Will a 500 watt hub motor handle 1000 watts?

[Tamaranchorider]

Hi all,

Kind of a newbie question, but I recently got another 1000 watt hub kit from Hallomotor and got a 13 amp controller instead of the 25 amp controller on my current 1000 watt kit. Bummer. And of course it doesn't get past 25 mph whereas my 1000 watt will do 32 mph. This new motor is using only 624 watts (13amps X 48volts).

So I've emailed customer service about the controller and requested the 25 amp controller.

Does any of the experienced builders here know if the 500 watt motor is the same as the 1000 watt with just a different controller? And will using this stronger controller burn out the motor quicker? I can't find any identifying marks or indication of winding on the website or on the motor itself, I haven't opened the motor yet but I wouldn't know what to look for.

I commute home at a little over 22 mph and will run it up to near 30 in some areas on the flats and my concern would be overheating if the motor is a 500 watt.

I burned out my other controller and halls on the 25 amp controller by running it constantly at full power up hills and rolling on the flats at 30. Fun, but not fun replacing the parts. I don't do that now and just happy to zip at around 25 mph.

Thanks!

 

[wesnewell]

I don't know about Hallomotor, but a 500W motor should not be the same as a 1000W motor. A 1000W rated motor can run 1000W under normal conditions 24/7. A 500W motor is only rated for 500W 24/7. That said, I've run over 3000W through a 500W dd motor for short periods of time without a problem. It will just burn up faster than a 1000W motor.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74403

 

[dogman dan]

Agree with above. even within motors that look identical, you could still have different rpm windings. It just depends on the seller, and whether they use the motor rated wattage or the controller max possible wattage in the sales pitch.

But if your motor is rated 500w,, chances are it can take 1500w if its a geared, and 2000w, even 3000w for a limited time if it's direct drive.

Motor rating is often stamped on the case of the motor, but not always.

Looking at hallomotor, and guessing which kit you bought, it looks like you get a typical 9 continent type direct drive motor. This is the kind that has a 28 mm magnet, and can handle up to 3000w briefly, and 2000w for a while.

You burnt out a motor? or just the controller? All you need is a decent controller, not the kind you get in a cheap kit. If you did cook off the halls in a motor, then you can fix that pretty easy.

I'd say go for it, and get a better quality 48v 30 amps controller. That will give you 1500w. And pedal some on those hills.

 

[Voltron]

I've been running about 3500 watts thru what was listed as aa 600 watt motor for about 10000 miles with no ill effects so far...

 

[Tamaranchorider]

Thanks everybody for the replies. I guess I need to hear from the company about the motor. I'm hoping that they just sent the wrong controller but in case they didn't I was hoping to run it at 1000 watts to get the extra miles an hour without burning the motor up.

I've commuted from San Francisco out to Marin County every day for 23 years now, its a bit hilly but I pedal moderately. Main reason I got the motor is to get home quicker and beat the headwinds (and getting a bit older). A 1000 watt motor takes 40 minutes off my trip of 25 miles.

I did change the halls myself and bearings on my other motor with a lot of research from this site and totally appreciate the wisdom. You guys rock!

 

[craneplaneguy]

FWIW: One of my rides came with a 36 vdc 350 watt Bafang hub motor. I now run it with a 52 vdc battery, through a new 52 vdc controller. LOTS faster!, I just avoid lugging it down and pretty much just street ride with it, so far so good.

 

[chas58]

You burnt out a motor? or just the controller? All you need is a decent controller, not the kind you get in a cheap kit. If you did cook off the halls in a motor, then you can fix that pretty easy.

What is the difference between a cheap and a decent controller?

I ask because I have somecheap $14 6mostfet controllers. I burnt a couple out running at a speed that needed most of their current (15 amps). I "fixed" the problem by taking the controller out of the bag and giving it fresh air and a heat sink. They only got "warm" in the bag, but apparently it was too warm.

I'm guessing if I have further problems, I need a controller that is happier giving 10-15 amps continous (and not more than 15). Any suggestions?

 

[dogman dan]

It's hard to quantify what makes a cheap controller worse. In my experience, most of the cheapies last a year, maybe even less, then some B grade part inside fails.

Other good controllers I have tend to last more than 5 years. I've never had a problem with a controller from E bike kit, ever. One still in weekly use that was from 2009. It took years, but I did finally wear out a 72v Lyens 12 fet. But two others also from 2009 running good as new. I think it's just a matter of the parts inside not being the cheapest crap they can find in china when they make them.

But I have cheap controllers too, so cheap that replacing them every year or so is no problem. Lately, liking the 48v 40 amps one from Jacks Musical on ebay, which has self learning. Super cheap, and when one did fail in a week, they replaced it with no hassles. The one I'm running now has lasted a year.

Smothering a really good controller in a bag will kill it, in my climate, for sure.

 

[Eskimo]

I have done now around 14 000 miles with two 500W 28mm MXUS DD"s. Front and rear. 22A controller, 54V topped.
500W DD handles 1000W just about in the long run. It depends greatly, on which speed. On low speed it gets very hot with 1kw.
On high speed 1kw is not bad at all. If you stay above 15mph, it takes overpower well. If you grind it under 10mph, it"s different question.

