TSDZ 2 torque sensor doesn't make the motor rotate

[xelder]

Hello

I have a tsdz 2 with 6 pin vldc5 from Enerprof (probably after 2020 version) without speed sensor connected.

When I read on the vldc5 TE shows 94 and TE1 shows 0 and both values increase as I increase the power by rotating the cranks, the motor works on walk mode, but when I paddle the torque sensor doesn't make the motor rotate.

From what I can understand the torque sensor is connected to the controller and the communication goes to vldc5 and when I use walk mode the communication goes to the controller, so communication between vldc5 and controller it's working. H-bridge or ESC on the controller are working otherwise the motor wouldn't work on walk mode.

Can someone help me troubleshoot why the motor it's not working?

Thanks

 

[Zambam]

Why is your speed sensor not connected? Is your motor on a bike or on the bench?

What is "H-bridge" on the controller?

edit: per wikipedia:
"An H-bridge is an electronic circuit that switches the polarity of a voltage applied to a load. These circuits are often used in robotics and other applications to allow DC motors to run forwards or backwards."

As far as i know, the TSDZ2 motor runs in one direction only. It does not reverse polarity to the motor to make it run in reverse.

 

[Sturmey]

Hello

I have a tsdz 2 with 6 pin vldc5 from Enerprof (probably after 2020 version) without speed sensor connected.

When I read on the vldc5 TE shows 94 and TE1 shows 0 and both values increase as I increase the power by rotating the cranks, the motor works on walk mode, but when I paddle the torque sensor doesn't make the motor rotate.

From what I can understand the torque sensor is connected to the controller and the communication goes to vldc5 and when I use walk mode the communication goes to the controller, so communication between vldc5 and controller it's working. H-bridge or ESC on the controller are working otherwise the motor wouldn't work on walk mode.

Can someone help me troubleshoot why the motor it's not working?

Thanks

On my 36v Tsdz2 (2020 Pswpower, no mods or custom software), I checked the calibration of the torque sensor with a luggage scales and got a te reading of 92 and tei is 104 @5Kg, 122 @ 10Kg, 143@20 kg and 180 standing hard on the pedal (85Kg ?)

 

[docw009]

I've never been clever enough to get my VLDC5 to show the TE1/TE2 readings, but figure both would start around zero?

 

[Sturmey]

I've never been clever enough to get my VLDC5 to show the TE1/TE2 readings, but figure both would start around zero?

I found grecoa's post below very helpful in how to check the torque sensor and note his te value is 78. Even with the custom software, the te value is well above zero at rest.(30)

Help please, TSDZ2 problem...

Hi I have recently joined this forum and already need help :confused: After a little research I decided to convert my Carrera Kracken using a TSDZ2 mid motor as I liked the torque sensor feature. I have already been using Aliexpress and found what appears to be a reasonable supplier there...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

V-0.19/How-to-calibrate-the-torque-sensor.mediawiki at master · elem01/V-0.19

Contribute to elem01/V-0.19 development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

PS But there is a question as to why the sort of rest or default value is so high. I can only speculate that some kind of analogue hall sensor is used that has a default value midway or at half the supply voltage as in the example below.

|

Sensor Solutions offers analog Hall effect and magnetic proximity sensors, with centered offset voltages and custom-programmed sensors. Visit us today to learn more!

sensorso.com

 

[docw009]

I found grecoa's post below very helpful in how to check the torque sensor and note his te value is 78. Even with the custom software, the te value is well above zero at rest.(30)

Thanks. I tried it, It keeps going to the regular setup menu,

"To access this menu, when powered on and "Odo" displayed at bottom left, press and hold "i"+"power" for 10 seconds, then press "i" to cycle through "Odo" "Trip" "Avg" "Time" then next press will show "te" then "te1""

Still not clever enough. Tried both VLDC5's I own, Maybe on a warmer day, when it's not 35F where the bikes are stored. It's just for info anyway, I have OSF on both motors and one can adjust the multipliers to get the desired pedal feel, providing that the torque sensor works.

 

[xelder]

Why is your speed sensor not connected? Is your motor on a bike or on the bench?

What is "H-bridge" on the controller?

edit: per wikipedia:
"An H-bridge is an electronic circuit that switches the polarity of a voltage applied to a load. These circuits are often used in robotics and other applications to allow DC motors to run forwards or backwards."

As far as i know, the TSDZ2 motor runs in one direction only. It does not reverse polarity to the motor to make it run in reverse.

Hi
The tsdz it's mounted on the bike that is on rollers (to train in house), I didn't bought the speed sensor, I didn't need at that time. Does this makes the motor to not rotate?

I think for example to use the hand throttle on the vldc 5 8 pin you need to have the brakes attached.

I just thought that every dc motor would need an h-bridge to rotate, but that's not truth, but what I mean it's the motor driver it's working.

 

[xelder]

On my 36v Tsdz2 (2020 Pswpower, no mods or custom software), I checked the calibration of the torque sensor with a luggage scales and got a te reading of 92 and tei is 104 @5Kg, 122 @ 10Kg, 143@20 kg and 180 standing hard on the pedal (85Kg ?)

My tsdz it's also 36v and it as TE 94 on rest like a said previously. If I put my feet on the pedals with the brake it will go above 100! I tried to pedal on the rollers increasing the effort to 500w or so and the motor didn't start.

By "tei" you mean TE1, because I didn't understand the measurement values importance, if I input force it will go up as I increase the force...so I guess it's working!!

 

[xelder]

I found grecoa's post below very helpful in how to check the torque sensor and note his te value is 78. Even with the custom software, the te value is well above zero at rest.(30)

Help please, TSDZ2 problem...

Hi I have recently joined this forum and already need help :confused: After a little research I decided to convert my Carrera Kracken using a TSDZ2 mid motor as I liked the torque sensor feature. I have already been using Aliexpress and found what appears to be a reasonable supplier there...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

V-0.19/How-to-calibrate-the-torque-sensor.mediawiki at master · elem01/V-0.19

Contribute to elem01/V-0.19 development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

PS But there is a question as to why the sort of rest or default value is so high. I can only speculate that some kind of analogue hall sensor is used that has a default value midway or at half the supply voltage as in the example below.

|

Sensor Solutions offers analog Hall effect and magnetic proximity sensors, with centered offset voltages and custom-programmed sensors. Visit us today to learn more!

sensorso.com

Hi

Thanks for the links, I've seen previously to the post.
Regarding the torque sensor it's only an hall sensor with a magnet that moves out of place, the value for a stand still position I think it's 84 regularly, being that mine as higher value of 94 what it could happen it's to make the motor rotate earlier...I guess! I think the problem would be if there wasn't any value or if it was to low for the controller to read!!
I don't know if there's a specific value on the software to trigger the motor?
I tried to find the controller diagram to see if I could identify the problem because it looks like there's no communication between torque sensor and motor...but it's strange since Vldc reads the values.

 

[xelder]

Thanks. I tried it, It keeps going to the regular setup menu,

"To access this menu, when powered on and "Odo" displayed at bottom left, press and hold "i"+"power" for 10 seconds, then press "i" to cycle through "Odo" "Trip" "Avg" "Time" then next press will show "te" then "te1""

Still not clever enough. Tried both VLDC5's I own, Maybe on a warmer day, when it's not 35F where the bikes are stored. It's just for info anyway, I have OSF on both motors and one can adjust the multipliers to get the desired pedal feel, providing that the torque sensor works.

I think this can help, try to press first the i button otherwise it will turn off the vldc!!

 

[Sturmey]

........... 84 regularly, being that mine as higher value of 94 what it could happen it's to make the motor rotate earlier...I guess!

.............. no communication between torque sensor and motor...

As regards your two points above, the TSDZ2 does a calibration test every time you power up (with your feet off the pedals) because due to its mechanics, it accepts that there is some tolerance or variation between different individual torque sensors and due to wear.. So it can tolerate some difference in the TE values as I presume what counts is the difference between the calibrated TE value and the instantaneous TE1 value.

The torque sensor receives its power and communicates to the controller via a set of coils/winding that act like a transformer. I have never dismantled one but it does look like something that may be subject to wear as one coil is rotating against the other stationary coil.

 

[Zambam]

Hi
The tsdz it's mounted on the bike that is on rollers (to train in house), I didn't bought the speed sensor, I didn't need at that time. Does this makes the motor to not rotate?

I think for example to use the hand throttle on the vldc 5 8 pin you need to have the brakes attached.

I just thought that every dc motor would need an h-bridge to rotate, but that's not truth, but what I mean it's the motor driver it's working.

