Ultracap Bike

E=IR said:
Do you know how they make the caps? Are there layers of plastic and foil?

Word on the street is that they have foil current collectors with a bunch of acetonitrile-soaked, pourus, activated carbon on top as each electrode. Those layers are separated by something with good dielectric strength (probably a plastic or a crosslinked dielectric polymer, like you suggest). You can find a few diagrams online, but the stuff people are really working on at the moment is likely a trade secret.

Paul: Do they make bike-sized treadmills?! :D
 
JCG said:
Paul: Do they make bike-sized treadmills?! :D
Training rollers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_rollers
 
JCG said:
I would love to hear other NC users share their stories, though. Good luck with your torque arms, Larry! I hope you have success in Round 1 (not 6, like me :D )

I have a NC front hub as well. I took it off in favor of the rear hub for higher speed, but when I used it my front forks would shake whenever I accelerated without a torque arm. I tried to use the ampedbikes torque arm, but it didn't fit... I ended up using a torque arm from hi-powercycles.com and it made the shakiness go away.I had no problems for over 200 miles @ 48v until I got tired of going so slow and put on the rear hub instead. I think they are both the same speed now though from ampedbikes(slow)
 
Well I'd say it 's time for an update. I mentioned in an earlier comment that I was distrubed by the diving board-type of effect I was getting with my rear rack mounting of the capacitor and controller, not to mention that it wasn't the most secure setup if I parked the bike and walked away from it. After trying to make a secure sheet metal shell around the rack that was lockable and had rear access (which also scared me since the sheet metal was close to the cap leads :shock:), I finally took Dennis' advice from his first comment in this thread and mounted everything in a trailer! I decided on a two-tire trailer for a bit more side-to-side stability. Here's a picture that shows the bike against a beautiful backdrop of junk in the lab where I've been working all this time. It was clean back in December...

bike_with_trailer.jpg


Here's a better look at the front end. All of the controls are still in place, brake twist throttle, brake button switch, CA, thumb throttle from L to R. I cleaned up the wiring a good bit and waterproofed what I could.

front_end.jpg


And here's the back end. I put a large black plasitc tube to cover the trailer arm, and hid the three wires under it (motor phase power (3 conductors, AWG14), hall sensors (5 conductors, AWG18), and control wire (12 conductors, AWG22)].

back_end.jpg


Now for a look under the trailer cover. I have a large waterproof "Fibox" (made of tough plastic) with a lockable cover. It holds most of the wire mess and the cap, controller, shunt resistor, and a terminal block. I can see through the cover when it's locked to check the controller for any error signals (LED-based) without unlocking it. The Fibox is mounted directly onto the plastic trailer bottom.

trailer_inside.jpg


A clearer view inside the Fibox with the cover unlocked and raised. You can see the gasketing edge around the outside of the lid's groove and also the switch I can use to power both the controller and Cycle Analyst on and off. With both of them off, the capacitor stays nice and charged - holds its voltage level very well overnight. Also in this configuration, I have easy access to the programming port (serial) on the Kelly Controller.

fibox_inside.jpg


The terminal block is hidden behind the capacitor on the left. Here's a peek at it:

terminal_20.jpg


It's kind of a monster, 20 terminals with 0.44" spacing. I hope to not be playing around with it much at all. It took too long to figure out where to wire everything in the first place!

terminal_wiring.jpg


I guess the best part is that everything is detachable. At the place where the trailer connects to the rear hub hitch, I have plugs for all 5 of my device sets: brake wiring assembly (switch and twist brake), hall sensors, motor phases, throttle, and Cycle Analyst; I can unplug them all and take off the trailer and just ride the bike like I used to.

There IS room in this trailer for more stuff if I don't use the Fibox. Connecting three 48 V caps in parallel is not out of the question, nor is adding a 48 V battery for parallel connection with a single cap module. Riding with the trailer is taking some getting used to; you can kind of feel it push and pull at you when you are accelerating or decelerating, or taking a curve.

