WHERE ARE THE GOOD, INEXPENSIVE DIY KITS ?

S

ScooterMan101

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Joined
Oct 6, 2012
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2,130
Location
SF Bay Area California
I have been researching, reading many posts here and anywhere else I can find on converting a bicycle to electric and my head is spinning, so much info, but I am not finding what I ( and many others as well I am sure ) Want .

I would love to have a mid drive, but all my research so far only comes up with big , converted scooter motors or small hub motors without the spokes and rim , that take more tools, and work space and know how , that I have to put it together myself .

So what about a front drive ? well :
I am finding so far , no good at least 350 watt or better yet , 500 or more watt, front hub motors that have a 15mm or 20 mm through Axle that would work with a modern Suspension fork 26 inch and/ or what is becoming the new norm
( and what I want ) ( I am putting my 26 inch Mountain bike up for sale so I can go with 27.5/650b or a 700c Cyclocross bike.

in mountain biking the ... 27.5 inch wheel platform ! aka. 650b. suspension forks are becoming Tapered, which is a good thing, a very good thing for Confidence in the corners, and many/more suspension forks that come to market on bikes each month use a wheel with a 15mm or 20 mm through axle . and yet the E-Bike industry has not made a Front Motor that would be good for use on a suspension or Cyclocross Carbon Fork !

( Have they not heard of a Soft Start ! the RC Model electric sailplane systems had that over 15 years ago ! ! ) What is with this industry ? I want to buy , but, I want to do this before I get too OLD !

So

That leaves me with the choice of .... Rear hub motor/wheel,
and my searching finds
NO
27.5/650b Disc Rear Hub Motors
and
NO
29er Disc Wheel Rear Hub Motors
Add to that the Rear Hub Motor/Wheels I am finding accept a 8 speed cassette ?! ?
Even bikes down to the $ 450 range , on sale, have 9 speed cassettes,
and the good bikes these days have
10 and even 11 speed cassettes, ( the 2015 bikes are just around the corner and there will be even more , and on even lower end bikes.

So
Where are these Rear Hub Motor/Wheels ?
 
My Height is Medium Weight is around 170, and will sometimes be pulling a cargo trailer with 65 lbs on it. so I once I get / find the right Motor,
I will be getting a Medium 27.5 mountain bike or a Small/Medium 29 er, or 54 Cm Cyclocross
or I would love a good modern Cyclocross with Disc , Tappered Head Tube/ Fork with BB 86 or BB 30 Bottom Bracket.

I live in California, in a Flat area with hills just 1 mile from where I live, there are 30-40 and more on the weekends, Road Bike Riders on $ 2,500 - $ 5,000 plus carbon Road Bikes each day , riding the route I want to ride up in the Hills, ( I just about gave my self a heart attack a few days ago trying to train to ride with them at least for a couple of miles. ) So now I must admit my age and injuries, and get electric assist , before I really do die on the road of over exertion on my cardiovascular system ! )

I am going for the most efficient system possible, that means the Best would be a Good Quality/Spec'd 2013 or newer Cyclocross , Disc with 700 25c or 28c tires.

But I could put those tires on a 29 er , however with much added weight of a Mountain Bike there are some low end 29ers on sale right now for a very good price , like under $ 450 US Dollars.

Guess I would have to wait for the e-bike industry to catch up to the 27.5 inch bikes, which would be a very compromise for me bike wise. and it would fit my body better than a 29er.

What is affordable to me is a Bike and an electric Kit ( both ) to be as close to $ 1 k as possible . ( there are many bikes on sale right now )
 
Ypedal said:
What are you needs, your height, weight, terrain, useage ( on or off-road ) etc.. that narrows the list down quite a bit.. but " inexpensive " is a relative term.
Click to expand...


Maybe someone should come up with a noob, ebike suggestion form. They will out the form, we start with the recommendations based on the commonly needed bits.
 
Check this, for example:
http://www.electricrider.com/enforcer-mountain-extreme-electric-bike-1500w-p/enforcer-me16.htm

Motor is spec'd to haul pedi-cabs. I just added it to my Giant and it hauls my trailer up my 11% grade w/no trouble at all.

(More gears aren't that big a deal when you've added power to the bike . . .)
 
Goathead,
thanks for the link, but it is more, price wise than I can borrow at this time.
if one came up used , in my area for a fraction of the price, I could use the parts.
with my limited budget I will probably have to go with a Kit .

