WHERE ARE THE GOOD, INEXPENSIVE DIY KITS ?
- Thread starter ScooterMan101
- Start date
Goathead
100 W
Also have the e-bikekit.com kit (though the spec's have changed someI. They now proviso against 48v and riders/weight beyond what I want to haul . I've beaten the hell out of it and it still runs. I think hauling 50 pound sacks of bird seed in a trailer will finish it.
No hesitation in recommending their kit, it's great, easy to install and their service is top notch.
No hesitation in recommending their kit, it's great, easy to install and their service is top notch.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
I don't have money to waste, There is a Difference !
I have a credit card and can get credit
When buying from a business that has a Very High Overhead , like SF , Etc .
You, Do Not , get what you pay for ! You pay , More , for what you get.
To borrow money to get all this, It must be good ( bike and electronic parts ) and at a good price.
the bikes are there price wise, for what you are getting a new bike on closeout/25% -40% off is worth it.
At least I now know what is good in the Bike Area, still very new to
the Electric Drive Train aspect of all this,
I bet the Retired guy in Switzerland only spend a few hundred on the electronics/battery , looking at it closely it looks like a very small motor, off the shelf from some industrial application . and just a home made battery pack with just a few other things,
He spent most of his money on the Bike !
Surely someone here knows of something like this ?
I have a credit card and can get credit
When buying from a business that has a Very High Overhead , like SF , Etc .
You, Do Not , get what you pay for ! You pay , More , for what you get.
To borrow money to get all this, It must be good ( bike and electronic parts ) and at a good price.
the bikes are there price wise, for what you are getting a new bike on closeout/25% -40% off is worth it.
At least I now know what is good in the Bike Area, still very new to
the Electric Drive Train aspect of all this,
I bet the Retired guy in Switzerland only spend a few hundred on the electronics/battery , looking at it closely it looks like a very small motor, off the shelf from some industrial application . and just a home made battery pack with just a few other things,
He spent most of his money on the Bike !
Surely someone here knows of something like this ?
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Slacker,
E-Bikekit.com is now on my list of websites/business to check out
Good to hear they have something for 9 speed.
Thank You
E-Bikekit.com is now on my list of websites/business to check out
Good to hear they have something for 9 speed.
Thank You
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Goathead,
Good to hear you have one , how many miles/ hours ?
Are you saying that hauling around 50+ lbs would cook it though ?
Good to hear you have one , how many miles/ hours ?
Are you saying that hauling around 50+ lbs would cook it though ?
Goathead
100 W
But the guy in Switzerland likely had a full machine shop and dozens of years of machine shop experience. Don't overlook that. It may represent hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of skills and equipment -- I don't think anyone is going to give that away for free and the market is proving it by the fact that you haven't found that sort of kit for sale at the price you think it should be.
What you're thinking is value, or even "good" in a bike might be off-base in the e-bike arena.
I only recommended the SF store because you could test ride and they might tip you off to a good used one when it comes in, and from the sound of it, you will need help with the electrical (and even the mechanical) parts of this project. I said they weren't the cheapest -- similar kits can be had from places I recommended.
You seem to have your heart set on a "new" bike that has currently fashionable features and maybe going electric later on. So go with that. They're your knees.
The electricrider.com has bikes that will more than meet your needs. Oversized bottom brackets and forks that might be stiffer -- and really, demand empirical proof -- won't save your knees and keep you riding for years to come.
What you're thinking is value, or even "good" in a bike might be off-base in the e-bike arena.
I only recommended the SF store because you could test ride and they might tip you off to a good used one when it comes in, and from the sound of it, you will need help with the electrical (and even the mechanical) parts of this project. I said they weren't the cheapest -- similar kits can be had from places I recommended.
You seem to have your heart set on a "new" bike that has currently fashionable features and maybe going electric later on. So go with that. They're your knees.
The electricrider.com has bikes that will more than meet your needs. Oversized bottom brackets and forks that might be stiffer -- and really, demand empirical proof -- won't save your knees and keep you riding for years to come.
