Una de tantas

[maesitos]

Hi guys I asked for help in this thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18042&start=0&hilit=maesitos and finally my electric bike is almost done. It's nothing special, just the typical controller and motor, everything from Crystalyte but despite of being an ordinari bike I'd like to show it to you!!!

This are the pictures I took this morning.

I'm still waiting for the battery, I payed to vpower.hk (eBay) Express shipping 8 days ago and the haven't even shipped it yet, I'm very impatient!!

 

[DAND214]

Nice build maesitos. Nice ride I would say. I see it's a front hub, any plans for tourque arms?
Are the dropouts steel or aluminum? either way you should get some tourque arms, It's a nasy ride if you loose the front wheel!
Hope you have good luck with your ride and you V-Power battery.
As befoer great build.
Dan

 

[dnmun]

torque arms and the c washers in the dropout recess so that the nut does not break off the alloy tangs of the dropout. the force needs to be inside around the axle when you tighten that nut, and not outside on the dog ears that hold the skewer in place when you release the axle for normal axles. even just torquing down the nut with out the c washer can cause the aluminum to break, and the crack may not be visible until the dropout breaks off. i need to order some myself from justin.

 

[torker]

Yea ditto on the torque arm. GET one. Have you read Dogmans thread about mounting a hub to a front alloy fork? Motors concentrate a LOT of force where they bolt up. Nice looking bike. If it is not so comfy you can upgrade the seat pretty cheap and add a riser to the handlebar stem also. Also the rack looks kinda thin. Might want to beef that up a little before you start hitting lots of bumps at speed.

 

[maesitos]

Have you read Dogmans thread about mounting a hub to a front alloy fork?

I haven't, I will look for it.


I'm starting to get scared, it looks a bit dangerous. Where can I buy those torque arms?

 

[torker]

I found one of Dogmans tutorials. Not sure if it the one I wanted but it has good info. Also some have used a boxend wrench and clamped that to the forks but that only works on the right side I think and it does not actually hold the axle. The motor will try to spin backwards in the fork if it works loose. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...lit=fitting+hubs+to+front+alloy+forks#p211721

I know Ebike.ca sells a washer specifically for a quick release fork and a torque arm as well. All the vendors on here sell some sort of torque arm I think. Is that fork alum or magnesium? If it is I would not go far without something to capture that axle. Also how the axle fits is just as important. Dogmans thread explains this pretty well. It looks like it will be a bit of a challenge to get a proper fit of a torque arm on that one because it looks like the dropout is not centered on the fork leg but it can be done. Also some are adjustable which will help.

Hopefully someone here will post a pic of their setup using similar forks so you can see how it should look.

 

[torker]

I also found another of Dogmans that go over the simple issues. C-washers is the name of the washer to get from ebike.ca
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18315

 

[maesitos]

This is how my dropout looks like:

I think it fits perfect, doesn't it?

I read in the user manual of my fork and it's alloy...

I think I'm not going to ride the bike till I buy some torque arms. Falling down at 40km/h with traffic is no fun.

Do you know where I can buy a pair of torque arms in europe?

 

[torker]

Yes it does look like a good fit. I saw the tabbed washers laying in the box. Good call on not using them. I am sure they would not fit the recessed area where the quick release fits. As it is the axle nuts fit in the recess, which is good.

Hopefully someone from Europe will post. I am not sure where to order torque arms there. Are you near a big enough town with a shop that might carry some electric bikes? Also did you use a washer on the inside? I can't tell from the pics. I know with some suspension forks it is a tight fit and you don't want to put your forks in a bind but you should have washers on the inside.

 

[dnmun]

justin at ebikes.ca is the only one i know, maybe jason a E-bikekit.com also has them.

if you look at the picture you can see the dog ear that sticks out at the bottom, and how the cone for the skewer normally goes inside that recess so that when you loosen the skewer, the whole wheel assembly doesn't fall out of the fork.

when you tightened the nut on that dog ear, it strains the aluminum so that a metal failure is induced in the dropout fork and eventually the fork breaks along that line that is cracked.

so that is where the fork breaks, not from the load of the motor torque, but from metal fatigue induced by the tightening of the nut onto that dog ear that sticks out. but it is the motor torque which will cause it to fail. the torque arm then mounts on top and is tied back up to the cylindrical part of the fork with gear clamps through the torque arm slots, justin has these too, and i got my torque arms from jason, he includes them with his kits.

doesn't jason use EBK now for his pms?

 

[maesitos]

Are you near a big enough town with a shop that might carry some electric bikes?

No, there is not that kind of stores in my country.

Also did you use a washer on the inside?

I only had room for one:

 

[torker]

Ok Hopefully you have a vise and some tools or you know someone who does OR you can wait for the torque arms and c washers from Canada. I don't mean to sound extreme but that alum. fork will break eventually. If you have access to a shop someone could help you get the right hardware like thinner washers for the inside and then maybe you could grind down the washers that it came with the motor to use on the outside. They will have to fit nice and flat in the recessed part so when you do install a torque arm it can sit on top of that washer and not on the edges of that lip. If you take time with this critical step of fitting that motor right it will be pretty safe. Can't take a shortcut here

 

[maesitos]

oh man I should have bought rear motor... I don't think I will feel very safe with a torque arm... is anybody using alloy fork with torque arm and no problems? Will it prevent fork from braking?

