Todays laugh.

[dogman dan]

Dogman tries to weld. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I really suck at it. All I have is a toy stick welder from china that cost $80.View attachment Poor weld.jpg

Actually I expected it to turn out worse! I wanted to replace the hose clamp on a torque arm with two bolts on the arm for the racing bike. At least the weld won't be supporting my weight. Just resisting a pulling force on the torque arm. My main problem with welding is I really can't see what is going on so I end up welding 1/2 inch from where I intended. I need to try an auto darkening helmet. I tend to flash my eyes lowering the helmet too slow, and then I can't see anything at all with my pupils like dots.

I need to practice more, but with the toy welder it's hard. After one stick it often overheats and needs to rest till the breaker resets. So you have to weld really slow to keep from tripping the breaker, and always have to start the stick on a cold spot. It sure gets easier to start if you can get going on a red hot place.

 

[AussieJester]

Auto Darkening helmet will definately help.. i used
to quickly drag the rod across the part of the job i was going to weld till it gets to where i want to start the flashing as you drag it lights it up enough to see your start point... With Auto Darkening helmet this wouldnt be necessary you stab right on the start point. Best advice i could give you though is buy a MiG h :lol:

Best of lucks DoGMaN welding thin stuff like bike tube with arc is tricky.

KiM

 

[Thud]

Hey dogman,
I seen worse......
+1 for the auto darkening sheilds.
I also SuK at stick welding, Far mor comfortable with an oxy-acetlyn set up. & the chepo tig I bought from Harbor freight. (the gas bottle & regulator cost more than the welder).

I just caution if you burned through your tubeing on the forks anywhere you may have a weak spot. (I would recomend brazing for something like this). Not to be an alarmest, But a fork failure is hard to ride out of.

 

[liveforphysics]

If the current was cranked up to max on the welder all ready, I would recomend going with a thinner electrode. It will help with the circuit breaker limit, and get some better penatration for your power level.

Set the helmet pivot loose enough you can have it just barely sit upright on your head by itself, so when you flick your head down, it falls down into place hands-free.

For getting the electrode to start where you want it to strike, just grab the end of the electrode with your free gloved hand a couple inches up from the tip, and scrape it across in little motions in the spot you want it to strike. This way, even when you can't see yet because the arc hasn't struck yet, you know you're in the right spot because your free hand has kept the tip of the electrode located correctly. It also really helps prevent sticking events.

If you're badly short on welder power (or want to minimize warping on a part), throw it in the oven with the electrodes at 400-500F. Then work on it hot.

 

[dogman dan]

Nice tips. Thanks Just the kind of stuff every welder knows but I don't. I've been a wood butcher for years. ( what steel workers call a carpenter)

so many things I need, that all would cut into my lipo budget! Wish I'd bought a flux wire instead of a stick.

I think I did OK on not burning any holes in the forks. Good quality cromo helped with that I think. I bet I'da burned through a wallmart bike fork.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Disclaimer: I am a welding noob, my work looks worse than yours, but its a truly wonderful feeling to have welded something. Welding rod is pretty cheap, in the beginning I recommend cutting the rod in half to make it shorter. That helped me a lot...

 

[wineboyrider]

A for effort! I always screw stuff up the first time I try anyways. :|

 

[dequinox]

Go with 3/32 E7013. Its a good, low hydrogen all-purpose electrode that you can just drag once you start off. Keep the rod distance from the plate at about the thickness of the rod, maybe a little more. Keep the heat pointed at your plate there and not the fork or you could burn through. Try some practice welding first too. Good luck!

 

[beast775]

great try for a cheapo welder,i always burn through with stick welding,but then you could make a welder from one of your batterries. :lol:

 

[vanilla ice]

Set the helmet pivot loose enough you can have it just barely sit upright on your head by itself, so when you flick your head down, it falls down into place hands-free.

This! I've been welding for years without a fancy auto helmet.

Also you can try welding out in the bright sun or shine like 1500W worth of lights at point blank range, on to your work area if you really really need to see your start point through the shield to learn. Another important point for me.. getting the work pieces positioned perfectly and getting myself seated nice and comfy is half the battle to getting a good weld. That way you aren't fidgeting half way through running a bead and all your concentration is on the welding.

I hated arc welding, chipping slag sucks. We have an arc machine here that just collects dust. Gas or Tig gets much better results!

 

[dogman dan]

Gee, I was sure I'd get more razzing. I was very carefull to try to keep the rod tip on the thick plate rather than the fork. Each of em came out with at least an inch of actually decent looking weld on one side or the other, so I think it will hold up enough to attach torque arms. I was using some pretty skinny rod, 3/32 6013 whatever that means. I have a big box of it, but stopped trying to learn in frustration with the welder. It was when I'd stick the rod too often that I'd pop its breaker. Half a rod really helps me get it going when the steel is still cold. I found it helpfull to heat up longer rod on a practice peice of steel first, and then switch to working on the real job with a hot tip.

It's gotta beat a hose clamp for holding on a torque arm and I can always hide it under bondo if I want to.

