waste of time. don't bother.

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Don't try them DH, you'd be lucky if they last half way down the track.
Good for roadie wheels, but very far from being the "strongest bicycle rim"
 
Stiffest maybe? And what about durability? Should be very high. They look awesome, would greatly enhance and complete the appearance of a wooden bicycle, and of course termites could not be a problem. Probably similar to synthetic gunstock material, which transmits felt recoil to the shoulder very efficiently. 8)
 
I have seen steel copies/ mimics, of these sold from china, they advertised them as 'training wheels', they've also got wheels with full covers?

Spokes are a weakpoint in the wheel.

The fingers said:
Stiffest maybe? And what about durability? Should be very high. They look awesome, would greatly enhance and complete the appearance of a wooden bicycle, and of course termites could not be a problem. Probably similar to synthetic gunstock material, which transmits felt recoil to the shoulder very efficiently. 8)
 
silverrich1 said:
Spokes are a weakpoint in the wheel.

True, but that's not because they aren't strong enough, it's because they flex in use and so fatigue. That flexing is what makes a spoked wheel a more comfortable ride, although it does absorb energy and increase losses slightly. If you take the flex out of the wheel then you probably need to put it back somewhere else, at least for comfortable road use, either by running a more flexible tyre at a lower pressure or perhaps by adding suspension, both of which will absorb power much as the spokes do.

Spoke strength, stiffness and fatigue is something that seems to frequently be misunderstood here. Fitting heavy gauge spokes may well cause them to fail sooner, as the added stiffness can actually increase the fatigue loading at the attachments at either end. The analogy is a bit like a tree falling over in a gale and a blade of grass just bending. Bike rims are generally unhappy with spokes thicker than about 13g, yet many people (including a lot of ready-made Far Eastern hub motor wheels) fit 12g spokes. The end result is probably a less reliable wheel.

A well built wheel with 13 or 14g spokes, properly tensioned, will be pretty strong and reliable, as long as it's looked after and the spoke tension checked regularly. Such a wheel may well outlast a rigid CF wheel, as it will be less prone to impact failure.

The racing guys use rigid wheels because they give a slight efficiency advantage, especially disc wheels with their lower drag and lower flexure losses. That doesn't necessarily mean they are always reliable and will last well, though.
 
I was looking through the various types of motors out there, and, you've really gotta study / know your stuff to pick out the right motors for your projects.
For example, http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/566625770/electric_motorcycle_hub_motor.html?s=p This is a motor that I see a lot of on the chinese market, yet if you look closely, it has a planetary gear installed, and this is possibly not the best option, if we are looking for direct drive motors with minimal wear...

Another example of crap motor is this one, http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/518459337-500W-10inch-Brushless-Hub-Motor-for-electric-scooter-motorcycle-wholesalers.html

it is basically the same motor, yet, the windings are significantly lighter by comparison, and the price reflects this...

I'm trying to find something that'll fit in the 100mm -> 135mm bracket, to fit onto bicycles, preferably a manufacturer who's willing to install motorcycle-grade wider 50mm magnets and stators into a slimmer casing. So far, I've found http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/518461903-4000W-12inch-Brushless-Hub-Motor-for-electric-scooter-motorcycle-wholesalers.html whom I am discussing this with. I am hoping to find a motor, fully airmail shipped, for $350 by the end of this, that has a dropout measurement of 110mm.

I've found one possible option, it weighs right, seems to have the copper weight and, it comes with a tyre
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/576805933-16-inch-500w-hub-motor-for-scooter-rear-wheel-version-wholesalers.html
has anyone had any success?
 
Do you know what type of dirt bike fork will fit this 200mm dropout? (will run 100v 500A controller)
This one is 25kg http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/518482374-6000W-13inch-Brushless-Hub-Motor-for-electric-scooter-motorcycle-wholesalers.html
cwah said:
My Gosh, the motor you shown weight 18kg! heavier than the bike alone :lol:
 
Do you have to use a bulky hub motor? Why not use a lighter motor with a chain to the rear wheel?
 
well, who would want something that overheats? I prefer using a heavy hub motor, it's a lot better than using something that would overheat...

bearing said:
Do you have to use a bulky hub motor? Why not use a lighter motor with a chain to the rear wheel?
 
silverrich1 said:
well, who would want something that overheats? I prefer using a heavy hub motor, it's a lot better than using something that would overheat...

What's the link between weight and overheating? Doesn't seem logical to me, as motor weight isn't representative of efficiency (in fact it often means the opposite).

Motor efficiency (and hence ability to handle a lot of power without getting too hot) depends on the quality of the materials used (particularly the stator laminations) the motor design, and the efficiency of the windings (in terms of using the least amount of copper for the required amp turns and winding resistance).