Goathead
100 W
Yeah, the ebikekit pulls 17 amps going up my hill with just me and the battery; the electric rider kit pulls only 9 with a lightly loaded trailer, in addition.
It's a just much, much bigger motor -- about a third larger. The controller also passes 30A instead of 20. BUT, as I said they've changed the spec's. So I don't know that my ebikekit is comparable to their current offering.
It's a just much, much bigger motor -- about a third larger. The controller also passes 30A instead of 20. BUT, as I said they've changed the spec's. So I don't know that my ebikekit is comparable to their current offering.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Goathead,
Thanks , at least I have a few businesses/websites to look into over the next few days.
Also now is the time for me to get a new bike after searching for months and just now experiencing what happened when I tried to train too hard on this last Sunday , before this last Sunday I was not even going to go electric, just buy a very efficient bike , but after almost, or getting a minor heart attack, ( I felt like someone punched me in the chest very hard and was sore and very tired for 4 days,) so yea that a good bike that will last me years , is my priority right now over a high dollar e-bike kit,
Hopefully someone here on the list will know of some newer less expensive options, or a bike will come up on craigslist used, cheep, with the wheel and controller , etc, that I can use on my current or new bike
but... I have more research to do to find out what is good or not in a Hub Motor .
Thanks , at least I have a few businesses/websites to look into over the next few days.
Also now is the time for me to get a new bike after searching for months and just now experiencing what happened when I tried to train too hard on this last Sunday , before this last Sunday I was not even going to go electric, just buy a very efficient bike , but after almost, or getting a minor heart attack, ( I felt like someone punched me in the chest very hard and was sore and very tired for 4 days,) so yea that a good bike that will last me years , is my priority right now over a high dollar e-bike kit,
Hopefully someone here on the list will know of some newer less expensive options, or a bike will come up on craigslist used, cheep, with the wheel and controller , etc, that I can use on my current or new bike
but... I have more research to do to find out what is good or not in a Hub Motor .
Chalo
100 TW
ScooterMan101 said:
So, what you want is a duck that can win a fight with a dog. Good luck with that.
Suspension forks and carbon forks are both very specifically designed to do what they are supposed to do. You are complaining that they aren't good at what they aren't designed to do? Okay... but please excuse me and other being nonplussed by that.
You clearly don't have en engineering disposition, but allow me to observe that you can take a crack a the problem just like anybody else can.
babyhughie
100 W
This bike cost me $1400 as it sits.. It's got a cheap yescomusa 1000w kit and 48v 15ah battery from calibike. I plan to add a decent suspension fork and a thudbuster st seatpost.. I'll have a great looking and functioning cruiser for around $1600 when it's all done. Here's a few pics.
Goathead
100 W
The bike you want comes with years of cardio-vascular conditioning and a new set of knees. (And really, if you had chest pains, contact your doctor -- that's serious stuff.)
The efficiencies to be wrung from a bike come on only about 4 dimensions and they take you in the opposite direction of what you will want to do an electric conversion. You can reduce friction, reduce rolling resistance, reduce weight and reduce air drag. But the gains in any of those are so negligible that even a crap bike with a good rider will kick the ass of the best bike with a mediocre one. (And I've ridden with world-class riders who demonstrated this to me exactly and precisely.)
When you add a battery and motor, your chassis needs to be able to support them. I'd venture that a minimal battery -- to avoid running it down ("depth of discharge") --- is 10Ah and at 48v, that's going to be 10 pounds of dead weight in LifePo4. The unsprung weight of a hub motor to do what you want is another 12 pounds -- there's no way to fake or coddle enough magnetic flux from less. Add to that the torque this dead weight and unsprung weight puts out and you've got a beast of a different color altogether. (There may be a some reasons that we don't see front wheel drive motorcycles or carbon fiber motorcycles and while what we're talking about is low power compared to a true motorcycle, for your own safety, take your cues from motorcycles, not racing bicycles. Many, if not most of the converted bikes on this forum are steel or aluminum framed and not what you'd call lightweight.)
I worked in the hobby industries for many years and profits there are predicated on "selling the dream" whether it is athletic or aesthetic.
