Using leafmotor/leafbike 1500w as mid-drive motor?

[crossbreak]

just count 'em
pic from https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=66489&start=575#p1098484

 

[amberwolf]

my speedo is about 3-4 mph under, when I change to 20 pole it evens out with my brothers motorcycle speedo alongside me...

Not exactly unheard of for speedometers to be "calibrated" to read faster speeds than the vehicle is actuallly going, so most likely yours is accurate and his is not.

 

[madin88]

When my wheel is set as 2160mm (measured with string) and 23 pole pairs my speedo is about 3-4 mph under, when I change to 20 pole it evens out with my brothers motorcycle speedo alongside me... Are we sure the 1500w leaf has 23poles as the CA v3 setup? why is my speedo wonky then? confusing...

instead of the string method, it would be more accurate to measure the radius with you sitting on the bike. than calculate the relevant diameter

 

[crossbreak]

Not exactly unheard of for speedometers to be "calibrated" to read faster speeds than the vehicle is actuallly going, so most likely yours is accurate and his is not.

+1 looks like 23 pole pairs

 

[ABritInNY]

Yes Guys I can count 46 or 23 pairs, tbh this was the first pic Ive seen (that I remember) where ALL the magnets were visible to me, (none chopped off at the bottom where I guestimated) I've since set it back correctly to 23 and will have to try other methods to reconcile the speedo with other vehicles (or accept it's accurate when it doesn't feel it.) Guess it's the wheel re-measuring next... thanks for all the help though, it's much appreciated in narrowing this matter down.

 

[ABritInNY]

When my wheel is set as 2160mm (measured with string) and 23 pole pairs my speedo is about 3-4 mph under, when I change to 20 pole it evens out with my brothers motorcycle speedo alongside me... Are we sure the 1500w leaf has 23poles as the CA v3 setup? why is my speedo wonky then? confusing...

instead of the string method, it would be more accurate to measure the radius with you sitting on the bike. than calculate the relevant diameter

Err how do I do that? I'm no mathmatician (in fact I can't even SPELL IT lol) any easier dead ACCURATE way to measure? its a 26" wheel with 2.3 maxxis high roller 11 tires, dunno about my weight sag effect on this calculation, since I'm 125lbs and the bike's about 85lbs... Guess I can always figure it out by trial and error.

 

[amberwolf]

Before you worry about recalibrating your own speedo, have you verified *his* is calibrated correctly?

 

[madin88]

Err how do I do that? I'm no mathmatician (in fact I can't even SPELL IT lol) any easier dead ACCURATE way to measure? its a 26" wheel with 2.3 maxxis high roller 11 tires, dunno about my weight sag effect on this calculation, since I'm 125lbs and the bike's about 85lbs... Guess I can always figure it out by trial and error.

sit on the bike and make sure that it stands vertically not leaning. than ask someone to measure the distance from the axle to the bottom. this will give you the radius.
two times the radius will give you the diameter. if you multiply the diameter with PI (3,142) you have the circumference.

but as amberwolf mentioned you should check if the speedo of the guy on the motorcylce was correct. i believe yours is within a few percent and his not

 

[speedmd]

Most reliable method I have found to measure wheel / distance, is to roll it out for one or more rotations with weight on the bike. Mark the ground and the tire sidewall with a square (as close to the ground as you can do cleanly) and roll out one or more rotations in a straight line and locate- mark the ground again with the square. Measure accurately and you will be within tenths of a percent.

 

[Kodin]

You could also ask a cop to radar you if they've got nothing better to do... Just run it at 10 mph and ask him to verify so you can get your speedo calibrated; most nice cops will be happy to help you get accurate readings so you don't inadvertently break the law.

Also, if you guys want more pics of the Leafbike motors check my sig for my build thread, (recently updated,) or my gallery where all my images are hosted.

 

[Lurkin]

Cell phone using GPS and speedo app or GPS unit.