The weather has got to warm up soon, then we can take to the streets with some students and get some better data. I hope I'll have some Cycle Analyst-based data acquisition by then... logging V, A, and speed is going to be a must for my reports. Thanks to all here for helping this project along - especially Dennis for pointing me to the NineContinent motor (which has been great despite spinout issues), Paul and Miles for discussions on regen, and methods for some very critical assistance with the Kelly Controller.
 
"The Long Ride Home"

Join me if you will for an evening ride through the busy streets of the US capital. The camera's mic picked up a strong signal from the motor! It's about all you can hear for some reason. It sounds like a damn motorcycle. :?

Initial cap voltage: 36.7 V. Final: 38.6 V. The big downhill stretch starts at 2 minutes in to part 2.

Note: you may see some idiot drivers, pedestrians, and myself "bending" the traffic laws. Please do not attempt. Professional driver on closed course.

[youtube]I6vMFnHndK0[/youtube]
Part 1
[youtube]n3yxnqTyg28[/youtube]
Part 2

More details coming soon.
 
JCG, I'm beginning to get the impression that you have what they call a "disruptive" technology here! In other words, your ultracap bike looks to be a very practical transport system, n'est-ce pas? In particular, you seem to be getting a much greater proportion of your energy recovered from regeneration than a battery system would. What we need is some quantitative data! How far can you go on the flat with no pedalling? And how far up a 10% slope can you go? And when you come back down the said slope what is the battery voltage at the place you started from compared to the outset voltage?
BTW scratch the video sound track and insert a nice Bach Cello suite! :lol:
 
You're right Paul, that soundtrack was pretty terrible. And why did that video make me look like I was going walking speed?

As far as energy recovery, well, I don't know if I'll ever have the ability to do a fair regen comparison with a battery but I hope I'll think of something. The ride home (in the movies) has some fair downhills, so I expected a net recovery, but right now I don't even know the net elevation change... more work to do! But... I can get that other data you were talking about pretty easily, there is a 10 grade hill right outside my office and a running track that I just found out is owned by the city one block west that is a quarter mile around, so I can take the zero pedaling, zero slope distance data too. The bike is essentially done, and it doesn't have the trailer anymore... I'll post the pictures later today.

Turns out I made a dumb mistake by riding home last night because I forgot that I have a dentist checkup in the SW part of the city at 9 AM. I will not only need to lock up the bike outside in a pretty sketchy neighborhood, but I have to ride in front of the White House to get there - they better not stop me and search the box on back! It will look most suspicious with all those wires. More photos soon if they don't send me to Guantanamo. :lol:
 
Ok, time for me to explain myself. I did an update a while back detailing the transfer of all electronics on the bike into the Croozer Cargo Trailer, which was met with a resounding yawn on this forum. It was kind of weird pulling something, the dynamics of starting and stopping (and pedaling hard) changed quite a bit too. Worse, the trailer weighed 11 kg (25 lb) empty. The last straw was when my graduate student said it didn't look as cool. Something had to change!

I found a big cheap plastic toolbox on sale and made a home out of it for the cap, terminal block, controller, and shunt resisitor. The toolbox seemed made for the rack over the rear wheel; its central groove fit perfectly to the rack's width! Some bungee cords (heavy duty rubber one and a standard fabric one) held the load in more securely than any method to date. Here's the result:

bike_toolbox_side.jpg


It maintains the slim profile that you like when riding in traffic:

bike_toolbox_front.jpg


One great thing is that there are only two plugs. I drilled to holes in the toolbox front-facing side, pushed in two grommets, and had a wire for motor power (left, standard 3-prong plug connection) and controls/sensors (right, military spec 14-pin connector). Soldering all 14 connections on both sides of that plug is one of my proudest achievements in my life.

plugs.jpg


Oh no! The capacitor is 75% drained!

ca_low.jpg


You can quickly disconnect the two plugs and bungee cords and take the toolbox away. This handsome gentleman is going to find a rectified variac.

toolbox_off.jpg


A nice thing about boxes is that you can stuff all kinds of things inside, and they still look good on the outside. Here are the toolbox innards:

toolbox_open_1.jpg


Exterior mounting tape (used here to hold the terminal strip on the roof) is EXCELLENT. Also notice that the box is padlockable.