In photography (it's easier to see the way this works in a field other than the one you are interested in) we'd pitch the implication that by purchasing a given lens, you too could quit your job and work for Playboy/National Geographic/whoever and become rich and famous. Just buy the right putter, you'll be on the PGA tour. Just buy the right aerodynamic, made from "unobtanium" bike component and they'll pay you to wear their logo instead of you paying them to be their lycra-clad billboard.
But the commonality is that you have to buy something. We don't ever mention Malcolm Gladwell's "10,000 hour" rule* -- that to achieve competency takes that long. To get really good takes that long again. And to be world-class takes that long again, plus an innate aptitude and maybe even Lance Armstrong's medicine chest. We don't mention it, because we assume you know it and will make the necessary sacrifices. At THAT level, making the bike more "efficient" matters. For all the rest of us, just add power.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)
Matt Gruber
1 MW
great advice from Goat!
all my EV's were factory built and sold by national chains.
got my ebike from walmart. cheap and STRONG weighs 82#. Engineered as an e-bike, not a conversion.
BUT it is NOT what you want
I'd rather have a slow strong ebike that won't have the fork break off someday.
all my EV's were factory built and sold by national chains.
got my ebike from walmart. cheap and STRONG weighs 82#. Engineered as an e-bike, not a conversion.
BUT it is NOT what you want
I'd rather have a slow strong ebike that won't have the fork break off someday.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
There are various iteration of the proverb: cost, performance, range...pick the most important two.
I'm going to interpret your "good inexpensive" title to mean that...you want something that is inexpensive and reliable. Without understanding what's available in the industry, you are asking quite a bit.
I read a lot...I have a lot of time to kill, and I like E-bikes, so...for whatever this is worth, here goes:
Builders who are "very happy" with the performance of their E-Bike generally fall into the fat part of a bell-curve of using a system using around 48V X 25A = 1,200W. Using 1,200W is at the top of the power level that works well with a geared hub motor (BPM, BMC, MAC), and right at the beginning at where a Direct-Drive (DD) hub motor begins to really shine.
In the real world of street commuters, I'd recommend a rear-hub Bafang-BPM as a good option, and ...for the newbie who suspected that they might want more power (heat) later...I'd recommend a DD Yescomusa rear hub as the affordable starter kit. Buying cheap components is always risky, but...I was also young once, so I understand the willingness to take on some risk once in a while. Quality is hard to define, but...experienced builders understand this, and are willing to pay extra for more quality and reliability...in order to eliminate more of the risk.
If you are willing to pay a little more for more liability and quality, stick with my top four vendors. ebikes.ca, em3ev.com, e-bikekit.com, and pingbattery.com
I'm going to interpret your "good inexpensive" title to mean that...you want something that is inexpensive and reliable. Without understanding what's available in the industry, you are asking quite a bit.
I read a lot...I have a lot of time to kill, and I like E-bikes, so...for whatever this is worth, here goes:
Builders who are "very happy" with the performance of their E-Bike generally fall into the fat part of a bell-curve of using a system using around 48V X 25A = 1,200W. Using 1,200W is at the top of the power level that works well with a geared hub motor (BPM, BMC, MAC), and right at the beginning at where a Direct-Drive (DD) hub motor begins to really shine.
In the real world of street commuters, I'd recommend a rear-hub Bafang-BPM as a good option, and ...for the newbie who suspected that they might want more power (heat) later...I'd recommend a DD Yescomusa rear hub as the affordable starter kit. Buying cheap components is always risky, but...I was also young once, so I understand the willingness to take on some risk once in a while. Quality is hard to define, but...experienced builders understand this, and are willing to pay extra for more quality and reliability...in order to eliminate more of the risk.
If you are willing to pay a little more for more liability and quality, stick with my top four vendors. ebikes.ca, em3ev.com, e-bikekit.com, and pingbattery.com
Goathead
100 W
Read between the lines, though. This is a guy who thinks that he'll have to switch shifters if he changes the number of cogs on the back-end. Unless he demonstrates otherwise, he's not a mechanic and can't or won't build his own his bike. (No fault implied, it's a big world with too much to know.)