 

[ABritInNY]

Thanks for all the suggestions about how to get my Speedo accurately calibrated, Btw my brother has a brand new 2015 Suzuki Vstrom bike and it does seem to match my Kayman flash+ speedo reading also, so that's why I relied on it... Now that issue is sorted, I've got to figure out what is up with my Controller not allowing me over 19-20 mph top speed? I see on my CA that my 76v nom battery and lyen controller pump out 52a max @this setting (40a continuous and 80a phase) and Ive seen almost 4kw power, so acceleration is amazing, Waaay way better than my geared kayman flash, but then it quickly tops out @about 19 mph or so, power settling down to about 400 odd watts? (according to the display) I'm still awaiting my new prog cable so I can only play with my CA v3 settings @the moment, to change things but all I can manage to do is make it even slower! (groan): not faster, Why can't I maintain a steady power output above that 400w on any CA power mode? and what exactly am I doing wrong?

 

[teklektik]

I think it would be a good idea to read the manual...

There are two links on the ebikes.ca site to the Unofficial User Guide - one is on the manual download page...

Thanks for all the suggestions about how to get my Speedo accurately calibrated, ....

• 
  Please see the manual section called out in the Table of Contents "6.11 Determining Tire Circumference".
  This section describes how to accurately obtain the working tire circumference of a loaded bike to calibrate the CA.

and what exactly am I doing wrong?

• No way to tell.
  Your first step should be to run the bike without the CA attached to ensure that everything operates properly. Any operating issue manifest at that time will clearly be attributable to the other major components/wiring before you throw the V3 into the mix... When the bike works correctly in its own right, carefully follow the installation steps in the Guide to get the V3 running properly.
  
  The V3 is not a plug and play device - in point of fact, it will not operate properly if plugged into the 'CA connector' of some controllers... There is no way to know what you have done electrically or by configuration that might account for your power restriction - hence the installation steps to guide you through the proper choices. There is a specific step in the installation that shows you how to diagnose power restrictions...

 

[ABritInNY]

I think it would be a good idea to read the manual...
Thanks for the advice, Teklektik, I think your guide is fantastically well written and explained (even to Newbs such as myself,) I actually have 4 diff CAv3 post pages loaded up side by side, as I attempt to figure this out... I guess I'll have to figure out how to do as you say and disconnect the CA from the controller to see if power still starts limiting (on ALL Modes) as it approaches the 20mph mark... Only issue seems to be that the "ignition" wire/cable on my 18fet lyen controller, needs to be serialed to the positive battery cable to start the bike moving (I Have installed a key switch to control it, so I'm not sure how that would work?

and what exactly am I doing wrong?

• No way to tell.
  Your first step should be to run the bike without the CA attached to ensure that everything operates properly. Any operating issue manifest at that time will clearly be attributable to the other major components/wiring before you throw the V3 into the mix... When the bike works correctly in its own right, carefully follow the installation steps in the Guide to get the V3 running properly.
  
  The V3 is not a plug and play device - in point of fact, it will not operate properly if plugged into the 'CA connector' of some controllers... There is no way to know what you have done electrically or by configuration that might account for your power restriction - hence the installation steps to guide you through the proper choices. There is a specific step in the installation that shows you how to diagnose power restrictions...

I know it's not really plug n play so I had Edward Lyen make all the connections plus install a temp sensor from motor to CA, when I purchased the controller and CA from him and had him make the motor and all controller connections before I then assembled them, obv after checking the motor turned/worked as in my test-video from him. I've since had programming cable problems and just want to out sort the bikes initial setup correctly, so that it doesn't top out @20 mph...UNLESS I want it to. obviously I'm gonna reread the guide again, to find the power restriction settings and check what could be clamping the speed, but if anyone has any Ideas or had similar problems, any input is appreciated thanks.

 

[teklektik]

I know it's not really plug n play so I had Edward Lyen make all the connections...

Just to be clear - the electrical part is the smallest part of the issue - the largest part of 'not plug and play' is the firmware configuration.

obviously I'm gonna reread the guide again, to find the power restriction settings and check what could be clamping the speed...

