(Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no problems

[reagle]

The testing process is extremely time consuming (to do a good test). I tried coming up with faster measurments, but none of them seemed to be very reliable. If there was a way to slam the pack with 100A charge and discharge currents while measuring all the stick voltages, that would probably be good, but would require quite a tester.

I'd really like it if there was a source for new cell modules (sticks) that are OEM quality. I wonder where the Hybridbatteryrepair guy was getting his from since he went out of business. I know they were from China. Hmmm... maybe they didn't last and that's why he went under?

I hesitate to dump $2500 into a car with 150k miles on it. My luck and something else would fail.

I've been talking to a reputable battery company about tooling for those sticks.They can easily supply fresh Panasonic or any other cells cells, welded in whatever configuration we need them. Step #1 though is getting some samples to them so they can tell me what the NRE would be. Problem is- suddenly I can't find single sticks (even dead ones) to send them. Buying a full pack for that purpose is a bit too much, and yanking one from wife's car is not good idea either Are the HCH and HCHII sticks the same? And does anybody have the dead ones they could spare?

 

[dumbass]

I have an '06 Toyota Highlander hybrid (for those who don't know it, it's a mid sized SUV). It'shas around 45k miles on it now. It's basicly a big brother system to the Toyota Prius. It basicly gets about the same mileage weather local criving or on the highway. In it's prime it got 26 to almost 30mpg. I've noticed that it's been dropping though and is now dow to 24 to 26MPG. Still not bad for a mid sized SUV. When we first got it my wife was filling up with gas and a guy with a dupicate but non-highbrid ask about her gas mileage. She told him around 28MPG. He responded "holy C--p I only get 17 to 19MPG.

The Highlander highbrid has the same V6 engine as the standard model but with the addition of the electric motors (3...1 main motor and 2 smaller motors for the all wheel drive on the read tires). Like most (ALL) Toyotas we have had a handfull of recalls. But none of them were related to the highbrid system. We had to have a power window switch replaced when it was still new. Since then we have only done oil changed every 5k miles. For some reason it eats batteries though. I'm talking about the standard engine battery. It's now on it's third and if the car isn't used every few days the battery is dead. Must be something that is drawing high power or a short. It started this problem after it was out of the 36 month waranty (the highbrid system is a 10 year 100k mile waranty). The dealer said it could take several hours to find the problem (if they ever would) at $125 per hour. I told them screw it, I'd rather keep replacingthe battery. BTW, if the gas engine doesn't start the electric motor won't ether. Not even if it has a fully charged battery....Dumb!! Would be nice if you could at least get off the highway if the engine failed.

I noticed the e-motor will stay engaged and run with the gas engine a good part of the time. Even at highway speeds if the pack is fully charged.

Bob

 

[dnmun]

.

 

[dumbass]

sounds like a diode in the alternator is leaking. the shop shoulda been able to diagnose that with no problems. you can check it too. or see if you can isolate the current draw by pulling fuses and measuring the current flowing through the fuse with your ammeter when the circuit has nothing active on it.

i am gonna bid on a 2005 civic hybrid in about 10 days. it is at the insurance auction with no body damage. wheels were stripped off and a small dent midway in the front drivers side fender.

so the car was totaled by the insurance company. no keys, no wheels, not gonna burn much gas that way either. hope i can get it for around $3k.

Yes, I agree but I'm to lazy to worry about it. And it's not as high a priority as my bikes and cycle. And the car is a no fun project. Good luck at the auction...... When my 2008 250 scooter was totaled last year hardly a scratch on it it sold at auction for only $275.

Bob

 

[Toshi]

Cheap solution for the Highlander Hybrid's 12V battery going flat: $22 battery tender. Here's the one I use on my motorcycle during bicycle-heavy weeks (formerly on my car, back when I had it, heh):

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0123-Junior-Charger/dp/B000CITK8S

 

[dnmun]

.

