Walmart Booster Batteries

[skeetab5780]

10 miles a day keeps the doctor away!

 

[Boyntonstu]

10 miles a day keeps the doctor away!

We all agree that eating, sleeping, and exercise are necessary for good health.

IMHO If you have the time to eat and time to sleep and do not have the time to exercise, you need to rethink your lifestyle.

My BP went from 135/95 to 110/60.

If I can do it at 77, I believe that most people can also try it.

The knowledge that I do not hesitate to take a long ride every day gives me a lot of self-confidence.

 

[Edward1]

I have three of the Walmart batteries on order, for my 36 volt application.

My only question is thus far, do you just snip off the alligator clips to use, or did you also remove the small inline box (that may be current or polarity protectioon), and connect the batteries directly in series?

 

[Boyntonstu]

I have three of the Walmart batteries on order.

My only question is thus far, do you just snip off the alligator clips to use, or did you also remove the small inline box (that may be current or polarity protectioon), and connect the batteries directly parallel?

I did not use their wires. I wired 4 of them in series for 48 Volts.

Buy these connectors, cut the plastic in half, and use a propane torch to solder a wire:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pair-EC3-B...ttery-Motor-/172164287223?hash=item2815ca8af7

 

[Alan B]

Why cut the plastic? They should work the way they are, just wire them up in series.

 

[Edward1]

I understand what Boyntonstu meant, the one product photo (in product manual) shows the blue EC3 3.5mm, Gold Bullet Plug Male/Female Banana connector in the battery case.
So he created a new plug-in wire set with a fresh connector.

Very convenient.

 

[Alan B]

No need to cut the plastic, I made a 12V cable adapter to powerpoles for powering various devices. Cutting the connectors apart creates risk of shorting a battery or several. You can buy pigtailed connectors already soldered (with short wires) and just use crimp splices to put a harness together.

 

[Boyntonstu]

Why cut the plastic? They should work the way they are, just wire them up in series.

I found it easier and more flexible in arranging the four batteries in series when using a single wire to connect a + to a -.

If the plastic is not cut, you cannot run a single wire across the bike for a series connection.

Try it on paper and you will understand.

 

[Alan B]

If I understand correctly, you have created a dangerous cable (actually three of them). Each time you plug in these separated connectors you have the opportunity to make a mistake that will short one or more batteries and result in a plasma fireball. You have converted an engineered safety system to a less safe procedural process that carries additional risk. One day when you are tired or in a hurry you may destroy your harness, damage your batteries, void your warranties, burn your fingers and possibly even damage your eyes from this choice. If anyone else plugs it in wrong you will be responsible for having created the situation that led to their injuries.

For anyone else following this, consider NOT cutting the plastic connectors apart. It may require a few more inches of wire, but it will be a safer system. Better yet, forget these low-capacity, bulky and clunky car starting batteries and buy a safer Ebike battery with BMS and enjoy more range, less weight, less volume, easier mounting, charge, discharge and short protection, more convenience and greater overall safety. The 18650 based packs will also generally last two to five times longer and will likely, in the long run, be lower cost per watt-hour.

 

[Boyntonstu]

If I understand correctly, you have created a dangerous cable (actually three of them). Each time you plug in these separated connectors you have the opportunity to make a mistake that will short one or more batteries and result in a plasma fireball. You have converted an engineered safety system to a less safe procedural process that carries additional risk. One day when you are tired or in a hurry you may destroy your harness, damage your batteries, void your warranties, burn your fingers and possibly even damage your eyes from this choice. If anyone else plugs it in wrong you will be responsible for having created the situation that led to their injuries.

For anyone else following this, consider NOT cutting the plastic connectors apart. It may require a few more inches of wire, but it will be a safer system. Better yet, forget these low-capacity, bulky and clunky car starting batteries and buy a safer Ebike battery with BMS and enjoy more range, less weight, less volume, easier mounting, charge, discharge and short protection, more convenience and greater overall safety. The 18650 based packs will also generally last two to five times longer and will likely, in the long run, be lower cost per watt-hour.