I really want to let the people in the Business know that they are Really not Providing the products that many of us want.
At the very least a rear hub motor that works on the Newer Bikes, Example :

Road bike with Disc ( 135mm rear dropout spacing 10 or 11 cog cassette )
Cyclocross with Disc ( 135mm rear dropout spacing 10 or 11 cog cassette )

292r with Disc ( 135mm rear dropout spacing make it available in 9 , 10, or 11 cog cassette )
27.5/650b with Disc ( 135 mm rear dropout spacing 9 , 10 or 11 cog cassette )
 
Goatrider,

The link showed a whole bike starting at $ 2000, went back to see they sell kits,
I just checked out the website for their kits.
But way more $$$ than I can do , or is good for me, also looked like the one for nearly $ 700 did not even come with Batteries .

There is a Company in Washington State called, Clean Republic, I think, that has a more
reasonable price kit, $ 400-$ 500
However
It is only a front hub kit, and only a weak 250 watt , 24 volt motor at that .
I called them up, and asked for a Rear Motor Wheel , with a little more power, and they said they are not offering for sale any rear hub motors, I almost could not believe my ears !
They would have a good product if only they would offer REAR , 700c / 29er / 27.5 , etc Rear Hub Motor 9 , 10 , 11 cog cassette hub body, but they don't ,
It looks like a inexpensive motor, I so far have not found a dealer in the U.S. that sells the Rear Version with higher Wattages/Voltages, and better more wheel/ cassette body options.
That would be best,
 
Looks like you have a budgetary constraint too. What is your total target for this build?

I ask because you get what you pay for, if you know where to look. Let us know how much you're willing to pay and well tell you where to look.
 
go on the internet and type rear electric hub motors for bicycles and you will find plenty of options.SEARCH :shock:
 
Cal3thousand

$ 400-$ 600 for a kit with LiFePo4 Batteries is what would work for me, $ 600 being 12amp or more batteries, and at least 350 watts. ( I live in the U.S. so I see 500 watt and 1,000 watt motors around )

Rear Drive Hub Motor, Disc, that will accept at least a 9 speed cog cassette,
but better will accept 9 cog cassette with spacer and 10 cog cassette .
In either a 29er or
135mm rear spacing , disc/canti ready 700 c wheel
Note : I have learned from a good mechanic at the bike shop I probably be buying the bike from that
Traditional road/cross frame bikes that use 700c wheels have a 130mm spacing ( even measured myself , yep it is true, )
But the Modern Road bikes with Disc's , and Cyclocross Bikes have a 135mm rear dropout spacing.

So I am really looking for a 29 er wheel or 700c Wheel , Disc/Canti/Rim Brake, at least 9 cog cassette capable
Better yet 10 cog cassette Capable, at least 350 watts, 24-36-48 volt. motor like the 8fun that Clean Republic uses for the front, ( thay talked about it being better with power off as far as resistance goes, but I forgot exactly why ?

Would really prefer to buy local from someone in the U.S. But would buy from China if others have gotten a good Hub/Motor Wheel, on time, good price. and said product is what is advertised .
otherwise I might as well just wait for a whole bike to show up used on Craigslist, which does happen ever once in a while, a good bike at a good price.
 
There is a cassette motor out now, but the hub of this business is in serving China and India. That's why so much isn't in that high-end US range of components, I think.

I figure, I've used freewheels to tour to Yosemite and go down the Calif coast and for thousands of miles and dozens of years. They work, so who cares if it isn't the latest and greatest? (I'm also of the opinion that a whole lot of the "innovation" in the bicycle industry in the last 20 or 30 years isn't really much but a way to sell stuff.)

Most motors will take a disc. Like I said before, the need for gears drops off if you can just add electricity -- you don't need 9 gears so you have one that is "just right" to match your cadence.

Those guys at Electric Rider basically give you bike for free, if you price out their kit and battery of the same make. Figure that if you cut a couple of car trips a week, you're saving on the cost of a gym membership and the wear on your car plus gas and it's pretty easy to rationalize the electric bike. (My car sat home every day this week.)
 