Also, a heavier hub motor will waste a lot of power in being accelerated and decelerated all the time. The rotational inertia of the hub is important for efficiency, in the same way that lightweight wheels and flywheel are important for good race car performance and efficiency.
 
silverrich1 said:
100v 500A controller
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/518482374-6000W-13inch-Brushless-Hub-Motor-for-electric-scooter-motorcycle-wholesalers.html

If you put 50 kW into that motor you will probably get only about 25kW out and burn the motor some seconds later. Why not use an Agni and get 25kW out with 28kW put in?
 
I'm pretty sure you understood my logical jump between stator width, copper windings, and thickness of covers to dissipate heat, and I do not appreciate your pernicious mockery of people's 'assumptions' and my 'generalization' of weight. Heat transfer is calculated by q = -K i ΔTi
Another inherent thermal property of a material is its thermal resistance, I think you know that judging by the heat coefficiency present in '-K' already you can pretty much estimate that thermal conductivity is relative to the specific thickness of the covers of the motor. I also think you know that at the power levels we intend to use these motors, they wouldn't last very long at the overrated power many of us here on the forums apply them to.

Strictly, the weight of motor is a usual sign showing that the motor's capability suits the power levels we wish to apply them to much more than a 500watt continuous rated motor that reaches it's efficiency due to it's high kv and poor copper wire.

Also, I think you further understand that, by using a motor that has been engineered specifically for these high speeds, they are tailored to withstand the Manufacturing Engineering principles (ICS 25), they are also built for road use above 60mph.

kindly refer to this table

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/thrcn.html


Jeremy Harris said:
silverrich1 said:
well, who would want something that overheats? I prefer using a heavy hub motor, it's a lot better than using something that would overheat...

What's the link between weight and overheating? Doesn't seem logical to me, as motor weight isn't representative of efficiency (in fact it often means the opposite).

Motor efficiency (and hence ability to handle a lot of power without getting too hot) depends on the quality of the materials used (particularly the stator laminations) the motor design, and the efficiency of the windings (in terms of using the least amount of copper for the required amp turns and winding resistance).

Also, a heavier hub motor will waste a lot of power in being accelerated and decelerated all the time. The rotational inertia of the hub is important for efficiency, in the same way that lightweight wheels and flywheel are important for good race car performance and efficiency.
 
silverrich1 said:
I do not appreciate your pernicious mockery of people's 'assumptions' and my 'generalization' of weight.

Not mockery at all, it was a genuine question, asked honestly and with interest in your logic for selecting on the basis of total motor weight, nothing more.

I'll leave you to it.
 
silverrich1 said:
bearing said:
Do you have to use a bulky hub motor? Why not use a lighter motor with a chain to the rear wheel?
well, who would want something that overheats? I prefer using a heavy hub motor, it's a lot better than using something that would overheat...
But the torque load at the motor will be less...............
 
These motors come in optional 200mm or 150mm dropouts... 150mm like the cromotors..

Emoto said:
silverrich1 said:
I was looking through the various types ofmotors out there, and, you've really gotta study / know your stuff to pick out the right motors for your projects.

Interesting, but two much of a gamble for most from china
But id like to see someone take a punt on one of these http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...motorcycle-High-Quality/313864_575032775.html from Leo, looks like a cromotor, got a contact from leo he said the magnet width was 50mm.
 
Dear forum members

I have had a fascinating experience dealing with china these last two weeks have passed along rather quickly as I awaited rather impatiently to receive my 7s3p a123 modules. I am happy to state that my experience with xin wang's a123 cells proved to be immaculate. She was helpful till the last, helping with the bank transfer issue (where there was an issue with the bank company name), specifying cell types, sending me proper cells instead of the worse cells mentioned by some users.
On the whole, the result was good. I received two 7s3p modules, both measuring a voltage of 23volts upon arrival, both required 25AH of bulk charge, and then a further 3-7AH balance charge to have the two packs fully balance charged to 50.4volts 60AH.

COSMETIC CONDITION OF THE UNITS

The units arrived to me with minimal markings. Upon closer inspection there were no hairline cracks visible in the plastics, the unit had some indentations due to the battery's handling process of removal, where I assume upon inspection that the battery modules were housed in a thick plastic that required some crowbar work for complete removal. There are some minor indentations on the aluminium fins on the left hand side,some sticky (yellow) tape on the side covers which are made of plastic with six hex nuts holding them in place. These plastic side covers, cover the top of the laser-welded interconnections of the 3parallel assembly.
The unit further has some scratch markings to the rear of the cover assembly, there are some minor scratches on the sides of the unit and these require some straightening, but should not affect the cell's performance as they appear to be merely cosmetic.

