Turnigy CA120-70 8600W Brushless Outrunner (100c eq)

[teamtestbot]

teamtestbot: So the shaft is 12mm? not 10mm, like the spec's say?

Also, what esc are you testing it with?

Also please upload some pics, if you have any...

The part that sticks out of the front is 10mm. The rear, however, is a 12mm. I have yet to take the motor completely apart, but I guess at some point it reduces.

I threw it on a 100A Turnigy controller that I had sitting around.

 

[teamtestbot]

Hmmm, on further inspection (i.e. filing a small part of the can, like keying the paint on a brand new car, and also using a small magnet to test portions of the can) I'll retract what I said about the rotor. It is indeed steel. I was mistaken because all the motors I've built had very thick cans compared to the magnet thickness and thus contained the flux better.

Regardless, that's substantial flux leakage coming out of the motor... great for tripping Hall sensors externally, but my statement that the Kv can be dropped more if you add another layer of steel around the rotor stands.

 

[HumboldtRc]

teamtestbot: So the shaft is 12mm? not 10mm, like the spec's say?

Also, what esc are you testing it with?

Also please upload some pics, if you have any...

The part that sticks out of the front is 10mm. The rear, however, is a 12mm. I have yet to take the motor completely apart, but I guess at some point it reduces.

I threw it on a 100A Turnigy controller that I had sitting around.

Sweet, looks great.

I can't wait for a 70V 250A controller for it, to really see its potential....

Thanks for the shaft size info, it's nice to know they used a 12mm shaft for it (through the motor and bearings)
When i noticed the 10mm spec, i was confused, and wondering why they would make it smaller...

 

[Timma2500]

Cool it arrived on Wednesday In the top photo you can see where the shaft goes from 12mm down to 10mm where the prop mount normally resides
As seen in the pics above its about 73mm long, 2 or 3mm short of an Astro 8150.



Paul

 

[HumboldtRc]

Cool it arrived on Wednesday In the top photo you can see where the shaft goes from 12mm down to 10mm where the prop mount normally resides
As seen in the pics above its about 73mm long, 2 or 3mm short of an Astro 8150.


Paul

How is the hub held on? by nuts? i see the bolts sticking out of the can..... can i see a pic of the prop drive hub.... how it goes on the studs....

Edit: Do you stick a allen wrench through the holes in the stator or something like that...? to get to the bolts holding the prop adapter on...

 

[Arlo1]

So...... Again its a controler that holds us up?

 

[liveforphysics]

So...... Again its a controler that holds us up?

One little teaser picture of the motor driving solution. Just working on packaging everything to fit still. I've either gotta cut down on cap (something I HATE to do for a controller faced with these huge current spikes/ripple voltage), or come up with a more clever buss layout that doesn't make the cap useless due to excessive inductive path distance. It's all comming together though. Bigger than I wanted, but hey, nothing else is in the >40-50kw range in close to this size, so I guess I'm still ahead of the curve, just not as ahead as I wanted to be.

 

[liveforphysics]

The line-up there is of course, 12-fet, 24-fet, My Controller, Kelly controller.

And of course this is just a mock-up to show the sizes, that case is empty in that pic, the terminals just resting on a fet. Only Methods and BigMoose have pics of the guts so far. Getting the 3-shunts all custom built and layed out has been an unexpectedly large PITA on top of the capacitor space/fitment issues. Nothing that isn't solvable though.

Then in front, you see an RC controller (a type of junk), and one of the FETs used in this monster controller. Yes, each FET is about 3x the volume and weight as the entire RC controller. This is industrial motor controller grade stuff designed from the ground up around driving extremely difficult to drive loads like these motors.

 

[liveforphysics]

FET package reality check.


This is a TO-220 package FET (the fet package used in >99.9% of all ebike controllers because it's dirt cheap), sitting with a Y3-LI (what my controller uses) FET package.

 

[Timma2500]

How is the hub held on? by nuts? i see the bolts sticking out of the can..... can i see a pic of the prop drive hub.... how it goes on the studs....

Yep the hub is held on with what i think are m4 allen screws from the inside of the can into the threaded prop hub. You can unscrew them through the stator holes but the heads are too large to pull the screws through damnit lol.

This is a TO-220 package FET (the fet package used in >99.9% of all ebike controllers because it's dirt cheap), sitting with a Y3-LI (what my controller uses) FET package.

Holy huge fet day batman, that looks beefy! Chalk and cheese really when you compare the two

Looks great Luke!



Paul

 

[HumboldtRc]

Yep the hub is held on with what i think are m4 allen screws from the inside of the can into the threaded prop hub. You can unscrew them through the stator holes but the heads are too large to pull the screws through damnit lol.

Paul

Nice, that sucks, lol, looks great. I can't wait to get my own...

On hobbyking it says "Equivalent: 110cc Twin Gas Engine (20hp+)" which is funny because they stated only 8600 watts, which would only be 11hp+, contradicting info
funny.... :?

