demeyer1
10 mW
This is really long, but I think it would have been really helpful for me had I had a super comprehensive review before I made my first eBike purchase.
(picture not mine, though I added my pictures/video at the bottom of the thread)
TLDR; 2014 Neo Extrem, in my limited experience, can have reliability issues out of the gate. If you do not live near a service retailer, don’t buy one - stick instead with a brand that has strong reliability, quality control, and customer-first support; or, take the advice of the folks on Endless Sphere and consider another brand or DIY.
Well, I did not take the advice of those on Endless-sphere cautioning against buying a premade bike. I didn’t think I had the technical expertise to build my own. As it turns out I ended up learning how to assemble and troubleshoot an ebike shortly after purchasing a premade model. I’ve come to realize that DIY may be the way to go - as you’ll need to learn assembly, part installation, component tuning, and general maintenance anyways.. at least in my case.
I read a great Endless-sphere review on the 2014 Neo Extrem before buying: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51772
I agree with the author mostly, in the time I was able to do so, this was a fun bike to ride - looks great, feels really solid and though heavy - rides well for what it is and what you pay. I also had the same experience as him.. only worse, when it comes to reliability, right out of the box. Still, if the bike did work, the value equation (buy v build) would seem balanced to me. I bought mine new from a dealer in the midwest based on a recommendation from a knowledgeable Redditor in the eBike community. This was my first mistake - I live in California. The discount was limited, due to shipping, but the recommendation was that this place was a great a retailer and I tend to trust word of mouth referrals. The mistake wasn't the retailer, it was not buying from a local shop in case something goes wrong.
The box arrived, and the bike was partially assembled but did not include tools. This was one of the reasons why I bought a premade bike, to avoid this situation as I'm not particularly experienced with bikes. I wasn’t aware of this, but not a huge issue. As you’d expect, I was excited so I went out and bought the necessary tools (simple, cheap) and followed the instructions to put the bike together and tune all the various components per the manual. I later found out from the manufacturer the bike had to be assembled by a professional bike mechanic. Was not notified of this fact. Still the bike was finished with little issue over the course of an evening. Premade can still be DIY - surprise #1.
The bike has a twist throttle and pedal assist. It was a lot of fun. That said, if you want to be able to climb even a mild hill on only throttle.. this bike does not have enough torque to do that for you without the pedal assist. The 350W motor is regarded as a very good one from what I understand, and I only weigh 150lbs, but this bike struggled on mild grades for me, but that could be due to a number of reasons (including my inexperience with eBikes). Torque was limited - surprise #2.
Still, I used the bike for 3 days. Mild weather. 3-6 miles a day. Followed the break-in procedures by the book. And then I started to notice a couple issues with the bike on day 3:
Regardless of these small issues, by day 4, I was loving the eBike experience and still felt confident enough to take a longer route to work that was more scenic - and, of course, then the error codes (#5 ,#9, #14) started appearing. One indicated foot pressure, when my feet were off the pedals entirely. The second one indicated loose wires. Everything appeared to be connected when I looked at it. Of course, I was many miles from home.. an excellent leg workout ensued. Valuable lesson learned about eBikes - they are quite heavy, and if they fail on you mid-ride, it’s going to be a while before you get home and you won’t need to hit the gym that evening.
So I crafted emails to support and initially received the expected basic guidance:
The support team at the manufacturer was super responsive, but ultimately has thus far proven unhelpful. They informed me that the bike had to be assembled by a pro - something the retailer did not share with me. Then they deferred to the retailer thousands of miles away for support - also not helpful, but they stepped up (on their own accord) and did their best to troubleshoot. Given the differences in timezones combined with the fact I work during the day, I asked the retailer to work with me via email but I initially received voicemails.. making support challenging. The jist of the voicemails I did receive - don’t pedal when changing modes and then try restarting. If that doesn’t work - check for loose wires. It seems intuitive, but don’t expect Amazon/Zappos type support. If the bike arrives in poor shape, they won't send you a new one and pick up the old one (common now even with mattresses purchased online). While the manufacturer was great and communicative, and they eventually got the product team to do their best to help (without success, but not by lack of effort) they do appear to primarily push support to their retail channel. To summarize.. this model is not necessarily reliable (caveat: for me, and my situation may be unique) and the support strategy in this market is like a car, go to the dealer and hope for the best if you have a lemon - don't buy online - surprise #4.
