Doctorbass
100 GW
Any contact?
These lithium battery reach up to 100C continuous and up to 20kW per kg
!!!
Doc
These lithium battery reach up to 100C continuous and up to 20kW per kg
!!!
Doc
Where to buy High POWER SAFT lithium battery?
- Thread starter Doctorbass
- Start date
Ypedal
100 TW
unless you work for a miliraty outfit... and plan to spend 100,000,000...... forget it.
Hugues
1 kW
Doctorbass said:
heck, are you planning to do Quebec-North Pole and back in one evening on your trike or what ?
Brentis
10 kW
I recall a CorbIn Sparrow on EBay not to long ago,
that had a large format Saft lithium cell rebuild.
Buy it now was $40k iirc
So they are trickling out some way.
They have quite a few interesting energy solutions,
and a very complete web site showing what they offer.
But alas, it seems unobtanium.
Here's to that changing.
that had a large format Saft lithium cell rebuild.
Buy it now was $40k iirc
So they are trickling out some way.
They have quite a few interesting energy solutions,
and a very complete web site showing what they offer.
But alas, it seems unobtanium.
Here's to that changing.
Doctorbass
100 GW
neptronix said:Sounds like someone needs Nanotech
Nanotech are crap compare to the saft high power model!!!!
They are 250C!!! and... for the 10Ah model.. they can hold 1200A ... C O N T I N U O U S !!!
Doc
liveforphysics
100 TW
They actually have more sag than a pair of 5Ah nano-tech cells, and for the same volume given to a battery, you get more energy, power, and less sag with Nano-techs. You also don't pay >$15/watt-hour like you do with Saft cells...
Ypedal
100 TW
How about just available!!!.. heck.. the 20c turnigy cells get the job done on my rides lol
Doctorbass
100 GW
Guys.. i'm comparing the power density.... not the availlability ( i know that a military product is more difficult to get as well.
And.. as for the sag... did you watched the spec?
Take a look !!
http://www.saftbatteries.com/doc/Do...heet.a2c55356-164e-4fe3-b957-86bbed023422.pdf
Discharge - 60°C to + 60°C !!!.. the nanotech would just not do the job at down to -60 !
Guys.. they are military stuff... nothing to compare with RC stuff !
That 5Ah cells can do.... 2 0 0 0 ampere continuous
Saft is the only compagny that i know that is doing lithium cells that do 20 000Watts per kg
talking about sag mean nothing if they can do up to 20KW per kg
This 5Ah cell can do 2000A continuous at 2.9V... that's 5800W for a cell that weight 350g... = 16 500W per kg average over the total discharge!!!
Please where is that nanotech that can do that ? :lol:
I know that a sinole 20C zippy or any rc lipo can do the job well... but for extreme built, that could be interesting!!!.. for the drag racing too !!
Doc
And.. as for the sag... did you watched the spec?
Take a look !!
http://www.saftbatteries.com/doc/Do...heet.a2c55356-164e-4fe3-b957-86bbed023422.pdf
Discharge - 60°C to + 60°C !!!.. the nanotech would just not do the job at down to -60 !
Guys.. they are military stuff... nothing to compare with RC stuff !
That 5Ah cells can do.... 2 0 0 0 ampere continuous
Saft is the only compagny that i know that is doing lithium cells that do 20 000Watts per kg
talking about sag mean nothing if they can do up to 20KW per kg
This 5Ah cell can do 2000A continuous at 2.9V... that's 5800W for a cell that weight 350g... = 16 500W per kg average over the total discharge!!!
Please where is that nanotech that can do that ? :lol:
I know that a sinole 20C zippy or any rc lipo can do the job well... but for extreme built, that could be interesting!!!.. for the drag racing too !!
Doc
jonescg
100 MW
How many Wh per kg Doc?
EDIT: only 50 Wh/kg? Better off with capacitors...
I'm going to show some interest when any cell can deliver >30 C continuous AND have an energy density of >200 Wh/kg and volumetric energy density of >400 Wh/litre. Then you can do some serious mileage!
EDIT: only 50 Wh/kg?
Better off with capacitors...I'm going to show some interest when any cell can deliver >30 C continuous AND have an energy density of >200 Wh/kg and volumetric energy density of >400 Wh/litre. Then you can do some serious mileage!
liveforphysics
100 TW
The 45-90C 5Ah nano-tech cell sitting on my desk here is 144g, and it's internal resistance is 0.8-0.9mOhm at room temp, dropping to 0.7mOhm at 35degC.
The Saft cell is 350g for a 5Ah cell, and it's internal resistance is about 1.2-0.8mOhm at room temp. I'm guessing it drops a bit with temp as well, so lets call it 0.7mOhm under a drag racing pack's conditions.
You can run a pair of Nano-tech cells in parallel, having 10Ah of capacity, and STILL be 20% lighter than a single Saft cell, and have a pack with roughly HALF the resistance, meaning half the voltage sag, meaning half the heat production for a given current load, etc.
Capacity doesn't matter when drag racing of course, but having half the voltage sag and having your battery be 20% lighter, and having your pack make half the heat all matter.
The Saft cell is 350g for a 5Ah cell, and it's internal resistance is about 1.2-0.8mOhm at room temp. I'm guessing it drops a bit with temp as well, so lets call it 0.7mOhm under a drag racing pack's conditions.
You can run a pair of Nano-tech cells in parallel, having 10Ah of capacity, and STILL be 20% lighter than a single Saft cell, and have a pack with roughly HALF the resistance, meaning half the voltage sag, meaning half the heat production for a given current load, etc.