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes you must fit a torque arm on those forks they will snap pretty quickly if you dont, front hub motors are fine!! just be careful when running them with alloy forks, Devin from the Tidalforce forum broke both clean off when trying this on his bike he got scared and ran steel front forks after that with extra plate welded in as an inbuilt torque arm.

I made my own for my bike, really easy, junior hacksaw and a bit of filing and drilling, contact ebikes.ca if you dont fancy making your own, I would make something along the lines of my design to move the torque away from the eye of the fork.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4539&hilit=+torque+arm

Nice tidy bike as well really clean build hope you get your battery soon.

Knoxie

 

[DAND214]

maesitos, I wasn't trying to scare you, just want you to enjoy your ride. My first hub was a frt hub and the fork is steel and I still spun the axle. It's fine now but put torque arms on it till I went t rear hubs.
There a lot of alloy frt forks out there that guys are using with torque arms. Main thing is to get the washers inside and out to fit perfect and 2 torque arms. They will keep the wheel in place even if it does break so you have somrthing to stop on.
The fit looks perfect so as the rest of the boys say is make sure you have washers so the axle doesn't put the wrong pressure to split the dropout.
Dan

 

[maesitos]

Hi

Yes you must fit a torque arm on those forks they will snap pretty quickly if you dont, front hub motors are fine!! just be careful when running them with alloy forks, Devin from the Tidalforce forum broke both clean off when trying this on his bike he got scared

Was that guy using torque arms?

 

[torker]

Did you check out Knoxies link? That is totally doable. If you do decide to make one or two I have found something that works for me. Since the hole is not round and it has 4 "corners" you can drill a very small hole at each corner before you drill the large one. If you do then this gives you something to file to. Then if you had a way to stick those inside washers to something-like a magnet you could carefully grind them a little thinner so you could use one on each side. Once you get the washers in place and make up some kind of torque arm you'll be good. "If" the fork breaks it'll save your teeth Keep in mind that as long as you get a really good fit AND you use the torque arms that fork may never break.

 

[maesitos]

Keep in mind that as long as you get a really good fit AND you use the torque arms that fork may never break.

That is encouraging, I don't feel like building my own torque arm. I think I'm buying tonight a pair of them from ebike.ca

I hope that torque arms work in case the fork breaks or at least I hope they let me control the bike till I stop it.

 

[torker]

That is exactly what they are for. Use a couple good stainless hose clamps to fasten them to the fork or better yet if you can make something that bolts on a disc brake boss and bolt it to that. I didn't notice if those forks had any bolt holes .. Might talk to Justin if you can and try to get the c washers or at least some thin washers for the inside. He will know exactly what you need especially if you can send him a couple of those good pics. Once you get this mounted right the torque arms should keep the stress off the dropout.

 

[dnmun]

the idea is to use the small C washer to fill the recess so that when the nut compresses, the aluminum dropout is squeezed evenly on both sides.

not allowing all the force to be concentrated on to the one corner where that dog ear sticks out prevents the aluminum from cracking.

steel and aluminum are totally different. you cannot deform aluminum without creating strains in the metal, those strains are where the cracks start when the axle twists inside the dropout when under load.

so stop the twisting with the torque arm and stop the deformation of the dropout with the C washer.

justin and the guys at ebikes.ca know more about this than i ever will. email them. ask them which C washer and torque arm to get.

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes you must fit a torque arm on those forks they will snap pretty quickly if you dont, front hub motors are fine!! just be careful when running them with alloy forks, Devin from the Tidalforce forum broke both clean off when trying this on his bike he got scared

Was that guy using torque arms?

Hi

Well 2 things he was running a much bigger motor a crystalyte X5 and he was running at 72V 40A, I might be able to find the picture I have it somewhere? anyway they were good quality forks I remember, he had no torque arms on at all he turned the throttle to accelerate and they snapped before he even started to move! so his teeth were ok just his wallet that got hurt.

Your setup isnt anywhere near as powerful however you dont need much to break those forks, there was a guy on here selling stainless steel ones just search in the forum for torque arms, we dont see that many front wheel motors on suspension forks to be honest but it can be done safely, Justin will let you know its really not that hard to make your own, checked mine yesterday hasnt moved at all since it was fitted a couple of years back.

Best of luck with the build

 

[maesitos]

I don't know how I'm going to fit here a washer in the interior side of the fork, I need a c washer, right? but a vert thin one because I almost don't have room!!!

 

[knoxie]

This wasnt Devins fork but its a good example, the link with this picture can be found here, you dont need to fit washers you need to fit a torque arm you need to move the torque away from the drops, I used an open ended spanner on my BMX it worked well till it snapped ha ha.

Search the forum for torque arms you should be able to get an idea.

Knoxie

 

[torker]

He is talking about washers on the inside I think. They have to fit in any recess that may be there also. The idea is that whatever hardware you put on there should fit flat and not deform when you tighten it. I didn't realize till I looked at those last pictures that the inside has a nice large flat. My 9c motor has a larger diam. threaded area making a really small flat so I had to use washers on the inside. Call Justin if you can though. See if he has thin washers.

 

[maesitos]

Call Justin if you can though. See if he has thin washers.

I didn't call Him but I did e-mailed him.

This is what we told me:

Hi Guillermo, with the 400 series Crystalyte motor and a 20A controller, one torque arm is usually enough, but it never hurts to have two. 

With the Crystalyte axles, there is no need at all for a thin inside washer, just have the dropout go directly to the axle shoulder. So your order is correct, two 'C' washers to fit inside the quick release recess, and one or two torque arms to secure against axle spin. 

Justin