I disagree, The plastic cables ends are sexed. If one end is + and the other end is - you cannot make a mistake. If you do not cut the plastic apart how will you get a series string? I have never removed a connection in 6 months.

These batteries get me as far as I need to go every day and they are at 3.9V after a ride. I am at 113 charge cycles. at 678 miles. If they get me 1,000 miles and then fail, I will get a new set for free or my money back. (within 2 years)

 

[Alan B]

If I understand correctly, you have created a dangerous cable (actually three of them). Each time you plug in these separated connectors you have the opportunity to make a mistake that will short one or more batteries and result in a plasma fireball. You have converted an engineered safety system to a less safe procedural process that carries additional risk. One day when you are tired or in a hurry you may destroy your harness, damage your batteries, void your warranties, burn your fingers and possibly even damage your eyes from this choice. If anyone else plugs it in wrong you will be responsible for having created the situation that led to their injuries.

For anyone else following this, consider NOT cutting the plastic connectors apart. It may require a few more inches of wire, but it will be a safer system. Better yet, forget these low-capacity, bulky and clunky car starting batteries and buy a safer Ebike battery with BMS and enjoy more range, less weight, less volume, easier mounting, charge, discharge and short protection, more convenience and greater overall safety. The 18650 based packs will also generally last two to five times longer and will likely, in the long run, be lower cost per watt-hour.

I disagree, The plastic cables ends are sexed. If one end is + and the other end is - you cannot make a mistake. If you do not cut the plastic apart how will you get a series string? I have never removed a connection in 6 months.

...

It is good that you are not regularly disconnecting and reconnecting these batteries, that reduces the risk of errors.

Cannot make a mistake? As soon as you cut apart the connector you have created the potential of shorting out one or more batteries when plugging in. You have a wire with a positive and a negative connector on the ends. This cable can be used to series connect or short, it fits either way. It can be plugged in correctly, or it can be plugged in wrong. One mistake is all it takes. At these power levels it probably won't be fatal, but if it gets into the eyes it can be very, very bad.

Below I show a simple series harness made with the connectors uncut, the way they are designed to be used. This avoids the problem. The connector for the controller should be of a different type for best safety. To keep the color codes straight in a series configuration use color tape or heatshrink bands next to the connector where the wire color doesn't match the connector polarity. So in situations where a black wire is the correct color on one end it connects to the positive terminal on the other end, on the positive terminal a red band would indicate this being a correct connection and it being a positive terminal on that connector. Alternately use some other color for the interconnect segments, though banding is still advised. As always, check the cable carefully before use as an incorrectly made cable can cause problems as well.

Not everyone is qualified to design and fabricate electrical cables. Cables should be made by a qualified technician and it is best if they are checked by a second person before use. Mistakes can be costly both in terms of equipment protection and personnel safety.

 

[Boyntonstu]

If I understand correctly, you have created a dangerous cable (actually three of them). Each time you plug in these separated connectors you have the opportunity to make a mistake that will short one or more batteries and result in a plasma fireball. You have converted an engineered safety system to a less safe procedural process that carries additional risk. One day when you are tired or in a hurry you may destroy your harness, damage your batteries, void your warranties, burn your fingers and possibly even damage your eyes from this choice. If anyone else plugs it in wrong you will be responsible for having created the situation that led to their injuries.

For anyone else following this, consider NOT cutting the plastic connectors apart. It may require a few more inches of wire, but it will be a safer system. Better yet, forget these low-capacity, bulky and clunky car starting batteries and buy a safer Ebike battery with BMS and enjoy more range, less weight, less volume, easier mounting, charge, discharge and short protection, more convenience and greater overall safety. The 18650 based packs will also generally last two to five times longer and will likely, in the long run, be lower cost per watt-hour.