To everyone who has one in hand, please post you ideas and projects, that you are using them for, thanks
(e.g. controller, batteries, vehicle, etc. for your build, and any pics )

 

[Thud]

deliverd this morning.....

big plans to reconfigure this toy...
I will start a thread of the proposed changes & possible multi controller options to make this hog as tame as a cougar. 8)

 

[liveforphysics]

Looking good Thud.

Hook up your charger to a phase leg on 10Amp wire cut mode, and get a precision mV meter on the phase legs and see what what voltage it reads across the coil. Then we can get an idea of actual resistance on this beast. I'm hoping the HK spec is incorrect.

 

[Thud]

I will do that straight away when I get home tonight. & post it here.

 

[liveforphysics]

I will do that straight away when I get home tonight. & post it here.

Thanks buddy!

 

[Thud]

Here is the best I can determin:
12.5 volts on the Icharger 1010-
1 halogen bulb to generate some current placed in the neg. line

drawing 4.1 amps @12.5v generates a volt reading of .020 across the coils.

I couldn't get the i charger to start without the bulb...I had every resiter I had in line for a .3amp out put.

do the math & post it up

 

[liveforphysics]

Shit. That's 4.9mOhm. This thing is going to have no inductance to go with it either. lol No inductance, no resistance, it's like a dream for making killer power output, and a huge headache for a controller. lol.

 

[Thud]

So whch turn in this cloverleaf to explore 1st.

Go straight & add inductors on the phase wires & take the efficancy hit?

Turn right & add a horstman clutch & never load the thing to 15 amps below 1200rpm's?

Turn left & rewind it into a controllable wye connected pussycat & volt the hell out of it? (sounds hub like to me)

Pull up & snap roll into a lomcevek.....& attemp to use 2 18 fet controllers to spin this bear trap to 10k?

Change the pole count to 32 (or 16) & wind it straight ABC...that will get the inductanc up.

Or wait patently for the uber techs to make the fabled monster controller..........yea rIght, If i had patients like that I'd be a doctor!

any dares on which road to start?
Any ideas wich would be the most forging on my poor 4110's......or my voltage limited 3006's
Luke I automaticly take 2 points off you suggestion's due to your laten pyromanic tendancies

but seriously.....what advice can any one give an electard like me who has a need to spin this motor.....buku hard,loong tyyme..

 

[etard]

Dual controllers!!!!! Go Thud Go!!!! Direct Drive Monster Sprocket on 24's WOOT WOOT!!!

 

[liveforphysics]

You have some crazy mechanical skills, and a good kart clutch setup that grabs around 2-3krpm would be really handy for the controller.

A couple inductors would be a life saver too.

 

[olaf-lampe]

I got mine too today,
looks much better than the rest of the hxt motors. Has a NSK skirt bearing.
I tested it with a 100A Sentilon HV controller and a 13.8V powersupply.
I was pleased how smooth the controller started the motor. No problem at all.
Something around 10A no load current made me hope to have a winner. The motor is running very silent compared to my hxt 80-85 ( which has a wobbling shaft )
Then I hooked up my 12s Lipo battery and the calm giant turned into a screaming monster
22A no load current and a sound ...like ultrasonic. ( and I used rubberfoot as dampers)
The wattsUp showed 1.5kW max power only from accelerating the motor in 'very soft' mode and almost 1kW cont. powerloss.
This motor is definetly not made for sunday afternoon cruising

I see what I can do with the phase wires and halls, then hook it up to my sevcon millipaq.
-Olaf, with the EV grin

 

[Thud]

10 amp no load?!...that is a power hog. I haven't had time to spin mine up yet. I will try to get some comaprisons posted later this evening.

 

[liveforphysics]

Damn. This 22amp no load is such a not good thing. They have something wrong. I'm hopeing its not the thickness of the lams, or its not going to be fixable.

I don't know why mine hasn't arrived yet... but somebody needs to get a no load reading with the skirt bearing out.

Then if anyone has a low-range precision LCR meter (or access to one), knowing the inductance would be great for figuring out where we're at on driving this guy.

 

[Biff]

As I calculated on the bottom of page 5, the no-load loss doesn't surprise me.

With the 12S (I assume lithium 3.6V/cell) and a kv of 140, that would put it spinning at around 6000RPM.

I estimated at 8000 RPM would give 1.6kW core loss on page 5.. so at 6000RPM it would be about 900W of core loss since core loss is closely related to the square of the frequency.

calculaltion = 1600 * 6000^2 / 8000^2 = 900 Watts

If you could plot no-load power vs RPM that should give you a good idea of what the core loss is and how it changes with frequency. If you are able to estimate the the amount of heat you can safely remove from the system, you could figure out the optimal RPM you would want to operate this thing, then rewind it appropriatly so that the voltage is more suitable for your controller at the RPM you calculated. I would bet that you wouldn't want to spin this thing faster than 4000RPM so that you could have a total power loss (or heat production) of around 1kW during continuous operation.

-ryan

 

[olaf-lampe]

There's hope for you Luke,
I remember that the skirt bearing was the first thing that got warm at 13.8V 10A. But it's already from NSK. I don't know how much better can it get?

@Biff
I conclude that a low voltage/high current application would be best then? Rewind the beast with a low turn count and thicker strands and pump some 300-400Amps through it.

-Olaf