 

[Harold in CR]

If you try to weld in a circular pattern, FROM the thick to the thin, it will absorb the heat into the thick piece, while still allowing the rod to burn onto the thin. Just keep it moving. If you stop you burn through.

I find that a cold rod(Not RED) is harder to start. It wants to stick. I use 6013 unless I need more tensile strength.

Guy that taught me fundamentals, said, NEVER rely on the WELD to handle the strain. Always try to use the metal itself to hold the strain, and the weld just to keep it all together. A little difficult on that job you did.

A GOOD grinding disc will make all welds look MUCH better. You just need practice, that's all. Try to steady your rod hand, using the other hand, just like LFP said.

 

[whitecat]

Welding is not easy, especially arc welding. I have been in this professionally for some years now, and still I can make bad arc welds if I'm not concentrated enough. You are using 6013 electrodes which is a universal electrode for non alloyed steel to mid alloyed steel, that is a good choice for this. Yield strength is sufficient, and diffuse properties are ok. One thing though, that these electrodes are susceptible to, is moisture. You might have problems with electrodes sticking if electrode had not been baked before use. That moisture trapped in electrode's flux sheath might also incur too much dissolved hydrogen into the weld pool, so it might make welds prone to cracking. That can be remedied by baking electrodes prior to use, for about an hour at a temperature of 120 deg C. After baking, they should be much more easier to start without sticking and weld should be flowing better.

As for welding, remember to drag the electrode, keep it at about 30 to 45 deg angle in relation to the surface, and to have steady, slow zig-zag motion (weaving) while traveling forward along the joint. Steady hand and practice is the key here, since you will not see the weld pool with arc welding, because molten flux will float on top of the molten base metal and filler metal (electrode). You have to go at it by feel, and by sound. With practice, you will learn how it sounds when all is going good, and what speed you should use - not too fast or it will not penetrate enough, not too slow, or you will burn trough the base metal.

If you are interested, here is a pretty good start up in arc welding, step by step: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/arc-tutorial.htm
It is a very good guide, for a beginner. And for those 3/32" electrodes, they are about 2,5 mm equivalent, and they need about 60 to 80 Amps of welding power. Judging from your pictures, you need to increase power a bit to get better penetration, and steady your hand, and go slower to get a good nice molten pool of metal formed, then you just lead it along the joint to the end. But for a first timer, it is a good weld, I've seen far far worse from some ppl that came to my firm to learn and to get licensed to A grade welders, so this is nothing to be ashamed off, you just need more practice.

 

[torker]

I had a Campbell Hausfeld that was supposed to be 60 amps on a 20 amp circuit but as soon as I got my Lincoln I realized it put out more heat at 40 amps. Its lowest setting. I had a lot of trouble trying to run a bead with the little one. Now with the big welder if it is sticking a lot I sometimes cheat and turn it up a notch till I get it going and then drop back down to finish. I got a auto darkening helmet at Harbor Freight on sale and love it too. Heating that rod and maybe the piece you are working on should help. Is that rod fresh/new? If not maybe the heating will do the trick. Keep at it. I stick welded the recumbent I built. It didn't start out pretty but it got better Yes I used a little fiberglass and bondo too :lol:

 

[dequinox]

Gee, I was sure I'd get more razzing. I was very carefull to try to keep the rod tip on the thick plate rather than the fork. Each of em came out with at least an inch of actually decent looking weld on one side or the other, so I think it will hold up enough to attach torque arms. I was using some pretty skinny rod, 3/32 6013 whatever that means. I have a big box of it, but stopped trying to learn in frustration with the welder. It was when I'd stick the rod too often that I'd pop its breaker. Half a rod really helps me get it going when the steel is still cold. I found it helpfull to heat up longer rod on a practice peice of steel first, and then switch to working on the real job with a hot tip.

It's gotta beat a hose clamp for holding on a torque arm and I can always hide it under bondo if I want to.

Sounds like you are using a 120v welder... those little cheapo bastards blow breakers all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I'd keep an eye out at yard sales and on craigslist for one of these:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Nsp&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&q=lincoln+225&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9299636427287940386&ei=kG8uTI2HNcLknAfV6MWyAw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCsQ8wIwAg#

They are bullet-proof and last for a very long time. They are easily adaptable to a dryer outlet...and if you have good new household components...you can weld at 90 to 125 or so without popping the breaker. I got mine for $50 several years ago...I've left it out in the rain, mud, and sometimes snow and it still welds like the day I got it. It was old then!

You already had the rod I had in mind for ya, good going. It only needs a little oscillating...and keep the pattern simple...circles, half moons, straight back and forth.

OH and to keep from flipping the breaker as much, when the rod sticks to the work-piece, and it will, LET GO OF IT FROM THE ELECTRODE HOLDER END. It's much easier to deal with that way. If the tip of the electrode is nasty, keep an old thick piece of brass, bronze or copper around and strike an arc on that for a few seconds...its the stick welding equivalent of sharpening your pencil.

 

[torker]

Yep there ya go Lincoln 225 Mine looks just like that and I bet it is 30 yrs. old.

 

[mwkeefer]

I've seen and done worse with OxyActl

It looks stronger than most walmart crap anyway, I would trust it... maybe spot the non-filled areas next?

