Tuning the BBS-HD ??

[mbackc@gmail.com]

Hi folks...

I´m considering the possibilities of tuning the BBS-HD, by increasing the max current in the setup of the controller.

Im fully aware that there are certain risks connected to this. I´m used to short maintenance schedules on motocross bikes - where the lifetime on a piston is 10-20 hours as an example.

Increasing the current limit from 30amps would lead to increased stress on the nylon gear and possibly on the controller itself. I´m aware that 65 amps with an external controller have been tested with bad results: http://electricbike-blog.com/2016/03/01/my-bbshd-was-evil-and-it-deserved-to-die-a-horrible-death/

But would it maybe be possible to increase to a level in between 30 amp and 65 amps - without ending up with a disaster - if the unit is properly maintained ? A fixed schedule on nylon gear replacement could be introduced - based on experience.

The question is whether anyone have done it ? Luna cycles states that their BBS-HD is "hot rod programmed" - whatever that means...

How much more current would the internal controller be able to handle ?? Any ideas ?

Thanks in advance.

Michael - Copenhagen

 

[WoodlandHills]

Hot rod programming means the max amps are set to 30 instead of 25 as delivered from China.

I wonder how much it would cost to have a run of Teflon coated steel gears made? There might be a market for upgraded gears if high power external controllers for the BBSHD become popular.

 

[gman1971]

65 amps will most likely result in stripped gears every time you hit the throttle and probably melted internal controller. So, no, if you want 65 amps get something else, something meant to take the power.

G.

 

[WoodlandHills]

The problem with current hopped up BBSHDs is that they use an external controller which eliminates one of the best features of the HD: it's clean installation. Adding an external controller, no matter how small, makes the bike into a "science project" IMHO and removes most of its appeal. I think an HD with a 40/45 amp replacement internal controller and a steel gear would be a significant improvement and would still have a reasonable service life. Modern coatings combined with the correct grease will allow metal to metal contact with minimal wear and only a slight increase in noise from the geartrain. This is something Bafang could do as the logical next development of the BBSHD just as they sold several power levels of the BBS0x series. A 50% power increase is much more likely than a 100% one

 

[mbackc@gmail.com]

Thanks for the replies...

65 amp is NOT what I want - as this has already been tested with bad results.

What I want to know is whether the current limit can be increased further than the 30 amp - to a level around 40 or 45.

Luna Cycles is currently testing the Bafang with 50 amp on an external controller with good results so far:

https://www.electricbike.com/project-x-building-the-baddest-and-fastest-3000w-bbshd-ebike-ever/

My question is: How far can we go without adding an external controller - to maintain the clean and simple look ? ?

Have anyone tried to exceed the 30 amp current limit in the stock controller ??

 

[gman1971]

I wouldn't let the motor hit 300F, magnets lose strength permanently at much lower temps than those; personally I am already concerned when my Cyclone is 30F over ambient (like 80F) (running at 1500-2000 watts sustained) , if mine was to hit a temp of 300F I would be rethinking my entire design as I've probably done something wrong... perhaps if I had deep pockets and just for fun just, test to destruction, then I might try... but if you want more watts reliably, get something else or live with it as is.

G.

 

[waynebergman]

As far as I know at this point no one has figured out how to re program the stock controller with more than 30 amps. Using a program cable and software that is available so far the max is 30 amps.

 

[WoodlandHills]

That means there is a market for higher power controllers that are a bolt on and are compatible with Bafang displays. Imagine how many people would want to upgrade their BBSHDs after a few months to get another 15 or 20 amps? I know I would!

 

[bbq870]

is there a way to reprogram THIS controller? can it be done by somebody from the forum?

 

[mbackc@gmail.com]

That means there is a market for higher power controllers that are a bolt on and are compatible with Bafang displays. Imagine how many people would want to upgrade their BBSHDs after a few months to get another 15 or 20 amps? I know I would!

Exactly ! Wish that Lunacycle or someone else would start to put together a package for this purpose...

 

[mbackc@gmail.com]

is there a way to reprogram THIS controller? can it be done by somebody from the forum?

That´s exactly the point of this thread ,0) What are the limitations for exceeding the 30 Amp ? There must be a reason that Luna Cycle use an external controller to run 50Amps on the Bafang BBS-HD here: https://www.electricbike.com/project-x-building-the-baddest-and-fastest-3000w-bbshd-ebike-ever/

 

[WoodlandHills]

I think in the case of the Luna build that it was a quick and dirty, proof of concept rather than an actual product up to their high quality standards. Someone had to be first to see just what the BBSHD could do with a state of the art controller and Eric stepped up to show the way.

Now the challenge is to find a way to either hack the Bafang software or build an internal controller with more power.