I disagree, The plastic cables ends are sexed. If one end is + and the other end is - you cannot make a mistake. If you do not cut the plastic apart how will you get a series string? I have never removed a connection in 6 months.

...

It is good that you are not regularly disconnecting and reconnecting these batteries, that reduces the risk of errors.

Cannot make a mistake? As soon as you cut apart the connector you have created the potential of shorting out one or more batteries when plugging in. You have a wire with a positive and a negative connector on the ends. This cable can be used to series connect or short, it fits either way. It can be plugged in correctly, or it can be plugged in wrong. One mistake is all it takes. At these power levels it probably won't be fatal, but if it gets into the eyes it can be very, very bad.

Below I show a simple series harness made with the connectors uncut, the way they are designed to be used. This avoids the problem. The connector for the controller should be of a different type for best safety. To keep the color codes straight in a series configuration use color tape or heatshrink bands next to the connector where the wire color doesn't match the connector polarity. So in situations where a black wire is the correct color on one end it connects to the positive terminal on the other end, on the positive terminal a red band would indicate this being a correct connection and it being a positive terminal on that connector. Alternately use some other color for the interconnect segments, though banding is still advised. As always, check the cable carefully before use as an incorrectly made cable can cause problems as well.

Not everyone is qualified to design and fabricate electrical cables. Cables should be made by a qualified technician and it is best if they are checked by a second person before use. Mistakes can be costly both in terms of equipment protection and personnel safety.

First, I wanted to have their wires and connectors virgin for the warranty. No cutting away $150 worth of batteries in case they want them back.

Lets look at B1 and B2. B2 terminal 2 has a short wire going to B1 terminal 1. Shown are what appear are 2 spliced connections. I use a single wire without any splices. The plastic end cover that comes with the booster has a D shape for red or +. It is not possible to plug the positive D end into the negative side of the next series battery. My wires consist of a D + end and a round - end.

Then B3 terminal terminal 1 has a longer wire going to B3 Terminal 2, with 2 splices. And so on.

I count 8 required splices in your wiring and 0 in mine.

How can you short my wires? By taking a single wire and folding it back on itself to connect + to -. If I was that careless, I would not be 77 years old.

 

[Alan B]

I see five wires soldered to five connectors in my diagram. No splices. This is a schematic diagram, the software uses dots for connections between the wires and the diagram for the connector. This not a physical wire drawing. It is showing wires connected to pins. Anyone familiar with electronics should know this.

I made a connector for this battery to adapt the plug to PowerPoles. There are no splices, and the connector did not need to be cut up. It works fine and plugs straight into the Walmart pack.

The connectors you linked earlier (shown below) have no wires on them. Why cut them up? You suggested using a torch to solder them. Why would you then splice them? Why not solder them to the correct wires in the first place? It would be necessary to splice if pigtails were used, and that is possible, but I agree that avoiding splices is beneficial. However a good quality crimped barrel splice will not make much difference at these power levels, but I would avoid them as much as possible. Here it is possible to completely avoid them unless you wish to use pre-soldered connectors with pigtails. A side note here is that wire nuts are not a good choice for an ebike, they are not rated for use in a high vibration environment and are only intended for fixed use inside a protected electrical box with no strain on the wires. Just in case someone wanted to use wirenuts, which is not a great idea.

What you have done here is one way to do it, but it is not the best way or the safest way or even a good way. People reading the forum without a lot of experience should understand the alternatives and they can then choose what they do. If someone follows your advice and starts a fire, burns their fingers or damages their eyes it would be very unfortunate.

One day you might not look carefully enough. If you think you can never make an error, then you have already made one. We all make errors, at some time or other. There is no reason to hack up the connectors here and make a substandard harness. So why do it? Why advocate it? Why spend time defending it?

 

[nutnspecial]

Holy smokes you guys . Just post clear understandable info on what you did to wire the dam things without whatever this is.

Solder proper ends on bare cable with a torch to make a harness? Yep.
Criticized /warned about 'qualified technician' and quality control? Errrm. . .