For someone in my shoes, a first time eBike purchaser with limited tools and bike experience - here is a summary of what I’ve learned (bike manuf/model agnostic):
Summary of my thoughts on the BH Emotion Neo Extrem:
PS. Shout out to the support team at BH for trying to help, even though their hands are tied (my lack of technical ebike experience). I think they have top tier people working in product management, fast to help with support, and those type people deserve credit where it is due. The retailer (unnamed here) has tried to the extent possible.. it just seems these things happen. My fingers are crossed that they will find a way to resolve all these issues in the future; but, for now it would appear that I am stuck in warranty/manuf/retailer limbo.
My pictures and videos, for those interested..
The battery - arrived banged up and does not quite fit the frame snugly:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdY3Vxd3ExeUJjV1E/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdRnhKa051aWJqNGM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdTmxBNElSdnhZUkk/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdOUgyeTN1ZzY3STQ/view?usp=sharing
Pedal assist and throttle not working:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_x6wCVhVDmdbWNGM1lScjNidnM&authuser=1
Random part that fell off the bike on the first day:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_x6wCVhVDmdbHVPcW80Q3I0ZDQ&authuser=1
(picture not mine, though I added my pictures/video at the bottom of the thread)
TLDR; 2014 Neo Extrem, in my limited experience, can have reliability issues out of the gate. If you do not live near a service retailer, don’t buy one - stick instead with a brand that has strong reliability, quality control, and customer-first support; or, take the advice of the folks on Endless Sphere and consider another brand or DIY.
Well, I did not take the advice of those on Endless-sphere cautioning against buying a premade bike. I didn’t think I had the technical expertise to build my own. As it turns out I ended up learning how to assemble and troubleshoot an ebike shortly after purchasing a premade model. I’ve come to realize that DIY may be the way to go - as you’ll need to learn assembly, part installation, component tuning, and general maintenance anyways.. at least in my case.
I read a great Endless-sphere review on the 2014 Neo Extrem before buying: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51772
I agree with the author mostly, in the time I was able to do so, this was a fun bike to ride - looks great, feels really solid and though heavy - rides well for what it is and what you pay. I also had the same experience as him.. only worse, when it comes to reliability, right out of the box. Still, if the bike did work, the value equation (buy v build) would seem balanced to me. I bought mine new from a dealer in the midwest based on a recommendation from a knowledgeable Redditor in the eBike community. This was my first mistake - I live in California. The discount was limited, due to shipping, but the recommendation was that this place was a great a retailer and I tend to trust word of mouth referrals. The mistake wasn't the retailer, it was not buying from a local shop in case something goes wrong.
The box arrived, and the bike was partially assembled but did not include tools. This was one of the reasons why I bought a premade bike, to avoid this situation as I'm not particularly experienced with bikes. I wasn’t aware of this, but not a huge issue. As you’d expect, I was excited so I went out and bought the necessary tools (simple, cheap) and followed the instructions to put the bike together and tune all the various components per the manual. I later found out from the manufacturer the bike had to be assembled by a professional bike mechanic. Was not notified of this fact. Still the bike was finished with little issue over the course of an evening. Premade can still be DIY - surprise #1.
The bike has a twist throttle and pedal assist. It was a lot of fun. That said, if you want to be able to climb even a mild hill on only throttle.. this bike does not have enough torque to do that for you without the pedal assist. The 350W motor is regarded as a very good one from what I understand, and I only weigh 150lbs, but this bike struggled on mild grades for me, but that could be due to a number of reasons (including my inexperience with eBikes). Torque was limited - surprise #2.
Still, I used the bike for 3 days. Mild weather. 3-6 miles a day. Followed the break-in procedures by the book. And then I started to notice a couple issues with the bike on day 3:
The battery seemed to not fit perfectly flush, but it never fell off. Didn’t impact performance but I just assumed this is how it is intended to work.. not a smooth fit.
Battery appeared a little banged/chipped up in a couple small spots - once again, assumed this was normal and just shipped from somewhere far or with limited care.
Sticker material seemed to start flaking early. Not a huge issue, down the line I thought about removing decals anyway.
Torque seemed unusually limited on the twist throttle for someone that is only 150lbs, but my commute is pretty flat, so that wasn’t a big deal and again I assumed it’s what I was supposed to experience for these bikes (it’s my first one).
