TSDZ16 little teardown and manuals

[Kajman]

Hi, one guy here (thanks Tas) got his trial TSDZ16 and made little overview, I post photos here if anyone interested, as still little info about it is available:

 

[yantra yatra]

Any feedback on performance?
Some points to consider:
- whether they have overcome issues that ToSeven had (firmware, torque sensing, nylon gear, bearings, not such a great design for higher powered aftermarket controller, and limited longevity).
- whether it can run well with an aftermarket controller and torque sensing

 

[Kajman]

No idea yet, they are still new on market, and real sales juzst started.

 

[Matze_Senpaii]

it appears that there is one seller selling this motor on AliExpress, ships from poland . price 482€

 

[Kajman]

Not that bad, we will see how it works. People running test versions said it is powerfull, with some minor tech flaws. Most important for me is when open firmware is adapted for it. And if it will be adapted.

 

[raylo32]

What are the specs? Is this just an improved Z2/Z8 or is it bigger?

 

[Kajman]

Much bigger, even little bigger than bbshd. People say that it is about 25% stronger than tsdz8, but not many testimonials yet.

 

[raby]

it appears that there is one seller selling this motor on AliExpress, ships from poland . price 482€

I found another one from France selling for 454,95€
Link: https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005009384699089.html

Has anyone here bought this motor yet? Does it work with 52V battery packs like the TSDZ8?

Is the new and improved DFL11 display (upgrade from EKD01, I think?) have the same features and flexibility of the 860C display? They seem very similar now, it's a shame that there's no OSF for it yet. Hopefully in the future someone will crack it.

Speaking of which, is the controller the same, or does it use a different microprocessor from the TSDZ8 (XMC1302)?

 

[raby]

I found another one from France selling for 454,95€
Link: https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005009384699089.html

Has anyone here bought this motor yet? Does it work with 52V battery packs like the TSDZ8?

Is the new and improved DFL11 display (upgrade from EKD01, I think?) have the same features and flexibility of the 860C display? They seem very similar now, it's a shame that there's no OSF for it yet. Hopefully in the future someone will crack it.

Speaking of which, is the controller the same, or does it use a different microprocessor from the TSDZ8 (XMC1302)?

Just bought the TSDZ16, waiting for it to arrive
I'll plug it to my bench power supply before buying a battery to verify if the DFL11 display that comes with it natively supports 52 volt battery packs. There's no OSF for it for now, nor can I figure out what microprocessor does it use, so I'll not be modifying it for now.

 

[Kajman]

OSF for it will be most wanted soon

 

[Extreemator]

so bbshd with bbs02 core, very dumb idea for the factory. short stator, bad magnet placement and bad retention, weak shaft (although rotor is lighter which is only small improvement). not convenient and heavy double square shaft. didn't fix any of bbshd construction errors as well, such as bearing retention (that o ring is ridiculous joke blindly copied by people who don't know their own product). interesting if the last reduction gear fits bbshd.

 

[qwerkus]

so bbshd with bbs02 core, very dumb idea for the factory. short stator, bad magnet placement and bad retention, weak shaft (although rotor is lighter which is only small improvement). not convenient and heavy double square shaft. didn't fix any of bbshd construction errors as well, such as bearing retention (that o ring is ridiculous joke blindly copied by people who don't know their own product). interesting if the last reduction gear fits bbshd.

Not that dumb: justin showed years ago that the bbs02 had the better design; all that was needed for an improved motor was a thicker rotor and a larger heatsink (and maybe a torque sensor....). Seems someone at Tongsheng's paid attention...

 

[dliusc2]

Really curious how this motor compares to the BBSHD in power and robustness.

I have been using a BBSHD for work for a little while now after blowing up a BBS02 (peanut buttered the nylon gear). I regularly use my bike to lug somewhat heavy items up very steep hills (SF hills basically) and the BBS02 just wasn't up to the job and bit the dust in under 4,000 miles.

I am mainly looking for speed (time is money after all ) and reliability/robustness, the torque sensor is just a nice bonus.

On paper the TSDZ16 supposedly looks like the holy grail:

- Heavier/larger/more metal than the BBSHD == better cooling/robustness?
- Supposedly better designed internals than the BBSHD
- Cheap, like BBS02 price cheap
- Has a torque sensor

Only cons I can think of:

- Suffers from the same problem as all the other CANBUS motors (slow throttle response)

Really interested in seeing if this motor ends up being as robust/reliable as the BBSHD is claimed to be (I don't know firsthand actually, haven't had it long enough to gauge).