Can't disagree a minute with spinningmagnets overall advice, just would say, he should request a sample kit from electricrider.com they are doing quality stuff (like washered spokes, even; like fitted shipping containers, even) you will add them to your list of vendors -- they're that good. (And you've got that kind of clout so why not get their super torque model and have some fun??)
I'd kind of also add that a CycleAnalyst (or equivalent, which I don't think exists) is a near must. There's KNOWING what your system is doing and then there's a guess. There are other ways to try to measure, but the CycleAnalyst is designed to the task (and can be programmed to keep your system out of the red-line zone). You want in on this hobby, you need the meter. That's the meter.
Know too, that what what makes a great bike doesn't necessarily make a great e-bike. Quite different forces and concerns.
Can't disagree a minute with spinningmagnets overall advice, just would say, he should request a sample kit from electricrider.com they are doing quality stuff (like washered spokes, even; like fitted shipping containers, even) you will add them to your list of vendors -- they're that good. (And you've got that kind of clout so why not get their super torque model and have some fun??)
I'd kind of also add that a CycleAnalyst (or equivalent, which I don't think exists) is a near must. There's KNOWING what your system is doing and then there's a guess. There are other ways to try to measure, but the CycleAnalyst is designed to the task (and can be programmed to keep your system out of the red-line zone). You want in on this hobby, you need the meter. That's the meter.
Know too, that what what makes a great bike doesn't necessarily make a great e-bike. Quite different forces and concerns.
tahustvedt
10 kW
Why not a Bafang crank drive? Easy to install. It only requires tools which are essential to any serious cyclist and adds little weight to the bike since you remove the weight of the old crank. It's not a converted hub motor but a sompact one piece package. It has a soft start as well. 
ScooterMan101
1 MW
@ babyhughie
That Cruiser Looks nice, I thought about doing the same with the Felt Board Track Racer .
I checked out the yescomusa 48 watt Hub rear , on my list because of the good price , however there are more now
on my list as well, read below .
( BTW If I could pick up a Felt Board Track Racer used, at a great price I would get it and power it for sure )
@ Goathead
I will start looking at the cheeper and heaver bikes, that seems to be the general consensus with most here
the only reason I was looking at a modern Road / Cyclocross is because I was not even going to do an electric drive, before I overexerted my self last week, and where I live there are many road bikes , this is an area that people come to ride ,
the back roads are filled each day with riders half my age riding bikes 4 to 5 times the cost of even the ones I was
looking at , I was really going for a low end Road/Cyclocross . But for Electric , I will now be looking at the more sturdy frame/component bikes.
@ Spinningmagnets
Looking at the 48 watt hub motors @ 25 amps , does indeed look to me now as the thing to do in a hub motor,
in regards to Ping Battery they seem to want to sell the 15 amp battery pack for 750 watt / 48 volt motors,
I would love to have 15 amps at 48 volts , but there goes up the price again . ( Yea everybody, I am finding to do it right , the cost has doubled to tripled as to what I had wanted to get .
However
Since the better hub motors are way up there in cost, so much so that , Perhaps , I would be better off getting I have been wanting in the first place anyway ... a Mid Drive !
Know anyone who is working on that ?
( I found your post , and have only made it to page 3 of what 35 or more pages ? )
and if your thread isn't enough , I found another thread, with , get this over 110 pages on the Bafang BBS02
So now if I go with a hub motor , it would Only be short term until I can get a turn key version of what you are working on
or the Bafang BBS02 750 watt with the upgraded controller .
@ tahustvedt
Yep, I have just found that thread yesterday , the thread about the Befang BBS02 with over 110 pages ! , ( however I lost how to find the thread again, I typed the Befang BBS02 in search but the newer long thread did not come up ) Is there someone Here in the U.S. that is selling the Befang BBS02 , with upgraded/fixed controller ? ( What Spinningmagnets is working on also looks good )
@ veloman
The Reason I was looking at a 27.5 is that I have a 14 year old 26 inch that I am selling to help pay for a new bike , it is time for a change, sometimes is it is best to get a fresh change from what you have had and have been doing.
so I have been looking at 700c Road/Cyclocross, 29 ers and 27.5 bikes , wondering which would I like to have for a number of upcoming years.
before I considered going electric.