 

[fechter]

I've been talking to a reputable battery company about tooling for those sticks.They can easily supply fresh Panasonic or any other cells cells, welded in whatever configuration we need them. Step #1 though is getting some samples to them so they can tell me what the NRE would be. Problem is- suddenly I can't find single sticks (even dead ones) to send them. Buying a full pack for that purpose is a bit too much, and yanking one from wife's car is not good idea either Are the HCH and HCHII sticks the same? And does anybody have the dead ones they could spare?

Dang, I just recycled a big pile of dead sticks. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the HCH and HCHII sticks are the same, just a different number of them in the pack. Gen 1 Insight sticks are same as HCH. The sticks come with PTC temperature sensors on each cell, but these can be recycled from the donor pack.
The Honda sticks have very beefy interconnects between cells and special threaded 'nuts' on each end. Overall length would need to be within a fairly tight tolerance. The nut on one end is hexagonal, one on the other end is square (this prevents installing backwards).

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Cheap solution for the Highlander Hybrid's 12V battery going flat: $22 battery tender. Here's the one I use on my motorcycle during bicycle-heavy weeks (formerly on my car, back when I had it, heh):

Overkill.

I'd use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/BATTERY-CUTOFF-SWITCH-BOAT-RACECAR/dp/B001HSBW74

BATTERY CUTOFF SWITCH CAR RV BOAT RACECAR ATV CUT OFF

Price: $7.76 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25.

 

[dumbass]

Hi,

Cheap solution for the Highlander Hybrid's 12V battery going flat: $22 battery tender. Here's the one I use on my motorcycle during bicycle-heavy weeks (formerly on my car, back when I had it, heh):

Overkill.

I'd use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/BATTERY-CUTOFF-SWITCH-BOAT-RACECAR/dp/B001HSBW74

BATTERY CUTOFF SWITCH CAR RV BOAT RACECAR ATV CUT OFF

Price: $7.76 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25.

Thanks Mitch, I agree and I did think of doing something like that. The only problem is the wife has to remember to tell me she's not going to use that car for a few days. And of course I would be the one going out to turn it on/off for her. Pluse this is one of those cars that doesn't remember the radio settings if it looses power. I bought a trikle charger a while back for is so I may just wire it in and give her a plug hanging out the grill.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[TylerDurden]

Thanks Mitch, I agree and I did think of doing something like that. The only problem is the wife has to remember to tell me she's not going to use that car for a few days. And of course I would be the one going out to turn it on/off for her. Pluse this is one of those cars that doesn't remember the radio settings if it looses power. I bought a trikle charger a while back for is so I may just wire it in and give her a plug hanging out the grill.

Solar panel instead?

 

[reagle]

I am late as usually

Dang, I just recycled a big pile of dead sticks. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the HCH and HCHII sticks are the same, just a different number of them in the pack. Gen 1 Insight sticks are same as HCH. The sticks come with PTC temperature sensors on each cell, but these can be recycled from the donor pack.
The Honda sticks have very beefy interconnects between cells and special threaded 'nuts' on each end. Overall length would need to be within a fairly tight tolerance. The nut on one end is hexagonal, one on the other end is square (this prevents installing backwards).

The HCHII has two 6-cell sticks welded together in a U -shape. yeah, the fit would have to be identical to the OEM to fit- that's why my contact is looking for samples. I guess it's back to fishing on ebay..

 

[reagle]

Thanks Mitch, I agree and I did think of doing something like that. The only problem is the wife has to remember to tell me she's not going to use that car for a few days. And of course I would be the one going out to turn it on/off for her. Pluse this is one of those cars that doesn't remember the radio settings if it looses power. I bought a trikle charger a while back for is so I may just wire it in and give her a plug hanging out the grill.

Solar panel instead?

A few people over on greenhybird/cleanmpg forums did exactly that - helps minimize the load on the main battery that has to charge the little one

 

[peterperkins]

This might interest HCH1 owners

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/other-honda-hybrids-discussion/21887-imac-c-hch1-civic.html

Now working on the HCH. Gives you that manual IMA control

 

[fechter]

This might interest HCH1 owners

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/other-honda-hybrids-discussion/21887-imac-c-hch1-civic.html

Now working on the HCH. Gives you that manual IMA control

Thanks for the update! You guys have been busy over there. Excellent work.

 

[peterperkins]

Even better now and allows you to disable assist/regen at will as well as command 4 different levels of assist/regen.

New tiny pcb fits into a diddy box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O4C2grzTII

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/other-honda-hybrids-discussion/21887-imac-c-hch1-civic.html

 

[fechter]

Excellent! you guys rock.

Now I just need to figure out where to get a decent battery. The last pack rebuild didn't last too long and it's throwing codes again.

 

[steveo]

Hey fechter

I have battery sticks if your are interested for sale...

I sold some .. buy have about 15 sticks avaliable to rebuild...

I will capacity test & resistance test them to make sure there good for ya


they came out of a parts honda insight, same sticks in your car... these are the new yellow sticks... pack was dated march 2009 replaced by honda!!

-steveo

 

[andrew.box]

Excellent! you guys rock.

Now I just need to figure out where to get a decent battery. The last pack rebuild didn't last too long and it's throwing codes again.

Let me know what you end up doing, I'm in the same boat. Rebuilt a pack for my wife's HCH and it went a couple months before throwing codes again. A long grid charge will turn the IMA light back off for a while, but it always comes back. Do you know anything about the different pack options that Re-volt is selling? Looks like the top of the line pack is using all new cells, which would be awesome.

Too bad to hear about hybridbattery.com, I know they were doing OK for a while but I started seeing some bad experiences being posted over on Insight central. Things must have fallen apart for him somehow.

 

[peterperkins]

Speak to Eli at http://www.bumblebeebatteries.com/

 

[fechter]

Speak to Eli at http://www.bumblebeebatteries.com/

Good tip, thanks.

I found another source here: http://www.adoptapart.com/
They are offering packs rebuilt with new "better cells". They report a significant performance improvement due the new cells having less sag and lower internal resistance.

 

[andrew.box]

"The Nation's most advanced and capable Hybrid vehcile recycler!"

Maybe so, but they misspelled vehicle. It's always good to see more sources for early generation honda hybrid batteries though. These cars are starting to get old.

 

[fechter]

Update:
The Civic has 161K miles now and for the first time the main pack didn't have enough juice to start the engine and the little 12v backup starter kicked in for the first time. I've been driving it with the idiot lights on for over 6 months. I grid charged the pack overnight and reset the IMA computer and the next morning it was able to start and run OK. Boost and regen are both pathetic at this point though.

I'm getting ready to spend the bucks on a new pack, even though putting over $2k into a car this old still sort of bothers me. I figure it's still way cheaper than an equivalent new (used) car and I at least I know the full history of it and still like the way it drives. If the engine or trans blows, those are actually cheaper than a new pack (but a lot more work to install).

I'm going to get one of the 'Better Battery' packs from Eli or the equivalent.

 

[swbluto]

The electric motor adds power during acceleration and hill climbing, and regenerates during braking or going downhill. The gas engine is a 1.3L tiny little thing (smaller than many motorcycles). Without the electric assist, it's incredibly gutless on takeoff. The combination of the small ICE and electric boost gives the improvement in fuel economy. It also has auto stop, when you come to a stop, the ICE shuts down and restarts the engine as soon as you take your foot off the brake.

Yes it is front wheel drive, transversely mounted. Mine has a CVT transmission, but they also made a stick shift model. I suppose you could rip out the ICE and replace it with a big electric motor, but I don't think the Civic would be any better than a lot of other cars to make a conversion. Personally, I think an old CRX would be much better.

The CRX had some great aerodynamics, that I agree with. But, if I were converting something, I'd definitely want to convert the acabion. They're hard to find used, though...

 

[peterperkins]

If you get a new MaxIma pack then you might want to unleash some more power

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/other-honda-hybrids-discussion/24340-hch1-inside-ipu.html

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/16206-inside-g1-mdm-more.html

Simple resistor current increase hacks to get the IGBT squealing!!

 

[fechter]

If you get a new MaxIma pack then you might want to unleash some more power

Yes, I was looking at that. I'm very tempted since my Civic has the latest software that neuters the IMA system. Even to get it back to the original level would be nice.

I'm still waiting for some funds to transfer but hope to have a new pack in a week or so.