 

[mbackc@gmail.com]

I think in the case of the Luna build that it was a quick and dirty, proof of concept rather than an actual product up to their high quality standards. Someone had to be first to see just what the BBSHD could do with a state of the art controller and Eric stepped up to show the way.

Now the challenge is to find a way to either hack the Bafang software or build an internal controller with more power.

Now thats the spirit ! Agree ,0)

 

[gman1971]

I think in the case of the Luna build that it was a quick and dirty, proof of concept rather than an actual product up to their high quality standards. Someone had to be first to see just what the BBSHD could do with a state of the art controller and Eric stepped up to show the way.

Now the challenge is to find a way to either hack the Bafang software or build an internal controller with more power.

I wouldn't call getting the motor temps up to 300F something along the lines of a "proof of concept"...

One of the reasons of why I am running a Cyclone 3000W is so I don't have to baby the dang thing ever again (learn my lesson with the GNG which maxed out at 22 amps), I just don't watch for anything, really, including the "going easy on the gas" BS, etc, on any gear... I just mash the gas and the bike just gets up to 30mph in around 4 or 5 seconds; and I can pretty much do that regardless of whatever gear I am, or if I am on an uphill, downhill, etc: It never overheats, even when running @ peak 50 amps the controller allows through it. I climb 12% grade hills at 28 mph @ 2000 watts sustained and the motor just barely gets 30C above ambient temp.

G.

 

[mbackc@gmail.com]

I´ve been in contact with Luna Cycle and something very exiting is brewing there at the moment - based on their 50 Amp testing...

They told me to stay tuned for updates....

 

[bbq870]

is there a way to reprogram THIS controller? can it be done by somebody from the forum?

That´s exactly the point of this thread ,0) What are the limitations for exceeding the 30 Amp ? There must be a reason that Luna Cycle use an external controller to run 50Amps on the Bafang BBS-HD here: https://www.electricbike.com/project-x-building-the-baddest-and-fastest-3000w-bbshd-ebike-ever/

the limitations for exceeding 30Amps is the BBSHD square wave controller. I guess it will be too inefficient (heat) above 30A.
that's why Luna Cycle used the Adaptto Mini-E, a sine wave controller, which can be configured to the specs of the BBSHD motor to run it higher efficiency. (less heat)

the quick and dirty approach from luna was obviously not so "dirty", as they seem to go in the right direction.
I guess the original controller so far can just be overvolted.

 

[Chalo]

The BBSHD has already been "tuned" by the manufacturer. It's more or less reliable, well designed to attach to a bicycle, and generally harmonious with a bicycle. It works intuitively, quietly, and swiftly. As furnished, it's the best e-bike system I've had the opportunity to try out.

Trying to get it to develop 4hp is both bad for the BBSHD and bad for the bike. Call that tuning if you like, but I call it stupid. What about actual engineering don't you guys get? (I mean, other than all of it.).

 

[thewmatusmoloki]

Your ultra dry and razor sharp, bleeding edge, British type sarcasm gets the real point out in the open in just one post, yet again.

Nice one Chalo, everytime I read the above post, I keep hearing it in John Cleese's voice, LOL.

Keep up the good fight.

 

[Dogboy1200]

I´ve been in contact with Luna Cycle and something very exiting is brewing there at the moment - based on their 50 Amp testing...

They told me to stay tuned for updates....

Now that' exactly what I wanted to hear!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gman1971]

The BBSHD has already been "tuned" by the manufacturer. It's more or less reliable, well designed to attach to a bicycle, and generally harmonious with a bicycle. It works intuitively, quietly, and swiftly. As furnished, it's the best e-bike system I've had the opportunity to try out.

Trying to get it to develop 4hp is both bad for the BBSHD and bad for the bike. Call that tuning if you like, but I call it stupid. What about actual engineering don't you guys get? (I mean, other than all of it.).

Wow, that is a simple, yet effective way to put it...

G.

 

[WoodlandHills]

The BBSHD has already been "tuned" by the manufacturer. It's more or less reliable, well designed to attach to a bicycle, and generally harmonious with a bicycle. It works intuitively, quietly, and swiftly. As furnished, it's the best e-bike system I've had the opportunity to try out.

Trying to get it to develop 4hp is both bad for the BBSHD and bad for the bike. Call that tuning if you like, but I call it stupid. What about actual engineering don't you guys get? (I mean, other than all of it.).

How about the part where manufacturers leave overhead in their designs to prompte reliability and allow low warranty costs and others trade that overhead for more power. I know it is beyond your range of knowledge as it defers to an internal combustion engine, but a company called GM once designed a v-8 motor that became known as the small block Chevy or SBC. By the time the crosstalk between the factory and the hotrodders was over the motor made more than 3 times the original hp and commensurate torque and had a full factory warranty. So I have to ask you: what part of actual engineering don't YOU get?