Regardless of these small issues, by day 4, I was loving the eBike experience and still felt confident enough to take a longer route to work that was more scenic - and, of course, then the error codes (#5 ,#9, #14) started appearing. One indicated foot pressure, when my feet were off the pedals entirely. The second one indicated loose wires. Everything appeared to be connected when I looked at it. Of course, I was many miles from home.. an excellent leg workout ensued. Valuable lesson learned about eBikes - they are quite heavy, and if they fail on you mid-ride, it’s going to be a while before you get home and you won’t need to hit the gym that evening.
So I crafted emails to support and initially received the expected basic guidance:
- Restart the bike
Don’t pedal when shifting modes
Check the wires to make sure they are connected, blow on them
The support team at the manufacturer was super responsive, but ultimately has thus far proven unhelpful. They informed me that the bike had to be assembled by a pro - something the retailer did not share with me. Then they deferred to the retailer thousands of miles away for support - also not helpful, but they stepped up (on their own accord) and did their best to troubleshoot. Given the differences in timezones combined with the fact I work during the day, I asked the retailer to work with me via email but I initially received voicemails.. making support challenging. The jist of the voicemails I did receive - don’t pedal when changing modes and then try restarting. If that doesn’t work - check for loose wires. It seems intuitive, but don’t expect Amazon/Zappos type support. If the bike arrives in poor shape, they won't send you a new one and pick up the old one (common now even with mattresses purchased online). While the manufacturer was great and communicative, and they eventually got the product team to do their best to help (without success, but not by lack of effort) they do appear to primarily push support to their retail channel. To summarize.. this model is not necessarily reliable (caveat: for me, and my situation may be unique) and the support strategy in this market is like a car, go to the dealer and hope for the best if you have a lemon - don't buy online - surprise #4.
For someone in my shoes, a first time eBike purchaser with limited tools and bike experience - here is a summary of what I’ve learned (bike manuf/model agnostic):
- Some eBikes purchased online as a full package still require very real assembly (plan a couple hours)
The torque on a twist throttle setup, at least for this model (with 350W), is not adequate for anything but a perfectly flat hill
While the total number of parts would seem limited to the untrained eye - be prepared to learn about your bike as it’s probably unrealistic to expect to outsource all support/maintenance
It’s still very early days and issues like support network for online purchases are just not refined - expect some friction if you have issues
Consider the guidance from the ES community strongly when making your decision - it may not be what you want to hear, but it seems to be directionally accurate
Summary of my thoughts on the BH Emotion Neo Extrem:
- Great looking bike
When it ran - it was fun!
Integrated battery is very convenient
Bike itself was nice, with the actual bike on par with expectations (weight aside)
Battery life seemed reasonable
The 350W motor has limited torque, but you shouldn’t be expecting it to make it up hills for you given the specs - PRW points out in another post an upgraded battery might fix this
While the bike felt solid as a tank, it wasn’t long until I noticed many small quality issues and within the first week - error codes abounded (still - my experience may be isolated)
Manufacturer is super responsive, but is not really empowered to actually solve your problems immediately (default to dealer - do not purchase online) - this is critical if you view this machine as a daily commuter and need it to work, or have issues resolved quickly
Seems to be breakdowns in communications between manufacturer and retailers on commerce guidelines (eg. assembly), but that could be a misinterpretation on my part.. I think my personal experience is a function of all this being early days vs anyone’s specific fault
If you buy a premade bike, BUY LOCAL for support purposes (there are a couple posts on the forum about issues with their remote support)
PS. Shout out to the support team at BH for trying to help, even though their hands are tied (my lack of technical ebike experience). I think they have top tier people working in product management, fast to help with support, and those type people deserve credit where it is due. The retailer (unnamed here) has tried to the extent possible.. it just seems these things happen. My fingers are crossed that they will find a way to resolve all these issues in the future; but, for now it would appear that I am stuck in warranty/manuf/retailer limbo.
My pictures and videos, for those interested..
The battery - arrived banged up and does not quite fit the frame snugly:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdY3Vxd3ExeUJjV1E/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdRnhKa051aWJqNGM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdTmxBNElSdnhZUkk/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_x6wCVhVDmdOUgyeTN1ZzY3STQ/view?usp=sharing
Pedal assist and throttle not working:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_x6wCVhVDmdbWNGM1lScjNidnM&authuser=1
Random part that fell off the bike on the first day:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_x6wCVhVDmdbHVPcW80Q3I0ZDQ&authuser=1