INSPECTION OF INDIVIDUAL INTERNAL RESISTANCE OF THE CELLS
The cells hold an internal resistance of 0.03ohms. The resistance of the modules suggests that they may be cycled, as some of the parallel cells showed significant charge difference, so judging by the state of charge formula for the estimation of cell charge a relationship exists between the open circuit voltage measured and the SOC. I further moved to measure the SOC under load conditions and the state variable approach with the help of an ABC-150 power processing system used at university. According to the thevenin power model, I used the figures from terminal voltage of the battery, internal resistance (Rb) + VOC + RC/RD) and the polarization capacitance(C).
I did this to minimize the errors between measured voltage and current data from the battery, and the estimated terminal voltage as obtained from the linear terminal voltage equation of the battery.

The overall chemical reaction taking place is measured by using the formula PBO2 + PB + 2H2SO4 = 2PBSO4 + 2H2O
It is so, that the electrode reactions show that maximum open circuit voltage developed by a123 prismatic pouch cells of the model AMP20H is 3.32V as it is a normal practice to connect these cells in series or parallel to acquire the required battery voltage.
Instead of the traditional spiral wound positive and negative electrode separators made of pure lead grids mixed with lead oxide, these nanoparticle a123 pouch cells were designed with phosphorous compounds to permeate the proper active materials when the cell receives and emits it's first high charge and discharge.
The plastic internal container acts as an isolator from the nanoconductors and fibrous separators, instead of glass a carbon mixture is used as a semiconductor separator.
The cells have the attributes of the high quality properties of the more expensive A123 pouch cells of which I have purchased one or two of. The electrolytic resistance, plate resistance, and fluid resistance vary similarly on an oscilloscope upon over-discharge resistance.

POLARIZATION CAPACITANCE
During the engineering test, the battery's temperature, electrical capacitance, were consistent with the load which was continuous drop in battery capacity, based on peukert's formula of T = C / In (or C = T * In)

I cannot comment on the internal assembly of the batteries, however externally, the units seem to react positively to overload discharges, and only time can tell whether there will appear any shortening in battery cycle life from a possible defect in one of the cells, however so far, it is mentioned that there may have been a mechanical failure with the module assembly itself rather than the cell build quality. I have released the aluminium ties around the top and bottom of the cells leaving more room for the cells from compression, I will be adding some electrical separators between the short tabs.

IMAGES




I attach some photographs of the modules below, both of which, as it stands, are being bulk-charged with 25 large (6A+) laptop chargers.
 
Here you go Nader/Novembersierra78, a link to the London Electronics College website. Try BTEC level 1 Electrical Engineering, maybe in a few years you will have a proper qualification instead of pretending to have qualifications from MIT, and you won't be making a fool of yourself by going online and copy-pasting a load of shit and pretending to have money for batteries, you broke-as-a-joke Walter Mitty you.

http://www.lec.org.uk/FILES/L1_CENG.HTM#TOP
 
What a plagiarizing, day-dreaming bell-end.

http://www.nadersadek.co.uk/

"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules, Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last." Nader Sadek

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
 
silverrich1 said:
The overall chemical reaction taking place is measured by using the formula PBO2 + PB + 2H2SO4 = 2PBSO4 + 2H2O
It is so, that the electrode reactions show that maximum open circuit voltage developed by a123 prismatic pouch cells of the model AMP20H is 3.32V as it is a normal practice to connect these cells in series or parallel to acquire the required battery voltage.
<snip>
Instead of the traditional spiral wound positive and negative electrode separators made of pure lead grids mixed with lead oxide, these nanoparticle a123 pouch cells were designed with phosphorous compounds to permeate the proper active materials when the cell receives and emits it's first high charge and discharge.

Really? I had no idea they were still using lead-acid in those things. Fascinating. I had thought they were using Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistries.

Please pardon my apparent sarcasm, I would like to understand this new A123 battery you have; I don't recall reading about it in any of their literature.


@The Mighty Volt: If you are implying that this member is the same as the previous member novembersierra28, I would like to see the evidence for this (in a separate thread in toxic discussions to keep it out of non-member and search-engine view), because if it is true then it is grounds for permanent removal of both of the membernames (and any future incarnations) as having multiple accounts is not permitted. Plagiarism is not desirable either, although I do not recall it being specifically against the rules I would still remove or at the very least final-warning a member for doing so. If you have evidence of that I would also like to see that in the same separate thread in OTD.
 
Overall it's not even a good wind up, as others have noted the idiotic errors that give the game away are so blindingly obvious that I doubt any here would be fooled for a second. The biggest give away is the one AW picked up on, the reference to the charge reaction is for a wet lead acid cell.......................
 
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