TSDZ2 with hubgears

[PRZ]

Hello to all, I own a TSDZ2 with board ‘2020’ installed with a Hubgear Shimano Nexus 8 and I intend to buy another TSDZ2 installed with a hubgear Shimano Nexus 7.

Hub gears cannot be shifted under load. I have 15 years practice of hubgears so I am used to release pressure when shifting.

Under high torque, the Nexus 8 simply does not shift and when you release the torque, it finally shifts with atrocious noise which make you suffer along the hubgear.

Unfortunately, the original board ‘2020’ version of the TSDZ2 (bought in Germany, assumed to be V2, 6 pins) have a very long delay (maybe 2 or 3 seconds) between the pedal torque release and the motor torque shutdown. This is too long to be easily manageable.

There was a shift sensor detector for the TSDZ2 which was adapted from the one for the Bafang with TSDZ2 plugs, sold by Okfeet. Unfortunately it was only available for 8 pins board (no throttle) and not for 6 pins boards and is yet no longer available.

After unconclusive exchanges with my reseller (Enerprof in Germany) I anyway bought a control board adapted for coaster-brake motor (while my motor is a ‘freewheel’ motor). Enerprof are among the few resellers (maybe the only one) which sells boards and motors adaptad for coaster-brakes (6 pins only boards).

This worked as with this board there is no longer any significant delay between the pedal torque release and the motor torque stop.

Though with this new board I did lost all the ‘smoothing’ of the former board, which was smoothing my irregular pedal torque. This is less comfortable but not an option. Also, I think this irregular torque aggravate the control board overheating problem.

I am interested to buy a new TSDZ2 motor but as I experienced frequent overheating of the control board while climbing and/or hot temperature, I may choose to use an OSF programmed board to alleviate the problem (probably alongside with cooling kit as sold by polish company ebikestuff.eu).


So I have a few questions :

1/ On the OSF, what is the default delay between the pedal torque release and motor stop ? Is it adjustable with the SW102 panel (or with another panel) ? Does someone have experience with OSF and hubgears ?

2/ Does someone know if the ‘2023’ original version of the board (V2 version ?), the delay problem is still existing?

3/ Can we find a gear shift sensor with plugs adapted for the TSDZ2 sensors? Some resellers sells gear shift sensor pretending they are adapted to the TSDZ2 but the plugs are the Bafang plugs, so this won't work.

4/ I’ve read somewhere that with TSDZ2 with SW-102 panel, the plugs are Bafang plugs, so can we adapt the bafang shift sensor?

I will much prefer a software solution than adding a failure prone sensor.

There is a thread on this site about installation on the TSDZ2 of a gear shift sensor:
Gear Shift Sensor for Tongsheng TSDZ2

 

[dgc]

What I have done a number of times is to buy a spare display cable and splice a suitable cable with connector into the display cable for hydraulic brake sensors which would be no different to using this spliced cable for a change sensor as I have been using 860C and Enerpower DZ41 displays. Anyway look here and as I have make up a cable, Gear Shift Sensor for Tongsheng TSDZ2

 

[neptronix]

This is why i like external, highly programmable controllers for basically everything.
I've yet to see a factory tune on any controller that i like.

You could program something like a vesc to have 0 startup and 0 throttle off delay, then you don't really need a gear sensor unless you insist on absolute safety.

I think we have some open source software available on this forum for your controller that might be able to reduce this delay. May not need a different controller.

 

[dgc]

When I change gear I naturally take the pressure off the pedals momentarily, any way have a look on Facebook at this:-
"They are perfect. I have over 4000 trouble free miles on my 7 speed nexus pulling a heavy steel Dutch bike. We worry WAY too much about the power in these motors. I routinely generate more than 40nm's of torque with my arms and a wrench. Hill climbing racers can generate over 1400 watts for 90min.'s at a shot and way over 200nm's of torque. I have never even seen a broken internal hub and for sure they are more rugged than a derailleur." and this "
I'm using a Rohloff hub with a TSDZ2 and it's working very well. We also have a Bafang drive on our tandem with Rohloff. They both work fine but I prefer the Tongsheng as the torque sensor allows you to ease off on the pedals and change gear while the Bafang needs a gear sensor fitted or you have to touch the brakes to operate the gears."

 

[Jodel]

I have my TSDZ2B on a tandem with a Rohloff hub. It takes a bit more effort to co-ordinate the shifts with the tandem 'stoker', but it does work quite well most of the time. The torque sensing of the TSDZ2B does allow you to gently ease off the power for the Rohloff to make gear-shifts. I can imagine a cadence sensing Bafang would be more difficult without a gear change sensor or dabbing the brake.

 

[PRZ]

Looking on the tsdz2 OSF programming, it does exist a parameter called 'motor deceleration' expressed in %. Setting this parameter to 100% may play on the motor deceleration when you lighten load but how does this work when the torque suddenly goes down near 0 ? What is the delay in seconds for motor stopping assistance? On the Bafang programming, there is a parameter for stopping power when releasing rotation expressed in milliseconds, which seems easier to understand. I abandoned the idea of replacing my motor (I bought another electric bike) but while its mileage is significant (12 000 km ~ 7500 miles) I still want to improve my existing tsdz2. New tsdz8 is not an option for many reasons: Way too high torque for hub gear, way too high q-factor and higher weight and same problem with no available parameter for torque delay.

To answer above comment about cable splitting to install gear sensor, this does only work for 8 pins boards, not for 6 pins. My understanding is that the 8 pins plugs/cables does include 5V supply line not present on 6 pins cables, and this 5v is required by the speed sensor. I may change the board for a 8 pin one, but this seems a bit hazardous to me.

 

[Jodel]

On my TSDZ2B I have the motor deceleration parameter set to 100%. I haven't measured the time delay exactly, but I'd guess that the motor takes less than one second to react when you stop pedaling. Again, I haven't measured it, but I don't think there is much difference between the default setting of 35% and the 100% setting. There is a slight change, but not particularly obvious. That said, the motor does stop quickly enough anyway when you stop pedaling.

I have brake cut-outs fitted to my motor and I used to just touch the brake lever very lightly when shifting gears to cut the motor power, but I found this was not really required - the motor seems to react fast enough on its own.