directly linked. I know someone who built a natural leaning delta trike that worked quite well. He chose to keep tilting and steering completely separate, but didn't take the design any further as he was worried that someone might try to steer one way and tilt the other way at speed. Of course, you could do that on a bike as well, but you don't often hear of people trying it.

 

[John in CR]

Seems to me the tilt is still based off of body position, rather than steering angle and speed. So this is really just a motorcycle with a third wheel - yes you have better traction. But it's not something that could be integrated into a 'vehicle' per se. It still requires a shift of weight from the driver - which is fine for a motorcycle. Howerver, for a 'sit-down vehicle (with regular car seats) this would not be practical.

Michael, while you can change body position relative to the bike as part of turning, it's not mandatory at all. That's what countersteer is all about.

The first part of your comment interests me. Isn't the lean angle of a 2 wheeler the optimum? It always seemed to me that the leaning trikes with less lean were some kind of compromise that only obtained a portion of handling benefits of leaning.

John

 

[michaelplogue]

I guess my point is that it's the body that's making the trike lean, not the steering/speed - which in my mind is a better option. Don't get me wrong - I think it's pretty nifty, and I'm a huge fan of reverse trikes. I'd just prefer to see a 'smart' leaning reverse trike - similar to how the Carver works. It's tilt is based off of its speed and how much (and how quickly) you turn the wheel. This application is fine for motorcycles, where your upper body is free to shift your weight in order to make a turn (and tilt). However, I'm thinking more along the lines of a three wheel 'vehicle' (ie car) where you are sitting back in a fixed position. This sort of "natural tilting" as Malcom better describes it - would simply not work in that situation.

 

[John in CR]

Michael,

My point is that a bike or motorcycle is always at the correct lean angle in turns. That angle is determined by the force of gravity, speed, and radius of the turn. Without it being exactly right the turn isn't possible at that radius. The same will be true even if the rider is sitting in a fixed position in a car type seat. This "natural tilting" is the optimum, leaving approaches like the Carver compromises. The issue with "natural tilting" is that it requires a mechanism to lock it in an upright at very low speeds or when stopped, since any tilt to either side lowers the CG making it always "fall" away from center.

I have seen one effort to use the geometry of the independent swingarms on a tilting delta to make it self balance in the upright position. While self balancing is possible the results during turning are less than optimum and require some of the body english needed with a non-leaning trike.

John

 

[ewert]

I guess my point is that it's the body that's making the trike lean, not the steering/speed - which in my mind is a better option. Don't get me wrong - I think it's pretty nifty, and I'm a huge fan of reverse trikes. I'd just prefer to see a 'smart' leaning reverse trike - similar to how the Carver works. It's tilt is based off of its speed and how much (and how quickly) you turn the wheel. This application is fine for motorcycles, where your upper body is free to shift your weight in order to make a turn (and tilt). However, I'm thinking more along the lines of a three wheel 'vehicle' (ie car) where you are sitting back in a fixed position. This sort of "natural tilting" as Malcom better describes it - would simply not work in that situation.

I bolded the part that's most relevant. One does not (if handling the motorcycle properly, in normal riding, again racing bikes are out of my expertise area) shift weight to tilt & turn, one countersteers to tilt & turn and then the body follows the motion. That is how the driving instructors here decipher whether a student driver is turning correctly: does the body lag behind tilting, or is the student trying to tilt the bike with his body. Around at 3min of the 2nd video he has posted you can see how the body is "lagging" behind, or rather how it is always outside of the tilt angle than preceding and being inside of the tilt angle (sorry no idea of proper terms but I hope you get the idea what I'm trying to say).

Based on the 2nd video, it seems somewhat safe to say that the engineer has designed it so that normal countersteering is the method of steering. If it is self-regulating like a normal motorcycle concerning tilt & turn, no "smart" stuff is needed, because it works off laws of physics and does it better than any "smart" speed & turn angle dependant wheel turning based system ...

 

[vanilla ice]

I think you guys are all correct. Michael is just saying a free tilting tadpole isn't practical for a car type enclosed vehicle. I know I'd hate to have to do low speed maneuvers in something like that. Think about a 3mph u-turn.. on a motorcycle you lean the bike sharply while NOT leaning your body. High speed stuff would fine as you would use pure counter-steering.

 

[gogo]

New video.

[youtube]T3TumQ-ueMU[/youtube]

 

[The fingers]

A "thumbs up" from Jay may go a long way, but will it do a burnout? Maybe if it was electric it would. 8)

 

[MitchJi]

New video.

[youtube]T3TumQ-ueMU[/youtube]

Thanks for posting this. 10k plus a barley frame and a electric motor, controller and batteries seems affordable and would be a sweet ride.

 

[gogo]

Thanks for posting this. 10k plus a barley frame and a electric motor, controller and batteries seems affordable and would be a sweet ride.

Hehe, "barely frame". I was most taken by the fact that its a bolt-on to a standard headset. This should be scalable.