 

[Boyntonstu]

I really don't know much about electronics. But I got my K2PTT Amateur radio ticket in 1955 and I built my CW transmitter. I was the first person to build a Silicon transistor for the Army Research Labs in the 1960's using my self made diffusion ovens. I have a U.S. Patent on a digitally tuned receiver. Another on a sputtered Tantalum high resistivity integrated circuit. BTW I also invented the multi-head sputtering machine. For a while my job was electronic reliability. However, I am sure that you have a lot that you can teach me about electronics that will be helpful in building a battery powered bike




I made a connector for this battery to adapt the plug to PowerPoles. There are no splices, and the connector did not need to be cut up. It works fine and plugs straight into the Walmart pack.

I am sure that what you made should work fine.


The connectors you linked earlier (shown below) have no wires on them. Why cut them up? You suggested using a torch to solder them. Why would you then splice them?

I have no splices except for the input and output.

However a good quality crimped barrel splice will not make much difference at these power levels, but I would avoid them as much as possible. Agree, I never use crimped connectors.


Here it is possible to completely avoid them unless you wish to use pre-soldered connectors with pigtails. A side note here is that wire nuts are not a good choice for an ebike, they are not rated for use in a high vibration environment and are only intended for fixed use inside a protected electrical box with no strain on the wires. Just in case someone wanted to use wirenuts, which is not a great idea. Works for me. I depends on the wire and how well you join them. Assume, 1 gets loose. What is the worse that could happen?

What you have done here is one way to do it, but it is not the best way or the safest way or even a good way. People reading the forum without a lot of experience should understand the alternatives and they can then choose what they do. If someone follows your advice and starts a fire, burns their fingers or damages their eyes it would be very unfortunate.

Yep. See my $100 elevator video that has been safe for well over 10 years.

Would you consider it safe?

[youtube]-fKyZ9v_65o[/youtube]


`

 

[Alan B]

The quoting on the above post was destroyed, so it is unclear who said what. I know, but few others will bother to figure it out.

Clearly some folks are more concerned with cost reduction than safety.

I hope I've been clear enough here. The schematic should be the best guide, I'm not going to build a harness to take photos of. Few ebike riders would be satisfied with the limited capacity and resulting range this thread's bulky Walmart pack provides. These days you can buy a lawnmower or weed whacker battery with more energy, and no need of making a series wiring harness.

Best of luck with your project. You might keep records of the led indicators vs miles and see if you can spot the reduction in capacity as the batteries age. That's not the best indicator, but it is all you have.

 

[DAND214]

Come on guys, I didn't think it was that time of the month.
Four pages later and your telling him how to do it?
I see it either way. Both ways would work but it's too late to change it now!

Dan

 

[Boyntonstu]

Come on guys, I didn't think it was that time of the month.
Four pages later and your telling him how to do it?
I see it either way. Both ways would work but it's too late to change it now!

Dan

Good advice. Thanks.

If I had purchased a $20,000 elevator, I would be less proud of it than my $100 elevator.

My hobby is to build something that works, is safe, and at minimum cost.

 

[RageNR]

Glad to have accidentally stumbled on this thread. I too had the same idea of using these packs to build an ebike battery.

The little secret that you guys were not aware of is that WallyWorld clearanced these Christmas items out a few months ago for $21, then $9, then $5 a piece.
You heard that right... $5 F I V E FRIGGIN dollars.
I have taken one apart already. It is indeed a 3s1p 4000mAh 11.1v pack inside. Brick style, not 18650s.

Now how jelly would you all have been if this guy had built a 60v 5s5p pack for $135 ??
And these are "jump-starter" packs made to jump a car. Claims 400amp, but in my use I found it to be closer to 250amp. (seat of the pants, gut feeling)
So being PESTimistic, lets say these could only achieve 100amp. That's 60v pack at 100amp. I think we have a win here....

So what do you all think now, eh?
That's what I though.