I thought if you buy a TSDZ2 kit, it automatically comes with a speed sensor. You did not buy a kit?

I have read both: 1. A speed sensor is needed and 2: It is not needed for a TSDZ2 to work. Maybe you should try one to see if it will solve your problem?

So, your TSDZ2 is installed on a bike but it's mounted to a trainer indoors? Does the trainer provide enough resistance to the crank to simulate real riding? Have you tried riding the bike outdoors?

 

[xelder]

I thought if you buy a TSDZ2 kit, it automatically comes with a speed sensor. You did not buy a kit?

I have read both: 1. A speed sensor is needed and 2: It is not needed for a TSDZ2 to work. Maybe you should try one to see if it will solve your problem?

So, your TSDZ2 is installed on a bike but it's mounted to a trainer indoors? Does the trainer provide enough resistance to the crank to simulate real riding? Have you tried riding the bike outdoors?

Hi bought a refurbished one for a more complicated project, stupidity I didn't test it, that I've been developing on the last 3 years and at that point I didn't need a speed sensor because it's suppose to be everything wireless including the speed sensor.

I didn't test everything outside because I don't want to break what I've been doing that's expensive and wanted to test it in somehow controlled environment and that's why I bought this rollers that supposedly create a force of 500w which I think it's more than enough to make the motor to engage.

I'm gone buy a speed sensor to see if that's the issue, because after I want everything wireless and I have to buy a new old type controller for the OSF and I don't know where to yet.

After your question and the links from Sturmey I realise that the speed sensor myth be the issue or I hope so, some type of safety protection like the brakes!! I'm gone buy one and than I'll give feedback!!

Thanks for all the help and if someone knows better or realise that myth be other issue please give a feedback, because at this point it's not clear...

 

[xelder]

As regards your two points above, the TSDZ2 does a calibration test every time you power up (with your feet off the pedals) because due to its mechanics, it accepts that there is some tolerance or variation between different individual torque sensors and due to wear.. So it can tolerate some difference in the TE values as I presume what counts is the difference between the calibrated TE value and the instantaneous TE1 value.

The torque sensor receives its power and communicates to the controller via a set of coils/winding that act like a transformer. I have never dismantled one but it does look like something that may be subject to wear as one coil is rotating against the other stationary coil.

I've been carefully to let it calibrate and I agree there should be some type of tolerance.
I've dismantle great part of the motor because of my project and I damaged one coil on the torque sensor and bought a new coil to substitute. The torque sensor it's only an hall (probably magnetoresistive) with a magnet, when there's torque movement on the structure of the torque sensor (chain tension vs pedals) it makes the motor to engage, the coils work as some kind of "electric coil" were the movement between the coils create energy and the controler translate into cadence...well that's what I understood from my basic electronic know how.!!

 

[docw009]

I think this can help, try to press first the i button otherwise it will turn off the vldc!!

Thank you, Xelder! The difference is we start in "Trip" mode, not "ODO" mode. It's raised some issues.

Both my bikes show a TE of 168 and a TE1 of 0, The video says a TE of 168 indicates bad torque sensors, Bummer. Standing on the pedals brings TE1 to 80. TE doesn't change and is probably maxed out.

On the other hand, I am running both on OSF, no complaints on the conversions. Both OSF. One in hybrid mode. One in cadence. My wife couldn't be happier with hers, Mine does everything I need. I can't believe both sensors are defective. A mechanical adjustment night help.

Perhaps next Spring, I will look into that adjustment. The bikes run well with OSF. Might run better on the original firmware (they didn't) with better TE values.

 

[xelder]

Thank you, Xelder! The difference is we start in "Trip" mode, not "ODO" mode. It's raised some issues.

Both my bikes show a TE of 168 and a TE1 of 0, The video says a TE of 168 indicates bad torque sensors, Bummer. Standing on the pedals brings TE1 to 80. TE doesn't change and is probably maxed out.

On the other hand, I am running both on OSF, no complaints on the conversions. Both OSF. One in hybrid mode. One in cadence. My wife couldn't be happier with hers, Mine does everything I need. I can't believe both sensors are defective. A mechanical adjustment night help.

Perhaps next Spring, I will look into that adjustment. The bikes run well with OSF. Might run better on the original firmware (they didn't) with better TE values.

Good I could help! The next link it's about calibrating the torque sensor mechanical part:

Cheeers