This space is reserved for a 36V DeWalt battery to hook in parallel with the cap eventually:

toolbox_open_2.jpg


A quick charge and we're back in action!

ca_high.jpg
 
JCG said:
which was met with a resounding yawn on this forum.
There are probably a lot of people like me, who find what your doing EXTREMELY interesting, but don't have anything to add to the discussion.

I have read this thread, and keep checking up on it to see new updates from you. So don't think no one cares what your doing.
 
ABSOLUTELY!
 
:lol: Thanks guys. Things can be lonely on the low energy, high power side of the tracks!

Quick note: I have hooked up a 36V DeWalt "Nano" battery pack in parallel with the capacitor.

dc9360.jpg


The pictures inside the toolbox would be messy, but here's a circuit diagram:

battery_cap_parallel.jpg


The lamp keeps the charging current to around 3 A max when the switch is open - used when there is a big (initial) difference in the cap and battery voltages, like when the cap is dead and needs charging. Then, I can close the switch and allow fast charge transfer between the two when they are at about the same voltage.

I rode home and back with it like this, the resting voltage is about 33.2 V now, and on the way home I got it to 33.6. Not much swing! Motoring up a longer hill on the way in today called on about 25 A or so for most of the time, but the voltage had only dipped from 33.2 to about 31.9 when I waited at the stoplight at the top of the hill, and it slowly climbed back to 33.2 while I waited there. Interesting stuff - but needs data acquisition and graphs to be discussed properly!
 
JCG said:
:lol: Thanks guys. Things can be lonely on the low energy, high power side of the tracks!

Quick note: I have hooked up a 36V DeWalt "Nano" battery pack in parallel with the capacitor.

dc9360.jpg


The pictures inside the toolbox would be messy, but here's a circuit diagram:

battery_cap_parallel.jpg


The lamp keeps the charging current to around 3 A max when the switch is open - used when there is a big (initial) difference in the cap and battery voltages, like when the cap is dead and needs charging. Then, I can close the switch and allow fast charge transfer between the two when they are at about the same voltage.

I rode home and back with it like this, the resting voltage is about 33.2 V now, and on the way home I got it to 33.6. Not much swing! Motoring up a longer hill on the way in today called on about 25 A or so for most of the time, but the voltage had only dipped from 33.2 to about 31.9 when I waited at the stoplight at the top of the hill, and it slowly climbed back to 33.2 while I waited there. Interesting stuff - but needs data acquisition and graphs to be discussed properly!
From the looks of it, just the addition of one battery will increase the usability of your system greatly. I can see the Dewalt providing enough current for a long enough period of time to extend your hybrid pedal/electric range MUCH further than previously, while also retaining the abilities of the bike to regen TONS of current, and not need to always be plugged in to be used.
 
tostino said:
From the looks of it, just the addition of one battery will increase the usability of your system greatly. I can see the Dewalt providing enough current for a long enough period of time to extend your hybrid pedal/electric range MUCH further than previously, while also retaining the abilities of the bike to regen TONS of current, and not need to always be plugged in to be used.

You're right tostino; one interesting thing is that it seems to put me in the situation where I might keep an eye on long-term effective battery voltages( rather than amp hours spent and regened) to keep the battery off the charger as much as possible. The cap has (according to my rough observation) allowed dumping of about 35 A to the motor for a couple of seconds, and the battery sent only about 5 A to the cap over a longer period of time since the voltage difference between the two was not too much. If the A123 M1 cells (all 10 of 'em) give a resting voltage of 33.2 V now, then according to the 1A discharge curve here:

http://a123systems.textdriven.com/product/pdf/1/ANR26650M1_Datasheet_AUGUST_2008.pdf

and with the idea of staying somewhere in the 20%-80% charge range for the battery, I might be ok using regen to keep the voltage up to 34 V tops, and not letting it get below about 31 V. I noticed it does take an awful lot of pedaling to go from 33.2 V up to 34! I also realized (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the 2.3 Ah pack I've got in there is about 1/10 the capacity of most ebikes around here. It sure is pretty light compared to everything else in the toolbox.
 