Capacity doesn't matter when drag racing of course, but having half the voltage sag and having your battery be 20% lighter, and having your pack make half the heat all matter.
parabellum
1 MW
Can this SAFT cell swallow over 5w of heat in 9 sec? I must see that.
liveforphysics
100 TW
parabellum said:Can this SAFT cell swallow over 5w of heat in 9 sec? I must see that.
I'm guessing you mean 5wh of heat, or 18,000J of energy.
If you use a pretty typical specific heat of 900J/Kg*C for a cylindrical lithium ion cell, it's going to raise 57degC above it's starting point.
I know what you're saying though, locally at the end of the positive terminal (because this is the highest heat point and the point that uses aluminum current conductor foils), you're going to be seeing hot spots of double that, and I agree. If you're willing to pay the $$$ for it, they have electrolyte and high temp separator materials that can handle those crazy local temps, and I can actually believe the claims they make for discharge performance.
But it's still not better for racing than a nano-tech pack.
parabellum
1 MW
Thanks Luke, I am happy with Nanotechs as well and already out of ideas what to use them for. I am sure not that wealthy to consider SAFT batteries. Anyway, is there any info about cycle life? Can not find more then "• Long cycle and calendar life"
I am sure not that wealthy to consider SAFT batteries. Anyway, is there any info about cycle life? Can not find more then "• Long cycle and calendar life"Seriously, why would you need anything more than the nanotech? The nanotech can be completely drained in a few minutes, it's so powerful. Trying to shave a few pounds off your bike for a better 0-60 time?
Nanotech or those haiyin ev drag racing cells are really, truly good enough..
Nanotech or those haiyin ev drag racing cells are really, truly good enough..
Hugues
1 kW
neptronix said:Seriously, why would you need anything more than the nanotech? The nanotech can be completely drained in a few minutes, it's so powerful. Trying to shave a few pounds off your bike for a better 0-60 time?
Nanotech or those haiyin ev drag racing cells are really, truly good enough..
Do they make them in 10ah packs ? Can't find more than 5ah on the Turnigy web site
link appreciated if they make them in 10ah, that's a minimum for my week-end ride, 20ah would be better
and yes i can parallel them to come up to 10ah, but they would probably not fit anymore in my frame, running @ 72V, plus the issues with balancing...
thanks in advance
No, they don't. A pack made of 10AH cells wouldn't be any smaller than two 5AH cells in parallel.
If you can't fit 8 lipo packs into your frame, then that sucks. Lipo is currently the physically smallest battery we can buy ( other than allcell ), watt hour for watt hour, so you're not going to see an improvement elsewhere.
It's really not that big.. ( 30cal. ammo container, for size reference )
What do you mean by issues with balancing? if you have 8 known good packs, all hooked into parallel balance leads and well balanced from the start, you won't need to balance them for a hundred cycles or more.
Or plug them into a $$$ BMS and be done with it. There are no special balancing needs VS other chemistries anyway.
I would run them like so, in 10S groups, to be able to break apart a serial connection and charge them individually as 10S packs on an RC charger. For bulk charging, hook them up to a 20S voltage charger, or connect them in parallel and hook them into a 10S voltage charger.
( 20S / 20AH is pictured here, cut the amount of packs in half of course.. )
If you can't fit 8 lipo packs into your frame, then that sucks. Lipo is currently the physically smallest battery we can buy ( other than allcell ), watt hour for watt hour, so you're not going to see an improvement elsewhere.
It's really not that big.. ( 30cal. ammo container, for size reference )
What do you mean by issues with balancing? if you have 8 known good packs, all hooked into parallel balance leads and well balanced from the start, you won't need to balance them for a hundred cycles or more.
Or plug them into a $$$ BMS and be done with it. There are no special balancing needs VS other chemistries anyway.
I would run them like so, in 10S groups, to be able to break apart a serial connection and charge them individually as 10S packs on an RC charger. For bulk charging, hook them up to a 20S voltage charger, or connect them in parallel and hook them into a 10S voltage charger.
( 20S / 20AH is pictured here, cut the amount of packs in half of course.. )
Hugues said:neptronix said:Seriously, why would you need anything more than the nanotech? The nanotech can be completely drained in a few minutes, it's so powerful. Trying to shave a few pounds off your bike for a better 0-60 time?
Nanotech or those haiyin ev drag racing cells are really, truly good enough..
Do they make them in 10ah packs ? Can't find more than 5ah on the Turnigy web site
link appreciated if they make them in 10ah, that's a minimum for my week-end ride, 20ah would be better
and yes i can parallel them to come up to 10ah, but they would probably not fit anymore in my frame, running @ 72V, plus the issues with balancing...
thanks in advance
Bazaki
10 kW
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Messages
- 639
50 wh/kg isn't very interesting. But speaking about really big capacity cells, what can we expect in the future ?
I mean the last 10 years thanks to Hobbyking/China etc we now have high performance and affordable lipo cells.
But did the wh/kg also went up in the last 10 years ? And what kind of cells can we expect in the next 10 years.
Gasoline has bout 9 kwh/kg and at 25% efficiency that is still 2.25 kwh/kg I wonder if lipo cells ever will beat that and at an affordable price, I really hope it will
I mean the last 10 years thanks to Hobbyking/China etc we now have high performance and affordable lipo cells.
But did the wh/kg also went up in the last 10 years ? And what kind of cells can we expect in the next 10 years.
Gasoline has bout 9 kwh/kg and at 25% efficiency that is still 2.25 kwh/kg I wonder if lipo cells ever will beat that and at an affordable price, I really hope it will
liveforphysics
100 TW
sangesf said:
They are rechargable. 1C recomended, or 30C max burst rate charging.
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