If I could afford a nice Mig or even better a Tig and a plasma cutter... I'd be welding my own kit up too, oh yea and a new drill press and a lathe and CNC... well you get the point, this can get way out of control ... very fast

-Mike

 

[AussieJester]

The blowing fueses reminded me of my old man in this very garage i sit and type this
post, some 30 years ago he welded up a boat trailer, he told me years later he had to
replace the fuse with with a nail to stop them popping I guess the wiring is still ok
the garage is still here and hasn't burnt down

DoGMaN will lock himself away and practise, in a few months we will see a thread with a full custom frame for
Next years Death Race complete with non frock motor ... well i can dreams DoGMaN hehe


KiM

p.s the boat trailer towed our 25 foot launch for years too haha

 

[BLUESTREAK]

HEY DOGMAN: you can get a good helment with the auto-darkining lense at harbor freight for about 40.00 it's a good buy i bought 2 on sale.btw if you ever get a small mig you will never go back to stick.

 

[dingoEsride]

So true, mig's rule, till my sips circuitry blew, and isn't the torque arm sposed to be at the back of the fork, not sure myself or are you trusting the weld

 

[dogman dan]

More time than money, or I'd be buying a nice mig. When I saw AJ's first thread I just drooled and started wishing I'd been a steelworker instead of a wood butcher all my life.

If baking the rod helps, I had that covered. That metal garage for my tools, toys, hot air balloons etc has been at 120F for a month. But I'll remember that in the future, and put some rod out in the sun before using it.

About all I could afford in a new welder would be a $100 harbor freight flux wire welder. Any better than a cheapo stick? Or just a different version of the same thing? No way I can spend for a real mig or tig. I'll be watching for a sale on a helmet, or just auto dark glass for the one I have.

Part of why that weld is so spotty is that I was stopping every few seconds, afraid I was going to burn through. I was trying to puddle some steel on the thick iron, and then bring the rod to the fork and back quickly so I didn't make holes in the tube. But when I'd restart, I had to start again past the slag

 

[gwhy!]

Hi Dogman,
The welder I have was very cheap (gassless mig) £59.00 ukp its only a 90A one but it can produce good results welding upto 3-4mm steel. I have had my welder for ages and only really used it to put blobs of metal onto metal but as you say I seen AJ bike and it has inspired me to try and build a custom frame ( Dam you KiM, what have you started ) and now after a bit of practice my welds are 100% better. The best thing I done to improve my welds was to also buy a auto darkening helmet... a good investment.

 

[AussieJester]

About all I could afford in a new welder would be a $100 harbor freight flux wire welder.

Tiz all i use buddy, mine cost ~170 of ebay 130amp
gasless mig... 90-100amp is all you need for this
type of work IMHO, we ain't dealing with thick steel

Keep practising you will get better real quick
you obviously good with your hands welding will come
to you just give it some time

Sorry guys hehee...

Seriously though its well work the time/money when you can make your own custom frames to the specs YOU want ...best of luck.

KiM

EDIT: With regards to the helmets, don't skimp tooo much on an auto darkening helmet you only have one set of eyes DoGmaN i forgot to add earlier too, i think someone suggested it though, when i weld on my workbench i have a 500watt halogen shining on the job so i can see, if you can't see WTF your doing your pushing shit uphill, have to be able to see the lil puddle your pushing. :wink:

 

[madact]

Hey, if you want some razzing, I haven't seen anything like that since some very non-tech guys in tech studies at high school tried it

That said, stick welding is an art, a science, a pain, and right hard to do on the thin stuff - you walk the fine line between blowing holes and using a stick so thin it feels like trying to knit from the wrong end of a 10 foot needle... The first time I used a stick welder I thought the results looked really pretty - until I chipped the slag off

If you really want to get into bike modding, braze welding is probably the best way to go, as you won't burn through anything, though if you want to get into building new stuff, I'd advise you to go for MIG or TIG - even a cheapo MIG unit (get gas, not gassless) will have you looking for thinner tin cans to weld together in no time, and MIG, once you've worked out what current and feed rate to use on a job, is pretty much point-and-shoot

Myself, I got myself a nice AC/DC TIG / plasma unit recently (a not-so-cheap chinese job)... I was a bit nervous about that, as I had never done TIG before, but I welded a frame for a vacuum forming table I'm making, and the results really did come out. Only used it a couple of times before the rain set in, though. I plan on building a velomobile with it over the next few months, but I'm working out of half a carport, so bad weather doesn't help...

Oh yes, and get an auto-darkening helmet, you won't regret it.

 

[AussieJester]

Myself, I got myself a nice AC/DC TIG / plasma unit recently (a not-so-cheap chinese job)...

A WeldSmart maybe? Looking at one myself but without the Plasma cutter just DC Tig & Arc there is a local agent for them not too far from home. Inverter welders are the shot in this day and age i believe.

This mob might be of some use to you in future?

http://www.weldersdirect.com.au/category/75/TIG_-_WELDERS_-_DC

^^ these are the other china made welders i have been looking into also, by all accounts they go pretty damn good. If i got half as much use out of it as my gasless china mig it would be worth the money.

KiM