What bike and kit should I buy

[wesnewell]

Before asking any questions, please read this first. It will save everyone a lot of time, including you.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66302

What Bike should I get to convert to an ebike?

A steel frame bike will work best. And these are usually the cheaper ones. Steel dropouts to be specific. They make aluminum frame FS bikes with steel swing arms and these will work just as good as an all steel framed bike. In fact that's what I've been riding the last 3 years and ~12K miles. What you are concerned with is the bike frame, and not so much the components that can easily be replaced. I prefer V brakes, but if you prefer disc, then might have a harder time finding an appropriate bike. And V brakes work a lot better than those little 160mm disc brakes. For a comfortable ride, you may end up replacing the handlebars, seat, and even the stem to get a proper fit. You'll almost certainly want to replace the tires, and possibly even the wheels. If you decide on a bike with aluminum dropouts, you will need 2 torque arms/plated for it. 26" is the most common kit size, so 26" bike has many kits tires , etc. available for it. Other sizes are beginning to become more available, but you won't have a problem finding a kit for a 26" bike.

What motor kit should I get?

For 90% are more people I'd recommend a 48V 1000W rear direct drive kit. Used stock, it should last almost forever. Provide more than enough power and speed for most people. And they are usually the best bang for the buck. And with a controller and battery upgrade, you can get a lot more power and speed out of the motor. I've been running mine on 88.8V 40A for over 3 years now without a problem. Ran on 66.6V before that. Stock top speed with a 48V pack will be 30 mph. Where to buy your kit is up to you, but I find buying from a volume seller within the country you live to be the cheapest option because they buy in bulk and usually offer free shipping within your country or area. In the US, I'd start here.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=48v1000w%20rear&LH_PrefLoc=1
In UK
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=48v%201000w%20rear&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
In AU
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=48v%201000w%20rear&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

What battery pack should I get?

There will be lots of different opinions on this. Personally I prefer rc lipo because its small, light, very powerful, and very configurable. But I'd recommend any lithium and no lead. There's just one consideration you need to take into account. The battery pack must be capable of providing the amperage required by the controller. IOW's if you have a max 30A controller, your battery pack should be capable of a 30A continuous output. Motor size doesn't matter. Only the controller, as it's what draws power from the battery pack, not the motor. For rc lipo HK is a good source.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__239__85__Batteries_Accessories-20C_Discharge.html

 

[d8veh]

You need to qualify who that kit is for. It's totally illegal in nearly every country. It's also too powerful and heavy for what a lot of people want. Many people want to pedal a bike like normal, but they want a bit of electrical power to make steep hills and strong winds easier, or they want to extend their pedal cycle journeys. Some people want to go a bit faster than what the law allows (25km/h in EU), but they don't want to make it obvious by cruising along at 30 mph without pedalling on a bike with a massive pancake motor in the back that's obviously illegal.

 

[Russell]

Wesnewall,

I disagree with just about everything in your post!

-R

 

[wesnewell]

Russell, If you could spell my name right I might take you seriously, but I doubt it. IOW's I don't really care.
D8veh, they're legal here. And i don't think most people care about that.

 

[MadRhino]

Wesnewall,

I disagree with just about everything in your post!

-R

Me too, but we have to admit that it is cheap and meeting requirements of more than half of the ebike newb crowd.

After all, one has to start somewhere and most of the time the first bike will be followed with a better one next year. Few will understand the advantages of building on a good stiff frame, with quality components to meet the "lightweight motorcycle" handling and safety requirements. Then, some will want a better "bicycle" feel and go the mid drive route. In any case, it is only after building a first bike that one does really begin to know what he wants.

 

[dogman dan]

His advice is a good start for many, particularly those on a tight budget. Believe it or not, yesterday at work, on the chat where I'm supposed to be selling much more expensive kits, I gave a guy the very same advice for the motor kit. He couldn't afford better. If he'd had the money, I'd have sold him the E-bike kit with 48v battery. It's similar to a Mac 10t, which many love and recommend.

But one size does not fit all. Dirt riding is nothing near like street riding. And a rolling hills dirt trail is nothing like a trail up the rocky mountains. So lots of different tools for different jobs. Alas, you really do have to ride something to know what your needs really are. Pedaling a bike is just too different from motoring. So we all start out with ideas about how it will be, that are bogus.

The best rides, are pretty good at everything. The main compromise being tire choices.

If a guy follows this advice, later on the same ebay kit motor can run much nicer with a better controller, and battery upgrades later are always good. The motor is fine for street and moderate dirt.

There are much worse first choices. Like mine was, a 36v brushed front hub. Yuuuuk. $100 cheaper drove that bad decision. Fortunately those kits are gone for good now.

 

[markz]

You could also go with yescomusa.com or leafbike.com or ebikes.ca or em3ev or the low brow bsmbattery.com - for your motor, controller and battery purchases.

Go direct drive motor for the silence and a bottle battery for stealth and weight management (keeping the battery weight close to the crank), or go RC lipos in rear rack panniers/triangle bag.

Be sure to get a good charging system going, dont fall into buying a 50W, or a 100W charger from Hobbyking only to find out it takes all day to charge up 10Ah battery pack. 10Ah is a minimum.

Look at em3ev's Li-Ion chargers, cost is like under $100, or HobbyKings 300W or 350W 20A chargers along with a corresponding 400W power supply unit, total cost $220+
These methods will ensure you have a few hours to fully charge up a battery pack. Then from there decide your battery. If you are buying a HobbyKing 350W 20A with 8S, buy some 4S or 8S packs, depending on the price. A hardcase 4S Turnigy's are like $20 each. For a DIY, just buy a complete battery package from ebikes.ca or em3ev.com.

Steel framed bike for sure. Take a magnet with you, if it sticks its steel. You like the bike, buy it. Classifieds are good, garage sales, pawn shops, farmers market, flea market. I picked up a steel Specialized Stumpjumper circa early 1990's for $20.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Wesnewall,

I disagree with just about everything in your post!

-R

Me too, but we have to admit that it is cheap and meeting requirements of more than half of the ebike newb crowd.

In context, Me Three. The advice Wes gave is good for maybe 1 in 10 people who come here asking for advice. Picking an ebike isn't a One-size-fits-most situation. Very often when people come asking for advice, it's because of some special condition that makes them unsure if an average kit will be right for them. They may have concerns about weight, range, or reliability under adverse conditions. Very often those who need to ask, would be better off with some other motor system, or something other than an ebike.

I also think it's a bad idea to recommend RC lipo to anyone who doesn't have the knowledge or experience to handle them properly. There are usually safer batteries available for similar cost.

Maybe this post should be retitled "How to build a basic Ebike."

 

[markz]

What are the safer batteries then RC at similar cost?

 

[spinningmagnets]

Steel framed bike for sure. Take a magnet with you, if it sticks...it's steel.

If you see a bike that interests you while you're in a large store, fat welds are usually aluminum, thin welds are usually steel...and you can almost always borrow a refrigerator magnet from the kitchen department to test (and then return magnet).

edit: today I used a "magnetic hide-a-key" from the automotive department.

 

[amberwolf]

Or ask an employee if you can borrow the magnetic bar backing from their namebadge for just a moment.

 

[dogman dan]

Safer batteries do cost more.

But,,, consider the cost of burning your house down, or worse, burning neighbors asleep in their beds if you live in apartments.

I keep saying, RC drone batteries need to be stored and charged in a place you would build a fire. This is not overkill paranoia, experienced users have burned down their houses keeping that stuff in a garage.

 

[k-harvey]

best is ba -fang mid drive kit ----worst thing about motors etc is you re always stuck with your battery as Lifepo4 last a long time i'm stuck with 24v cyclone never again
Buy a 2nd hand bike main thing rear cluster has 11 as smallest . as cheapo are bigger .

 

[riba2233]

What are the safer batteries then RC at similar cost?

Samsung 29E are safer and cheaper bare (cells), but you have to be sure they are strong enough for you. If they are not, you should look at Samsung 25R, which are slightly more expensive.

 

[markz]

I can attest to that. I wanted to be cheap, so I bought RC Lipo from Hobby King. I still do not know what I did to make mine burst into flame, but my money could have been spent wiser because now I have to buy another battery pack. Im planning to go with LiFePO4. So since the previous member stated that they last so long, is good news, but I have to decide before I buy what my plans are going to be for the future for my battery needs.

Safer batteries do cost more.

But,,, consider the cost of burning your house down, or worse, burning neighbors asleep in their beds if you live in apartments.

I keep saying, RC drone batteries need to be stored and charged in a place you would build a fire. This is not overkill paranoia, experienced users have burned down their houses keeping that stuff in a garage.

Thanks Riba, I am starting to make notes now, but I need a way to store them and quickly access them so I am starting to put it all into MS Word.

As for batteries, Green Bike Kit seems like they have reasonable prices. They sell kits, motors, chargers etc. Good site to have on your list as far as I can tell.

 

[amberwolf]

I still do not know what I did to make mine burst into flame

Did you ever go back to the thread you'd reported it in, to help us help you figure it out, for the sake of others that might be in the same situation?

 

[markz]

No sorry amberwolf I did not. Was that the very first post I did in Lipo Fire thread?
I will check for it, and respond accordingly. I still go over what I was doing, no doubt user error.

 

[999zip999]

Everbody wants a Super cheap battery made for a 250watt setup. To run an electric motorcycle's needs. You have a scooter controller, motor. So get a battery for your needs. No cheating.

 

[arkmundi]

Steel framed bike for sure. Take a magnet with you, if it sticks its steel. You like the bike, buy it. Classifieds are good, garage sales, pawn shops, farmers market, flea market. I picked up a steel Specialized Stumpjumper circa early 1990's for $20.

The eBike on a budget quest is a worthwhile venture for anyone. That's especially so for those with limited income, so limited budget. Like students, the newly employed, low-income, elderly on fixed social security, the newly unemployed, minimum wage earners, etc. I appreciate the noble attempt of the OP on this thread and others to lay out a path for achievement.

In my the thread Letters to my nephew, I attempt the same. Like wesnewell, markz and others, I recommend starting with a steel framed bike and used. Its where the greatest savings can be had without compromising on frame and the MTB component set which make eBikes bikes.

To motorize that, see my Top 10 eBike Conversion Kits & Where to Buy. Top favourites are the MAC 8T from EM3ev.com and the Leaf 1500 watt motor.

Then get a battery. Here's where we'll disagree. I do not recommend going the RC Lipo path. Instead, stick with the safer chemistries like LiFePO4 or LiMnCo, made from a range of manufacturers like A123, Samsung, Panasonic, LG and other large-scale companies making batteries for the consumer and EV markets.

The easiest & safe path is to get a full kit with battery from your preferred vendor. For instance a MAC 8T can be had from EM3ev with a decent battery in the 8ah to 10ah range, to keep your project in budget. But long-term savings can be garnered by making your own battery packs from cells, new or salvaged from used batteries. The latter has been successfully accomplished and there are lots of threads dealing with the ins & outs. I say long-term, because batteries will only last so long and then need replacing. Lot's of times its just a few cells in the pack that lead to failure. Meaning, if your battery is made so as to be easily disassembled, you can replace just the damaged cells. Forever... lowest life-time cost of ownership.

 

[ecycler]

What battery pack should I get?

There will be lots of different opinions on this. Personally I prefer rc lipo because its small, light, very powerful, and very configurable. But I'd recommend any lithium and no lead. There's just one consideration you need to take into account. The battery pack must be capable of providing the amperage required by the controller. IOW's if you have a max 30A controller, your battery pack should be capable of a 30A continuous output. Motor size doesn't matter. Only the controller, as it's what draws power from the battery pack, not the motor. For rc lipo HK is a good source.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... harge.html

We really should stop recommending RC Lipo to n00bs. Unless they have RC experience and understand the ins and outs, this is absolutely stupid. There is more to learn about handling (wiring, charging, maintaining, using) Lipo that is necessary for safety than all other ebike stuff combined. The ramifications of running a front hub motor on cheap Al suspended dropouts with no torque arms/plates equals one unlucky fool. The ramifications of mishandled lipo in a college dorm would be hundreds of unlucky innocent people.

 

[Nobuo]

I really like the post, It reminds what I'm doing with the "18650 repository" thread on my sign I'm sure wesnewell is going to make it deeper over time.

What battery pack should I get?

There will be lots of different opinions on this. Personally I prefer rc lipo because its small, light, very powerful, and very configurable. But I'd recommend any lithium and no lead. There's just one consideration you need to take into account. The battery pack must be capable of providing the amperage required by the controller. IOW's if you have a max 30A controller, your battery pack should be capable of a 30A continuous output. Motor size doesn't matter. Only the controller, as it's what draws power from the battery pack, not the motor. For rc lipo HK is a good source.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... harge.html

We really should stop recommending RC Lipo to n00bs. Unless they have RC experience and understand the ins and outs, this is absolutely stupid. There is more to learn about handling (wiring, charging, maintaining, using) Lipo that is necessary for safety than all other ebike stuff combined. The ramifications of running a front hub motor on cheap Al suspended dropouts with no torque arms/plates equals one unlucky fool. The ramifications of mishandled lipo in a college dorm would be hundreds of unlucky innocent people.

I just want to say I'm really agree about the nonsense those days for taking LiPo as main preferred choice. The time for 18650 as main choice for energy-quality/cost has come .
Is true that to buy completed high quality NCA packs are not as easy as buy a bunch of turnigy LiPo's, But there are some choices to buy completed 18650 high quality packs with different aluminium cases or not from China / USA / EU. And although it needs more "searching time" to purchasing, depending from where you buy, the safety is the minimum right for newcomers compared from LiPo builds and caring.

So I'm with safety reasons to recommend LiPo as a secondary choice for medium-average/expert users.

These are some examples for completed Chinese batteries to buy worldwide. You must know these are far away from a good quality lithium-ion packs. But I would recommend for newcomers that want an easy cost, and look just for minimum quality from not bad seller reputation. Some of those packs worth the costs.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/free...-Bike-with/1449512516.html?recommendVersion=1

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...S-PVC-case-charger-TNT/808967_1805033140.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...Conversion-with-charger/222587_892142883.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...lectric-bicycle-e-bike/222587_1669950257.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ilas-bms-for-bicycle/1453301_32256531921.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...rgeble-battery-with-BMS/222587_907639534.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...grer-Samsung-battery/1379035_32238610387.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...SAMSUNG-battery-cells/904105_32297321653.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...Ah-for-ebike-charger/1178407_32215342957.html


Thanks for making this post!