Goathead,

I am wanting the newer cog compatibility Hub Motors , Because that is what is on the Newer Bikes.
I will be buying a newer bike ( in the Credit Card ) for this project. and they come with shifters 9, 10 and 11
And
On a newer Mountain bikes, Cyclocross and Disc Road bike changing out the shifters is an expensive added cost, then a chain . and labor at the local bike shop. It is much better to get what the Industry should be offering in the first place.
8 speed might/might not work for me, I have arthritis in my knees, so I need more than 98% of the other riders on the road when I am in the wrong gear my legs really hurt .
and add to that I will be pulling a trailer, , going up hill,
Then latter on
I will be going over to a mid drive, as soon as they come down in price/get better, so I want to start off with the cog/shifters that will work best for me in the long run in the first place, Knees/Legs, and Wallet considered.
 
Low end motors won't pull a trailer up a hill, especially when you go with a larger wheel -- you are effectively gearing up your final drive, losing torque and gaining speed.

Maybe, buy a good used bike and put the money into the battery and motor? (I"m also not sure you'd actually have to change shifters, probably just the chain.)

What distances are you looking at doing?
 
Goathead,

Why do low end motors not pull ?
Also Does that mean lower torque ?

My 26 inch Mountain Bike with the tires I have on it for the Riding I do, ( Michelin City 26" X 1.85 Running at 80-85 psi ) are about only 1/4 of an inch = 1 cm ... less than a 700x23c road tire ! yes only about 1/4 of an inch less outside diameter than a Road Tire .
I went to two different bike shops to measure this.

>

I have been looking on Craigslist for a few months now to find a used bike, and there is a huge selection since I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, nearly 1,000 bikes/parts/ per day for sale ! only once a month or so is there a real good deal, and it is usually gone the same day or the next day.
after all that searching, I am finding there are Better deals on New Bikes, How is that possible ?,
The used bikes have older components, that are also worn, the older components like Shimano XT an Ultragra are now surpassed or now under the name of much lower priced components . example Deore of today is much like or in some cases better than older XT . and same for the Road Groupo's I had a 2008 full 105 group set on a road bike , and the newer Tiagra is the same or better, on a cheeper bike , with better fork ( Tapered ) and larger BB area .
So
People who bought a bike, back when , paid a certain amount and now want a certain amount .
But the newer lower end bikes are just as good, even better, at the same price or near , and they are New .
Because
The drive train on the used bike is now worn, the frame might be cracked or otherwise damaged, etc.
And buying a low end/cheeper bike from the bike shop I can open a credit account, no interest for over 6 months, and
they will service it , ( adjustments ) at no cost for 2 years.
Believe me I searched, and did the math, I am better off new, and selling it a couple of years down the road in 99.9% of what I have seen used.
 
Torque is the name of the game for hills and for hauling. Motors are wound for speed or for torque. Number of turns of wire on the coils is the nominal difference (it's a bit more complicated, but that's the least you need to know.)

You can burn out a motor pretty easily and in a couple of ways, stripping the gears inside being one, burning the varnish on the coils being the other. Either is accomplished by dumping power into a system that can't take it.

Check these guys:
http://www.ebikessf.com/

They're local to you, have a good rep and carry quality goods. (Maybe not the best prices, though.)

Get your good local bike store to find a bike for you; they should even offer a warranty. LOTS of bikes get bought with good intentions and don't get used much. Is what you want bragging rights on the latest gruppo? Why not build an e-bike and brag on THAT?

If you're serious about this, you're probably looking at $800 or so for battery, controller, motorized wheel, throttle. Cheaper kits are cheaper for a reason.

It sounds like you don't do much of your own mechanical work?
 
Thanks Goathead,

I will check out that link later, others as well,

I thought I would want a higher torque motor, I was going to order one anyway to be on the safe side.

I don't really need the latest groupo cause that is 11 speed, and even 2x11 and 2x10 on mountain bike .

I would be happy with a 9 or 10 speed Cassette , there are hills so the more the better for my knees and legs.

Also
It is just that I am seeing close out prices on some bikes , such good prices that it is better to buy new, perhaps not at the start of the new model year, but check out some of the prices, like a 29er for under $ 450 ! Wow.
or a Cyclocross for a little less than a grand
with , all the used cyclocross bikes that I have seen on Craigslist have been that price or even more , and for what , used worn out gearing and older frame/BB/head tube,
So
When I can buy new for the price of used, I would be going for new.