And no, I was not able to get enough to build my ebike pack that I wanted. I only was able to obtain 3, yet I needed 25. Oh well, was nice to dream.
On to the next revelation.

 

[Boyntonstu]

Glad to have accidentally stumbled on this thread. I too had the same idea of using these packs to build an ebike battery.

The little secret that you guys were not aware of is that WallyWorld clearanced these Christmas items out a few months ago for $21, then $9, then $5 a piece.
You heard that right... $5 F I V E FRIGGIN dollars.
I have taken one apart already. It is indeed a 3s1p 4000mAh 11.1v pack inside. Brick style, not 18650s.

Now how jelly would you all have been if this guy had built a 60v 5s5p pack for $135 ??
And these are "jump-starter" packs made to jump a car. Claims 400amp, but in my use I found it to be closer to 250amp. (seat of the pants, gut feeling)
So being PESTimistic, lets say these could only achieve 100amp. That's 60v pack at 100amp. I think we have a win here....

So what do you all think now, eh?
That's what I though.


And no, I was not able to get enough to build my ebike pack that I wanted. I only was able to obtain 3, yet I needed 25. Oh well, was nice to dream.
On to the next revelation.

Since this is a discontinued item, it will be interesting to see what happens when I return them for a refund/replacement under their 2 year warranty. I expect a refund if no stock is available. I am fairly sure that another booster will be marketed. At any rate, my bike is at 700 miles. It does my 12 miles per day quite well. A 6 miler in the morning, a charge, and another 6 in the evening. In a month or so I will give a 1,000 mile report, (166 charge cycles). I can go almost 23 miles if I let the cells drop to 3.5 Volts. I like keeping their low point at abut 3.9 V.

If only I could have bought a dozen at 5 bucks a piece!

 

[RageNR]

Since this is a discontinued item, it will be interesting to see what happens when I return them for a refund/replacement under their 2 year warranty. I expect a refund if no stock is available.

Yeah, don't expect a replacement. Walmart will only refund you with a store credit for the amount you paid. You won't get the money you paid for the warranty back though.
That said, there MIGHT be a replacement available in 2yrs time. These things are still on Walmart.com for $35. There is even a 2 back available. Wally does like to sit on stock till it is absolutely worthless. YMMV.

I am assuming that you purchased the extended warranty? As far as I can tell, these units came with zero warranty from the manufacturer. It is not mentioned anywhere on the package at all, or in the documentation. I even called the manufacture (EverStart) and asked them about it. You know what they told me? They said that they were NOT the maunf for these packs and they do not know who made them. If you have not noticed yet, there is no Model or Serial #s on these things.
So Walmart basically slapped a name on a product and stuffed it on the store holiday endcaps.
Did you expect anything less from WallWarts? For $5 a pop, I do not really care. If I had paid $30-40, you bet your a$$ I would have made a scene over this. Truly pisses me off what WalMart tries to get by with.
And when I was trying to hunt down more of these, many of the stores claimed they did not have them in stock when the website, and in-store systems showed they clearly did. Come to find out later, many of the stores pulled them from the floor and shipped them back. The hoarders that were able to buy big bulks of them before that have put them up for sale on Cragislist and Ebay.

 

[Boyntonstu]

Since this is a discontinued item, it will be interesting to see what happens when I return them for a refund/replacement under their 2 year warranty. I expect a refund if no stock is available.

Yeah, don't expect a replacement. Walmart will only refund you with a store credit for the amount you paid. You won't get the money you paid for the warranty back though.
That said, there MIGHT be a replacement available in 2yrs time. These things are still on Walmart.com for $35. There is even a 2 back available. Wally does like to sit on stock till it is absolutely worthless. YMMV.