Well it's probably not 1/10th of most ebikes, but it's close. That is truly a small pack, however, the cells that make it are such high quality that one could run a bike off one battery pack (with bypassing the BMS), which is something you just cannot do with almost any other cell/chemistry type.
 
I just thought about something... If you felt like it, you could tear apart 2 of those dewalt packs, and solder up enough cells (13s) to get you to a charge of 48.1 when the battery is full (assuming 3.7 is full charge resting voltage, I can't remember exactly what it is for A123).

You might as well try and increase the battery voltage so you can use it right away (without undercharging your cap to achieve this).
 
It kinda seems like the direction you may end up heading is higher volt caps [say 48volts] being charged by brakes/rapid regeneration, and a high amp hour lower volt battery [say 32volts] being recharged by either the caps or slow/pedal regeneration.

Normal acceleration is with battery, and Super acceleration is with caps or caps + battery.

Dean.
 
Interesting... and here I was thinking about tearing the cap box apart and removing a few of those to get it down to 36 V or so...

Maybe some kind of diode setup between parallel-connected battery (36V) and cap (up to 48 V) with the diodes preventing current going into the battery, but allowing it to come out if the cap voltage drops below 36V? Hmmm...
 
JCG said:
Interesting... and here I was thinking about tearing the cap box apart and removing a few of those to get it down to 36 V or so...

Maybe some kind of diode setup between parallel-connected battery (36V) and cap (up to 48 V) with the diodes preventing current going into the battery, but allowing it to come out if the cap voltage drops below 36V? Hmmm...
That would work too. I was just thinking about getting the battery voltage up so you could have a little higher performance constantly, rather than great performance to start, and then when the battery is able to help, only okay performance.
 
yanwin said:
Can i ride it for 3 hours?

Why, you certainly can. Come on over and take her for a spin.

I have finally got some data! I BIG thank you to Justin for doing a couple of things: 1st, making the new Cycle Analyst code (2.1 beta 4) do serial data output, and 2nd making this new firmware available to us for testing. Another BIG thank you to philf for walking me through the reprogramming of the microchip in the CA and giving instructions on how to pipe the data out of the CA and into a TTL-USB adapter which leads to the computer. More details have been posted by others elsewhere, but here are the data leads soldered into the CA board and going out:

ca_after_solder.jpg


I connected those two wires to two pins in this cable:

TTL-232R-3V3.jpg


Black to ground (black wire) and yellow to data stream (red wire). The data stream comes out and is written into a text file.

data.jpg


I put the laptop on my back and rode out to the running track to get some zero slope data. I took a bunch of things but here is the data of me trying to keep a steady 20 kph without any pedaling. Look closely and you can see when I was facing in to the wind around the oval-shaped track.

endurance_graph.jpg


I took the cap potential down to 36 V from the original 48 and went 2.24 km at an average speed of 20.6 kph, which took 393 seconds. Average power use was 200 W. Continue using 200 W to drain the capacitor down to 24 V, and it will take you another 453 seconds at the same speed to give you 2.6 additional km, for a total of 4.84 km, or right on three miles.

"How far does it go on a charge?" Now you have it! More work to do now (hills, etc.).

Thanks again to my Canadian friends J & P.

JG
 
JCG said:
The ride home (in the movies) has some fair downhills, so I expected a net recovery, but right now I don't even know the net elevation change... more work to do!

I am loving this thread. But regarding elevation mapping, you have to spend a few minutes at MapMyRide. It's a fantastic tool for cyclists.

Willie
 
You can also get distance and elevation data quickly from Google Earth.
 
JCG said:
I put the laptop on my back and rode out to the running track to get some zero slope data. I took a bunch of things but here is the data of me trying to keep a steady 20 kph without any pedaling. Look closely and you can see when I was facing in to the wind around the oval-shaped track.

We need a picture of that setup. Majorly geeky.
Outstanding on the data collection! That cap holds up quite a bit longer than I figured one would. I'm impressed. Now, if you mated it to an induction motor, your top speed wouldn't drop off much as you discharged. I suppose there are other ways to even out the power delivery (buck/boost).
 
Back
Top