I have found that the 29 er bikes have large frames and very poor standover heights for my body,
And
many people in the bike industry are talking about how the 27.5 is good for many more people than the 29's
also more of the manufactures' are dropping more 26 inch bikes from their line up, and making more 27.5's so it is coming , watch for 2015
Mountain bike line up , every year after , more and more 27.5's
By buying a complete 27.5 bike I would get all that is different ,
(Frame/Fork/Wheels/Tires . So those different items from the 26" are already there.
I don't have to worry about items that need replacement in the future l like the drive train / Bars/ Seat / Stem / Seat Post etc.
they are the same as 26inch and 29er, .
And now there is a high pressure road tire available for the 27.5 ( although I think they call the tire a 650c )
So I can ride a 27.5 on the street as well.
That Cruiser Looks nice, I thought about doing the same with the Felt Board Track Racer .
I checked out the yescomusa 48 watt Hub rear , on my list because of the good price , however there are more now
on my list as well, read below .
( BTW If I could pick up a Felt Board Track Racer used, at a great price I would get it and power it for sure )
@ Goathead
I will start looking at the cheeper and heaver bikes, that seems to be the general consensus with most here
the only reason I was looking at a modern Road / Cyclocross is because I was not even going to do an electric drive, before I overexerted my self last week, and where I live there are many road bikes , this is an area that people come to ride ,
the back roads are filled each day with riders half my age riding bikes 4 to 5 times the cost of even the ones I was
looking at , I was really going for a low end Road/Cyclocross . But for Electric , I will now be looking at the more sturdy frame/component bikes.
@ Spinningmagnets
Looking at the 48 watt hub motors @ 25 amps , does indeed look to me now as the thing to do in a hub motor,
in regards to Ping Battery they seem to want to sell the 15 amp battery pack for 750 watt / 48 volt motors,
I would love to have 15 amps at 48 volts , but there goes up the price again . ( Yea everybody, I am finding to do it right , the cost has doubled to tripled as to what I had wanted to get .
However
Since the better hub motors are way up there in cost, so much so that , Perhaps , I would be better off getting I have been wanting in the first place anyway ... a Mid Drive !
Know anyone who is working on that ?
( I found your post , and have only made it to page 3 of what 35 or more pages ? )
and if your thread isn't enough , I found another thread, with , get this over 110 pages on the Bafang BBS02
So now if I go with a hub motor , it would Only be short term until I can get a turn key version of what you are working on
or the Bafang BBS02 750 watt with the upgraded controller .
@ tahustvedt
Yep, I have just found that thread yesterday , the thread about the Befang BBS02 with over 110 pages ! , ( however I lost how to find the thread again, I typed the Befang BBS02 in search but the newer long thread did not come up ) Is there someone Here in the U.S. that is selling the Befang BBS02 , with upgraded/fixed controller ? ( What Spinningmagnets is working on also looks good )
@ veloman
The Reason I was looking at a 27.5 is that I have a 14 year old 26 inch that I am selling to help pay for a new bike , it is time for a change, sometimes is it is best to get a fresh change from what you have had and have been doing.
so I have been looking at 700c Road/Cyclocross, 29 ers and 27.5 bikes , wondering which would I like to have for a number of upcoming years.
before I considered going electric.
I have found that the 29 er bikes have large frames and very poor standover heights for my body,
And
many people in the bike industry are talking about how the 27.5 is good for many more people than the 29's
also more of the manufactures' are dropping more 26 inch bikes from their line up, and making more 27.5's so it is coming , watch for 2015
Mountain bike line up , every year after , more and more 27.5's
By buying a complete 27.5 bike I would get all that is different ,
(Frame/Fork/Wheels/Tires . So those different items from the 26" are already there.
I don't have to worry about items that need replacement in the future l like the drive train / Bars/ Seat / Stem / Seat Post etc.
they are the same as 26inch and 29er, .
And now there is a high pressure road tire available for the 27.5 ( although I think they call the tire a 650c )
So I can ride a 27.5 on the street as well.
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