Here is the kit I really want , only one problem, he is not doing kits, and after 2 years , wow , 2 years , I don't see any good mid drive like this on the market ! ? !
Hope this link works , it is called : The Worlds Lightest Mountain E-Bike Ever , done by a retired guy in Switzerland !

http://www.electricbike.com/lightest-bike/

If he can do it,
Why is the industry not ?
That is one of the reasons I am posting here incase someone knows of a good system. not yet commercially available
 
You say you would like 650B and at least 10spd rear with disc brakes. Instead of buying a bike and fitting a kit, why not buy a complete e-bike?
The BH Emotion Neo 650B seems to fill all your requirements, except maybe price. If you have a look in the for sale sections for your local then you might nab a second hand one in your price range.

http://www.bhbikes.com/web/en/easy-motion-ebikes/technology/neo/neo-650b.html
 
If you really want an e-bike, why just buy the one from electricrider.com and be happy?

It's even got the battery included in the price, you get a new bike of good quality that is built and warranted as a kit.

(Again, trust me, you don't need that many gears. Go to a store in SF and test ride one, you'll see . . . )

Yeah, that custom-built Swiss one-off is nice, though some of the spec's are sketchy -- like would it fit your budget? Is the battery adequate to meet your needs? How long are you willing to wait? (Meantime, I'm having fun riding . . . with a serious electrical boost.)

The reason those "new" bikes are so cheap is exactly because the bike industry is now about "this year's model" the way the car companies used to be. That's what I was allueding to when I said the innovations over the last 20 to 30 years haven't been so important -- and far less important for other than the most elite of world class riders.

So, it's as if the shape of the tail lights marks you as "out of date." Little more than fashion.

Best of luck to you.
 
Jateureka,

That Neo 650b looks good, they don't say the price though .


Goathead
I went to electricrider.com
The bikes there are way over my budget, $ 4,000-$ 5000 !
if I had the money so far from what I have seen I would buy from Currie ( E-Zip/I-Zip ) if I had the funds, but even then most of their bikes are not so good, just good electronics .
I know there will be better options on electric kits coming up. so it is better for me right now to get a good bike that will last years, a better electric kit latter on, might even come out about the same in the long run.
Perhaps someone here on endless sphere knows of something good at a good price. Even the Stuff at $ 2,600- $ 2,999 from Currie is over my budget the only one I really like there is the I-Zip Peak E-Bike 2014 but there again $ borrowing $ 3k for a electric bike does not make sense , not being a commuter .
 
Battery is likely half your cost, the rest of the kit won't come down much -- it's copper and castings and electronics and labor. Not much place to go on them.

Everyone here is waiting for the next big breathrough in battery tech. Not much coming anytime soon from anything I can glean.

Like I said, it's pretty easy to rationalize the price if you can leave the car at home -- and you're halfway there if you are willing to plunk nearly a grand for a "new" bike.

In the meantime, if your knees are up to pulling a trailer in the meantime, have at it. I'll be the guy flying past you with my trailer, on the hills, at 20 mph and only maybe pedaling. :p

(On a 10-year-old Giant Cypress. And, yeah, I've got a custom-built road bike at home with top of the line gruppo. But I'm in it for fun, and I think this might be the next wave of bicycling, when everyone finally figures out that no amount of pseudo-sponsor spandex wear will get them to the Tour and THEIR knees give out.)
 
Goathead, and anyone else ,

I forgot to mention a few things,

First I have been going around to bike shops for a couple of months test riding new model bikes.

After riding bikes back to back with different frames and groups, I have found that :

Tapered Head Tubes/Steerer Tubes on Forks is a large enough difference that you would want one too, yea people have been riding 1 1/8 for years, but that has changed,
I can see why so many people are dumping their old bikes on Cragslist, and buying newer bikes with Tapered Forks and larger Bottom Brackets/ areas like the BB86 and BB30 .

It is not so much the newer 2x10 and 2x11 group sets that I am interested in , it is the, Much , Better Ride of the newer Frames/Forks !

Also I have some parts laying around ready to be used like 9 speed cog/ shifters. Disc Brakes.
So
It is really better for me to get a Rear Hub Motor Wheel that is made for the 9 and or 10 speed drivetrain.
 
. . . but you don't have enough money, you say, so it's all pretty much moot.

Not every frame and fork is suited to what an e-bike is. Choose wisely.
 
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