Since a few people proposed running 70 amps through a BBSHD, which you disapprove of, thus anyone wanting to run 40/45 through it is exactly the same and will have exactly the same results. With that sort of attitude we would all still be riding wooden wheeled bone shakers over cobblestones: once some clown declares that the current State of the Art is now the Status Quo all progress stops.

BTW, when we lived in Summerland just up the street from Cleeses beach house we met him a few times at charity events and while it was a real thrill for a Python fan and he was quite droll, he really has turned into a reactionary old fart IMHO

 

[gman1971]

I am not sure if you read the "Luna Cycle" BBSHD link... but let me outline this out loud: 300F in an permanent magnet electric motor won't fly for very long. Over volting the thing won't fly either, b/c you'll strip the gear if you mash it too much... or you think torque is just for a second when you accelerate then its just magic what propels you?

G.

The BBSHD has already been "tuned" by the manufacturer. It's more or less reliable, well designed to attach to a bicycle, and generally harmonious with a bicycle. It works intuitively, quietly, and swiftly. As furnished, it's the best e-bike system I've had the opportunity to try out.

Trying to get it to develop 4hp is both bad for the BBSHD and bad for the bike. Call that tuning if you like, but I call it stupid. What about actual engineering don't you guys get? (I mean, other than all of it.).

How about the part where manufacturers leave overhead in their designs to prompte reliability and allow low warranty costs and others trade that overhead for more power. I know it is beyond your range of knowledge as it defers to an internal combustion engine, but a company called GM once designed a v-8 motor that became known as the small block Chevy or SBC. By the time the crosstalk between the factory and the hotrodders was over the motor made more than 3 times the original hp and commensurate torque and had a full factory warranty. So I have to ask you: what part of actual engineering don't YOU get?

Since a few people proposed running 70 amps through a BBSHD, which you disapprove of, thus anyone wanting to run 40/45 through it is exactly the same and will have exactly the same results. With that sort of attitude we would all still be riding wooden wheeled bone shakers over cobblestones: once some clown declares that the current State of the Art is now the Status Quo all progress stops.

BTW, when we lived in Summerland just up the street from Cleeses beach house we met him a few times at charity events and while it was a real thrill for a Python fan and he was quite droll, he really has turned into a reactionary old fart IMHO

 

[Dogboy1200]

I agree that 50 amps and 300F may be a bit much. I think 40 is the magic number for reliability of the HD and a bicycle drivetrian. For me the perfect upgrade would be 40 amps with no display just an on/off switch and throttle only.

 

[mbackc@gmail.com]

Wow things are getting ugly in here - I'm out!

Let's see the results of the tests currently going on at Luna cycles and take it from there !

 

[WoodlandHills]

I am not sure if you read the "Luna Cycle" BBSHD link... but let me outline this out loud: 300F in an permanent magnet electric motor won't fly for very long. Over volting the thing won't fly either, b/c you'll strip the gear if you mash it too much... or you think torque is just for a second when you accelerate then its just magic what propels you?

G.

The BBSHD has already been "tuned" by the manufacturer. It's more or less reliable, well designed to attach to a bicycle, and generally harmonious with a bicycle. It works intuitively, quietly, and swiftly. As furnished, it's the best e-bike system I've had the opportunity to try out.

Trying to get it to develop 4hp is both bad for the BBSHD and bad for the bike. Call that tuning if you like, but I call it stupid. What about actual engineering don't you guys get? (I mean, other than all of it.).

How about the part where manufacturers leave overhead in their designs to prompte reliability and allow low warranty costs and others trade that overhead for more power. I know it is beyond your range of knowledge as it defers to an internal combustion engine, but a company called GM once designed a v-8 motor that became known as the small block Chevy or SBC. By the time the crosstalk between the factory and the hotrodders was over the motor made more than 3 times the original hp and commensurate torque and had a full factory warranty. So I have to ask you: what part of actual engineering don't YOU get?

Since a few people proposed running 70 amps through a BBSHD, which you disapprove of, thus anyone wanting to run 40/45 through it is exactly the same and will have exactly the same results. With that sort of attitude we would all still be riding wooden wheeled bone shakers over cobblestones: once some clown declares that the current State of the Art is now the Status Quo all progress stops.

BTW, when we lived in Summerland just up the street from Cleeses beach house we met him a few times at charity events and while it was a real thrill for a Python fan and he was quite droll, he really has turned into a reactionary old fart IMHO

I think a moly coated steel gear will solve the torque issue and I have never advocated running over 45 amps through the BBSHD although it would be great if it was able to live at elevated power levels.

Until you can give me a clear simple explanation of what electricity is, I'll continue to believe it's Sheer Freakin' Magic...... :lol: