What's the point of 1000+W ebikes ?

Not true at all. My girlfriend was telling me only last night (while stinking drunk) that I should work out because I'm gordón [Spanish word for very fat guy]. I can tell you that when I was young and trim and very fast on the bike, I weighed about 240 pounds at 6'9".

But you don't have to be rippling with muscle to ride a pedal bike everywhere, as I usually do, or to climb whatever paved street you come across. It's only a matter of gearing and the willingness to make it happen.

I'm hoping that having a new and appealing e-bike won't spoil my taste for pedal bikes, but I guess you never know. The e-bikes I had in the past weren't as fleet and functional as this one. I can say that in the first three days of this thing running, I've done weeks worth of errands outside the neighborhood.
 
Now you have me curious what your new e bike is. ( a bafang mid drive?)

You are, and have always been a serious pedaler. I am too, but illness took my ability to pedal. I try, but for more than 5 min my limit is only about 75 watts. And that wont ever get me and a trailer load of groceries back out of the valley to my house on the hill. Well, I suppose it could, with a low enough gear. But it would not be worth being a lot sicker for 3 days. I would not get up that big hill in less than 5 min.

So at least 1000w is my preference, even though once up that hill I will drop to a 200w flow from my battery, and 50 from me. I prefer to travel at least slow enough to pedal my highest gear in a comfy cadence. Faux pedaling is all I have now, but I still want to do it. So I travel 15-18 mph 95% of the time.

Anyway, I have talked with many thousands of people who are in the same boat I'm in. Stroke, COPD, cancer, etc took nearly all their ability to pedal away. Many tried a 250w system, and found it would not get them up the hills because they simply cannot pedal hard for a short time. For these people, a 750-1000w max power system is what they need, if they choose a hub motor.

But they should also look at mid drives, unless they are going to ride something that kind of demands that it be a front hub.
 
Just yesterday, not having gone for a ride yet, I decided to run my crane back into town where my crane yard is, (I had a job close to home, so just drove it home at the end of the day) and then ride back home. I stopped along the way on the 14 mile ride back, to see a buddies newly converted full sus emountain bike (Rohloff hub, Bafang BBSHD) and at one point we both agreed that is was pretty amazing that I could so casually bike it now. There is a 1200' climb up the mountain right at the end, it was mid 80's, and I'm 68, fit but still 68. I use my "extra" power in my 1300 watt ride to make that ride NOT tortuous but fun enough to do....and not take forever. I made my usual 17-18 mph along the flats (11 gear in my Rohloff, pedaling at a sustainable cadence the entire way, no just using the throttle only). In other words, just like any other bike rider of any type. But once I hit the mountain, and kept my pace up, now using close to 1000 watts at time versus my usual 150-250 watts, is where the extra power really paid off. I slowed down to about 12-15 mph, I like to keep my amp draw low as possible. Driving this same road every day, i see the lycra crowd on their road bikes pulling this same section, at about 5 mph, really grunting it out as it is a long hard pull. These are young really fit guys on super light road bikes, and I guess they are having fun but it sure as hell doesn't look like it, and they are going too slow to make the ride a practical way to get home, for me the extra power makes the difference in me choosing to ride more, and for sure I still get plenty of exercise while doing so.

Kind of like the guys who use Viagra I suppose, I bet they get more exercise then if they didn't use Viagra, it motivates them :shock:
 
dogman dan said:
Now you have me curious what your new e bike is. ( a bafang mid drive?)

I got a BBS02 and installed it on a front loading cargo bike frame I built. Once I have the battery mounting sorted out a little better, I'll take pictures and post a description.

It's absolutely true that I wouldn't be happy with most compliant electric bicycles if I couldn't pedal. The Bafang BBS units are the only ones I've used so far that can meet Texas e-bike criteria while still being able to drag me up a hill without my help at the pedals. And even those, you have to electronically speed limit or else remove the throttle to make them compliant.

Here in Texas, there's a more entertaining category for someone who doesn't or can't pedal. It's called "motor assisted scooter", and it raises the allowed motor driven speed and removes the weight limit while preserving the same no-license, no- insurance privileges. That's what I'd have if I were disabled or didn't want to pedal.
 
Its important to remember, that a responsible person who rides a 1000 watt ebike, which is deemed to be " illegal" , is less likely to be injured or be involved in a accident, then a reckless rider who rides a 500 watt LEGAL ebike OR a normal un-motorized ebike. It isn't the power of the motor that decides who gets injured or killed. This is 1 reason why I think having laws that make it illegal to own/ride 250-750 watt ebikes, are illogical at best.

Id rather encounter a seasoned ebiker who rides a 1500 watt ebike , then a reckless 16 year old on a 500 watt ebike.

It will be interesting to see, what the future holds for ebikers and new laws.
 
Because all the fun of a motorcycle but less dangerous. If I crash I don't need to have full gear on if I don't want to be a mess. Also the commute is faster filtering is illegal here in newyork state but no one cares if you filter on a bicycle. Also being able to leave red lights if all is clear just makes the commute faster. Before anyone complains about me braking the law I am even worse on my road bike so i can maintain speed stop signs pretty much mean slow down to check for cars then pedal hard as possible. I do plan on getting a electric motorcycle and seeing if I can get away with filtering the lack of noise on electric should reduce on tickets. Plus filtering should be frocking legal because small as bike in traffic is asking to get rear ended. Giant cars get read ended enough. Plus if you are in front of traffic someone cutting you off because they didn't see you at a intersection is a lot less likely.

How ever I feel motorcycle licensing needs to change there should be 2 or 3 classes of a motorcycle listence. 1 everyone needs to take the msf and a course similar is needed even for under 1000watt ebikes. Now back on the license I should not be able to past a motorcycle test on a 250 cc bike or even a honda grom then get a 1000cc supersport later and ride it. If you don't think that will go horrible look at Yami Noob.

Over 3000 watt ebikes should be treated as low speed motorcycles. Pretty much everything needs to be regulated. Because just regulating some of it and making the rest illegal is creating the wild wild west we have now.
 
rumme said:
Its important to remember, that a responsible person who rides a 1000 watt ebike, which is deemed to be " illegal"

There's nothing illegal about an overpowered e-bike. It just has more obligations than one that conforms to electric bicycle limits.
 
Just saying anyone can say they are disabled.
My electrified Townie 21D is most definately a "Disabled Persons Mobility Scooter" :wink:
 
Reasonable 0 Watt assist pedal only city pushbiking.
https://youtu.be/-jDKJT2dDZQ
[youtube]-jDKJT2dDZQ[/youtube]
 
Hehe. I'd love to see the "making of". There are always a few nice crashes in the making of a vid with a pro rider.

This one does show for sure, that you don't need 10Kw to gamble with skin and bones. :twisted:
 
MadRhino said:
Hehe. I'd love to see the "making of". There are always a few nice crashes in the making of a vid with a pro rider.

This one does show for sure, that you don't need 10Kw to gamble with skin and bones. :twisted:

Chalo said he can achieve 50mph on a pedal only bike downhill and I believe it's possible for him to reach at least 130-200mph depending greatly on his level of aerodynamic commitment to the run pedal only and the budget for the ramp or volcano cinder dome paving or whatever it would take.

The big difference between <1kW bikes and 5-25kW ebikes is which hills are available to ride and keep up with traffic safely.

I have been a liter bike and Zero rider for over 100k miles of heavy urban traffic riding. So those are the speeds and acceleration rates that have decades of building muscle memory and obstacle tracking and avoidance in my set of life experiences.

It has it's own set of risks all the same as climbing "35mph" steep hills at 5-10mph and having a traffic overtaking you.

It also enables awesome technical downhill trails to become uphill trails that are equally if not more safe and fun, because the collision physics are all greatly more safe in your favor than falling downhill at speed on trails lined with very solid redwoods to clip.

I have been down for the last few weeks with a back injury and haven't been able to walk or ride without crutches until just today being able to get a few hundred feet walked unassisted with no muscle spasms, and finally stopped vomiting anything I ate including clear fluids (strangely usually many hours after drinking it and it had no bile taste) for around 9days. What a nice incidental dieting gift the universe kindly delivered, and Im breathing without pain now typing this. I can ride OK typically even when too injured to walk (spasms being about the only questionable to keep a bike up right time.)

Only so many breaths for each of us. Time and attention are the real currency of our one moment of human experience. I enjoy safe timely travel on ebikes or motorcycles through traffic, and I take the risk path that doesn't require trusting the cars potentially distracted driver to notice me for me survival.

I'm equally fine with people who want to focus on their own kinetic energy as the dominant roadway risk. For perspective a car (3800lbs) at 50mph has a kinetic energy of 435kJoules aka, (kWatt*seconds).

My own 190lbs body at 25mph is 5.5kJ (or 5.5seconds of a theoretical 100% efficient drivetrain delivering 1000W traction effort of mechanical propulsion in a vacuum).

Chalos answer about what he would do if he had to have 250w cap is actually pretty good to say you design a system that gets you 250w of propulsive effort delvered from a speed approaching 0mph, as at some speed near 0mph a 250W propulsive mechanical thrust exceeds even any versions of deathbike and would be cable of safely jumping to evade traffic hazard (cars/trucks)things safely from very low speeds only. Having the bike be 25kW vs 250w means it could also continue to escape unexpected traffic hazards on hills or when traveling at speeds above 5-10mph.

Just like the sport bikes anyone can go take a 20min motorcycle learners permit test and sign for a loan payment with almost nothing down and ride away on a 200hp 200mph sport bike. This doesn't require you ride it or any bike of any power level at speeds above what feels safe and comfortable for conditions. It also does not mean that because that vehicles rider has a valid plate on it and insurance that it's rider will respond to whatever unexpected highway traffic anomalies or the persons skills/risk ratio.

A disproportionately large amount of the best riders and drivers I've known in my life hadn't had a valid driver's license for at least a decade.

Other people are free to focus on their own personal kinetic energy and believe a 3ft traffic law magic force field will protect them. Life is your own choose your own adventure book to include whatever fantasies you're into, cars tires won't be stopped by passing over painted lines, nor does each rearward overtaking driver come equipped with a ceaseless and perfect bicycle lookout awareness in all kinds of conditions, activities and states of mind.
 
Yeow,, that sounds like a life changing back injury Luke. Sucks that it always happens to those who go out and live, risking body and limb in the process.

Cool bike Chalo, sounds ideal for you, and your known to have hills city. Anyplace watts are limited below 700w and there are significant hills, mid drive for the win, even for fairly light people.

We have a very big military base near my town, Ft Bliss in El Paso. Constantly the latest lemming story on the news, under 25 year old guy lost control of the crotch rocket, often exiting the freeway. Very seldom another vehicle involved. My best guess, hit the exit ramp at about 100 mph or more. One reason I survived owning a fast bike in the past, was I spent years in my teens riding a pig of a Honda CB 350. Plenty fast enough to die on, but at least when I laid it down many times, I was typically going less than 60 mph. Dirt lay downs, I was 14, no license yet, no title to the bike, no plate, so I rode the back roads to work.)

I do sort of think you ought to log a few years on a sub 100 mph bike before stepping up. I remember when the first KZ 1000's came out. Two guys I knew with little riding experience died, another with more sense, took two rides on it and then parked it.

Anyway, similar stuff happens when people build an e bike capable of speeds over 30 mph IMO. Unless they have logged the miles on at least mopeds or small motorcycles, they don't have the skills yet.

They need, like the crotch rocket rider, to ride well within the performance envelope for quite some time to build the skills you need. If you raced in your youth, BMX, MTB, or road bicycle, then you likely have the skills. If you rode a bike to junior high and never had a motorcycle, likely you don't.
 
I do sort of think you ought to log a few years on a sub 100 mph bike before stepping up

Japan does this. If you see a guy on a large motorcycle there, he has had several licenses as he has graduated from smaller motorcycles to the next size-class up. No skipping right to the big-dogs, no matter how much money you have.

I recall my mind being blown the first time I "pushed the handlebars in the direction I wanted to go". Then, I tried it on a bicycle with the same result...wild and counter-intuitive....
 
I have had more crashes on plain pedal bikes than on motorcycles and ebikes. The mountains have a lot of gravity power to push a bike down, and so many obstacles to make it crash. In the city, being able to use the whole width of the street instead of the risky extreme right along theparked cars and sidewalks, is giving a powerful ebike so many more options to avoid an accident. I feel safer than ever, and have had very few minor incidents since I quit riding horses, pedal bikes and motorcycles. Ebikes will be my choice of ride for the rest of my riding carreer, another decade I hope, that would make a nice round number of 60 years on 2 wheels. After passing the 50 years of riding, one has to set a new target. :wink:

There was a time when crashing was business as usual. I was in the 20's and pain did cure so fast, that I just did't care about the risk and believed I would never get old. Maybe I was just lucky or maybe rider's instinct did save me, but after hundreds of crashes riding anything, I did hit the 70 years of age fully functionnal and still stronger than the kids who work for me. Another decade of it, is a realistic expectation.

Life is like that sometimes: It does forgive one who is taking all the risks, while it does hit another who is taking no chances with anything.
 
I didn't know you were 70 years old mad Rhino!!!

You rock!!!

After I'm adequately healed up, if you ever visit the bay area, it would be an honor to go shred some incredible trails through the redwoods with you. I will be sure to have a suitable spare bike ready for you.

Huge respect for 60years on 2wheels!
 
@Liveforphysics
That might happen Luke. I've heard that you were in Montreal for the F-e race. I would have been happy to see you and ride together. Evens told me too late, and I had a birthday party that very same night.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
liverphysics said:
I have been down for the last few weeks with a back injury and haven't been able to walk or ride without crutches until just today being able to get a few hundred feet
you need to be careful when bangin a yoga instructor.
they're so demanding.

....demanding and flexible ;)
 
markz said:
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
liverphysics said:
I have been down for the last few weeks with a back injury and haven't been able to walk or ride without crutches until just today being able to get a few hundred feet
you need to be careful when bangin a yoga instructor.
they're so demanding.

....demanding and flexible ;)


She might be doubling my recovery time because whenever I feel recovered enough...

A fantastic first world problem I'm glad to enjoy. :)
 
You'd be wise to date a Shiatsu masseuse for a while. They are easier on your back than a Yoga torsionist. :wink:
 
MadRhino said:
You'd be wise to date a Shiatsu masseuse for a while. They are easier on your back than a Yoga torsionist. :wink:

The one I married is exceptionally top heavy and skilled, but massage friends are also helping me as well right now. So much love and help from the universe, I'm incredibly grateful.

You and I will ride when the time is right, however it ends up in Montreal or Santa Cruz is fine with me. I'm healing up enough I could ride (mellow) again. Feels so incredible to ride again after being off wheels for a bit, I'm grateful for enjoying the anticipation.
 
Did you hurt your back in a crash?

I have had my share of back pain, and still have. Living with pain is quite normal for any old rider. Some cold wet days are waking up every broken bones of the past. Good things are: You learn to abstract the pain and keep going strong, you end up being able to take a hit without any emotion, and you can predict the weather with the feeling in your knee. :wink:

Then surpisingly, having lived so many hits and damages end up giving you a better sense of humour, accepting with a grin every new trick that life plays on you. Get well soon Luke, and ride better than ever.
 
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