Actually, I recommend that you start again and follow the installation steps carefully. Read a step, do it,... Do not read the Guide as a big blob and then try to just wing it. Do not do the steps out of order.

Recommended steps:

1. verify that your bike runs correctly with CA disconnected and throttle plugged into controller.
2. Flash your device to defaults or use the Setup utility to clear *all* settings you have made by shooting up the V3.0 defaults w/o editing.
3. Do the very first test in the very first installation step (4.2.1.1 / section 1) and verify that your system responds as 'Large Screen Compatible'.
   This will guarantee that Ed's hookup is spot on and the CA-DP interface types match.
4. Since Ed has done the hardware installation, skip the remainder of step 4.2.
5. Follow the remaining steps starting with 4.3 to set/zero the shunt, tune the throttle, set the ramping, investigate limit flags, etc.
   At this point your bike should not be limited to 20mph and there will be no need for remedial investigation.
6. Only after that basic setup is successful, move on to section 5.0 and other throttle modes, temperature sensing, etc.

In the end, the V3 can be very persnickety because settings can interact in unexpected ways - that is the reason for this cookbook approach.

Look at this like making a cake - you can follow the recipe in detail and measure and mix all the exact ingredients in the proper order OR you can quickly scan the recipe, buy more or less what you remember and wing the proportions, temperature, and cooking time.
The first cake will almost certainly be a success - the second, not so much.

 

[ABritInNY]

I know it's not really plug n play so I had Edward Lyen make all the connections...

Just to be clear - the electrical part is the smallest part of the issue - the largest part of 'not plug and play' is the firmware configuration.

obviously I'm gonna reread the guide again, to find the power restriction settings and check what could be clamping the speed...

Actually, I recommend that you start again and follow the installation steps carefully. Read a step, do it,... Do not read the Guide as a big blob and then try to just wing it. Do not do the steps out of order.

Recommended steps:

1. verify that your bike runs correctly with CA disconnected and throttle plugged into controller.
2. Flash your device to defaults or use the Setup utility to clear *all* settings you have made by shooting up the V3.0 defaults w/o editing.
3. Do the very first test in the very first installation step (4.2.1.1 / section 1) and verify that your system responds as 'Large Screen Compatible'.
   This will guarantee that Ed's hookup is spot on and the CA-DP interface types match.
4. Since Ed has done the hardware installation, skip the remainder of step 4.2.
5. Follow the remaining steps starting with 4.3 to set/zero the shunt, tune the throttle, set the ramping, investigate limit flags, etc.
   At this point your bike should not be limited to 20mph and there will be no need for remedial investigation.
6. Only after that basic setup is successful, move on to section 5.0 and other throttle modes, temperature sensing, etc.

In the end, the V3 can be very persnickety because settings can interact in unexpected ways - that is the reason for this cookbook approach.

Look at this like making a cake - you can follow the recipe in detail and measure and mix all the exact ingredients in the proper order OR you can quickly scan the recipe, buy more or less what you remember and wing the proportions, temperature, and cooking time.
The first cake will almost certainly be a success - the second, not so much.

Thank you Tek, since you advised me a couple months back, of the steps needed to get my bike working properly, I realized there'd be "No quick fix," but to start over! so I prepared myself for all the extra work and set myself to reading again. It's certainly taken me some time to read and digest the guide and I had initially planned to rebuild it in spring when it's warmer in my garage. In the meantime I've checked with Ed all the reference values, like shunt and voltages that I'd need, to successfully program the CA and compare with the readouts I get when doing setup. A lucky break in the extreme cold weather meant I was able to start "Baking," my Ebike cake today, ;p as per your instructions.
When testing the bike's new (Raw) setup in the evening, I was (for the first time ever!) zipping around @50mph+ and ALL I kept thinking was... "Damn that Tek, is a mighty fine Baker!" lol, So anyway, Cheers Mate, It's really appreciated.