 

[Matze_Senpaii]

i though this motors are uart

 

[dliusc2]

i though this motors are uart

Actually, you are right, it is UART. I guess I just assumed it was CANBUS because most people use the EKD01 with it, but I guess they're using the UART variant of the display. I wonder if the EKD01 display is the thing causing the issues with delayed throttle response.

 

[Matze_Senpaii]

i could get the tsdz16 for 302€ currently on AliExpress with discount codes, but i havent seen many reviews. not sure if i should buy.. can i put osf from tsdz8 on the tsdz16 ?

 

[dliusc2]

i could get the tsdz16 for 302€ currently on AliExpress with discount codes, but i havent seen many reviews. not sure if i should buy.. can i put osf from tsdz8 on the tsdz16 ?

Yeah, it's a very good price for a 1,000 watt motor. It was only $300 USD on 11/11, but the price increased currently. I'm still a bit hesitant to buy it because I see on some Facebook groups that some people are shredding the nylon gear within 300 miles, but it does come with a 1 year warranty, so they will replace it.

My guess is that the Bafang engineers knew what they were doing and completely redesigned the BBSHD internals from the BBS02 for a reason. Probably the BBSHD internal design is more capable of handling the stress of the increased power and designed for more duty cycles/robustness while losing out on some efficiency from the BBS02 design.

Kind of makes sense as I remember reading some Bafang design docs that stated the BBSHD was somewhere around 80% efficient, whereas the BBS02 was around 85% or something in that range.

 

[dliusc2]

The more I'm seeing, the less I'm regretting not buying @ $300.

 

[1boris]

so bbshd with bbs02 core, very dumb idea for the factory. short stator, bad magnet placement and bad retention, weak shaft (although rotor is lighter which is only small improvement). not convenient and heavy double square shaft. didn't fix any of bbshd construction errors as well, such as bearing retention (that o ring is ridiculous joke blindly copied by people who don't know their own product). interesting if the last reduction gear fits bbshd.

Justin said the bbshd was an disapointment because of the rotor magnets and wanted the rotor to be like the bbs02, but same size as bbshd.Exactly like this tsdz16 has.So I think it is very good.A bigger stronger bbs02 with lots of coppar and propably bigger gear ratio also which is even better for overheating and torque.Whats not to like?

 

[phobos]

Whats not to like?

The nylon gear seems to be the weakest link. It really needs a PEEK gear, and I’m sure someone will start producing them eventually.
It’s also lacking aftermarket chainring options with the proper offset, which will hopefully improve over time.

 

[dliusc2]

The nylon gear seems to be the weakest link. It really needs a PEEK gear, and I’m sure someone will start producing them eventually.
It’s also lacking aftermarket chainring options with the proper offset, which will hopefully improve over time.

It's strange that the BBSHD doesn't have this problem at similar power outputs (or even when overvolted for that matter). I wonder if it's caused by design differences or faulty/defective material.

I wish someone would do a side by side teardown and comparison with the BBSHD.

It's kind of funny because it seems like the TSDZ8 ripped off the BBSHD design, whereas the TSDZ16 ripped off the BBS02 design.

 

[dliusc2]

The nylon gear seems to be the weakest link. It really needs a PEEK gear, and I’m sure someone will start producing them eventually.
It’s also lacking aftermarket chainring options with the proper offset, which will hopefully improve over time.

The Chinese companies really need to just start manufacturing and shipping them with PEEK gears. Cannot even find PEEK gears for a reasonable price for the BBSHD much less the TSDZ16. Cheapest you can buy one for currently is $100 + shipping, which is too much in my opinion for a plastic gear. Heck, they could just charge $50 extra for an upgrade/boosted version of their motors with PEEK gears and I'm sure they'll still make a killing with how efficient and cheap their manufacturing is.

 

[kanoni15]

The more I'm seeing, the less I'm regretting not buying @ $300.

What happened here?

 

[dliusc2]

What happened here?

Nylon gear got shredded after about 300 miles.

 

[Julian.l]

Is an aftermarket chainring needed with this model?