I am assuming that you purchased the extended warranty? As far as I can tell, these units came with zero warranty from the manufacturer. It is not mentioned anywhere on the package at all, or in the documentation. I even called the manufacture (EverStart) and asked them about it. You know what they told me? They said that they were NOT the maunf for these packs and they do not know who made them. If you have not noticed yet, there is no Model or Serial #s on these things.
So Walmart basically slapped a name on a product and stuffed it on the store holiday endcaps.
Did you expect anything less from WallWarts? For $5 a pop, I do not really care. If I had paid $30-40, you bet your a$$ I would have made a scene over this. Truly pisses me off what WalMart tries to get by with.
And when I was trying to hunt down more of these, many of the stores claimed they did not have them in stock when the website, and in-store systems showed they clearly did. Come to find out later, many of the stores pulled them from the floor and shipped them back. The hoarders that were able to buy big bulks of them before that have put them up for sale on Cragislist and Ebay.

It all boils down to 12 bucks for 2 years use of batteries. So even at $5 each, with the $3 warranty it would also cost $12.

I went a little further and I called the customer service number listed at the bottom of the instructions.

FWIW They gave me a China number, a dead end.

 

[RageNR]

It all boils down to 12 bucks for 2 years use of batteries. So even at $5 each, with the $3 warranty it would also cost $12.

HA! That is funny. Never even thought about that. I would be afraid of them denying the warranty claim if you brought in more than 2 at a time. WalMart employees/managers make up the rules as they go. Whatever fits their agenda at the time, that is what they stick to. I tried to get a replacement for a faulty electronic that had a 90day return policy. Manager lied and said that ALL electronics have 15day return window. And mind you, this was on day 16. They refused to budge so I just went to a more helpful store. Like I said before YMMV.

I went a little further and I called the customer service number listed at the bottom of the instructions. FWIW They gave me a China number, a dead end.

Now that is interesting. When I called (twice I think) I was told that they had nothing to do with it and did not have any information.
So they lied to one of us, for certain. Are you sure that the number is even legit? or did they just give you some random digits and tell you "Have a nice day" ?

 

[Alan B]

I bought a dry charge AGM battery for my ATV at Walmart, to have on hand for the inevitable. A few months later when I opened the box to use it I discovered that there was a part missing. The special funnel array that pierces the acid bottles and fills the cells had been stolen from the box before I purchased it. It wasn't obvious that this was missing until you went to use the battery. I took it back and they argued with me in customer service for nearly an hour before they gave me a new battery. They tried to give me a funnel from a new battery, but it would not fit, and that would just transfer the problem to the next customer. Perhaps that's what happened to the box I bought. I didn't get mad, just patiently waited until they resolved the issue, but clearly they wanted me and their problem to go away. I had the receipt and all paperwork, this was unopened product that was missing parts.

Check your stuff carefully and don't assume they will make good on it later, warranty or not. Warranties are very profitable, rarely do they pay out.

So even the manufacturer denies making these batteries. How interesting.

 

[Boyntonstu]

It all boils down to 12 bucks for 2 years use of batteries. So even at $5 each, with the $3 warranty it would also cost $12.

HA! That is funny. Never even thought about that. I would be afraid of them denying the warranty claim if you brought in more than 2 at a time. WalMart employees/managers make up the rules as they go. Whatever fits their agenda at the time, that is what they stick to. I tried to get a replacement for a faulty electronic that had a 90day return policy. Manager lied and said that ALL electronics have 15day return window. And mind you, this was on day 16. They refused to budge so I just went to a more helpful store. Like I said before YMMV.

I went a little further and I called the customer service number listed at the bottom of the instructions. FWIW They gave me a China number, a dead end.

Now that is interesting. When I called (twice I think) I was told that they had nothing to do with it and did not have any information.
So they lied to one of us, for certain. Are you sure that the number is even legit? or did they just give you some random digits and tell you "Have a nice day" ?

I dealt with this warranty company in the past.

They are independent of Walmart.

Within 2 years, after I accidentally dropped a laptop onto my concrete garage floor, I was sent 2 replacements.

No hassle, and they paid postage both ways.

They must make a fortune off of Walmart customers and therefore I am confident that my $150 investment is safe.

Experience is the best teacher.