 

[Tamaranchorider]

Of course customer service insists that everything works and is the correct controller, but maybe the display (LCD-3) is not displaying properly. I've set the P and C values correctly.

What's interesting is that it will top out near 30mph on the flats, but it doesn't accelerate like a 1000watt. I looked at the controller again and there is a +-25 a for max output.

Anyone know how to test a controller? Probably should just buy a new good controller and be done with it.

 

[dogman dan]

Then you don't have a 15 amps controller.

That doesn't mean the controller is good,,, it's a hunk of shit. Fight with the vendor if you feel like it,, me,, I'd just f em and never buy from them again. You complain about a problem, and they tell you f off. Ok,, I f off permanently from sending them another dime.

Buy a cheap controller to replace it. one with self study to make hooking up easy.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Motor-Controller-48V-1500W-18-Fets-For-E-bike-Scooter-/361710328288?hash=item54379d99e0:g:hrgAAOSwxH1UG6Rt

This one also has self study,, because all three phase wires same color. twenty six bucks shipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bike-Brushless-Motor-Controller-48V-800W-32A-for-Electric-Scooters-/151314156946?hash=item233b06cd92:g:3u8AAOSw0fhXj0f1

With these cheap controllers I showed, you won't have any display btw.

 

[Tamaranchorider]

Then you don't have a 15 amps controller.

That doesn't mean the controller is good,,, it's a hunk of shit. Fight with the vendor if you feel like it,, me,, I'd just f em and never buy from them again. You complain about a problem, and they tell you f off. Ok,, I f off permanently from sending them another dime.

Buy a cheap controller to replace it. one with self study to make hooking up easy.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Motor-Controller-48V-1500W-18-Fets-For-E-bike-Scooter-/361710328288?hash=item54379d99e0:g:hrgAAOSwxH1UG6Rt

This one also has self study,, because all three phase wires same color. twenty six bucks shipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bike-Brushless-Motor-Controller-48V-800W-32A-for-Electric-Scooters-/151314156946?hash=item233b06cd92:g:3u8AAOSw0fhXj0f1

With these cheap controllers I showed, you won't have any display btw.

I take it you may have had a customer service problem like this before (lol).

I'm getting up to speed, so to speak on a lot of ebike particulars so I don't think I need a self study controller as long as the wiring is clear, not sure if I want to do that if I have to give up a display and maybe PAS. Thanks, Dogman I'll check around.

Overseas customer service is totally a pain when you articulate everything with photos and clear sentences and the reply comes back muddled. Takes days and a ton of patience.

 

[dogman dan]

Actually,, I work in customer service for E bike kit.com If it's not working they actually do something about it. But the kits are not cheap.

Something is clearly not right with your new kit,, and they won't even talk to you? They don't have to talk if they don't want to, but they do need to send you a new controller. If they won't,, f em.

Even with the cheap stuff, it's supposed to work when you get it. I paid like 25 bucks for a controller from Jacks Musical on ebay once,, It came and ran fine for a day, then died. I told them in detail how it failed, and they sent a new one in a few days. No hassle. That's the kind of vendor to buy from. Jacks is in china,, but the CS response was still immediate, (on a weekday) and a positive experience for me.

FWIW,, they aren't selling controllers at Jacks at the moment. If you want a really good quality controller, go to Grin Technologies.

 

[Tamaranchorider]

Actually,, I work in customer service for E bike kit.com If it's not working they actually do something about it. But the kits are not cheap.

Something is clearly not right with your new kit,, and they won't even talk to you? They don't have to talk if they don't want to, but they do need to send you a new controller. If they won't,, f em.

Even with the cheap stuff, it's supposed to work when you get it. I paid like 25 bucks for a controller from Jacks Musical on ebay once,, It came and ran fine for a day, then died. I told them in detail how it failed, and they sent a new one in a few days. No hassle. That's the kind of vendor to buy from. Jacks is in china,, but the CS response was still immediate, (on a weekday) and a positive experience for me.

FWIW,, they aren't selling controllers at Jacks at the moment. If you want a really good quality controller, go to Grin Technologies.

I'm on my third email this week with them.

I'm swapping out the 1000 watt wheel with another one I have from them, compare to the controller. Then, swapping out that controller with the new wheel and comparing that too.

They have been good at sending replacement parts, I did fry a previous controller and halls plus they sent out cover plates with bearings in them. But the language difference is a pain and they don't believe you the first time and insist on photos and videos. That's fair.

I did start looking at other controllers and will get one either way. Doesn't hurt to have spares.

 

[dogman dan]

Since I work for a vendor of e bike stuff,, I should shut up.

But you just said how much you needed to use the customer service of this company. Seems like you used it a lot. Maybe you are just hard on shit,, just like I am.

 

[Tamaranchorider]

Since I work for a vendor of e bike stuff,, I should shut up.

But you just said how much you needed to use the customer service of this company. Seems like you used it a lot. Maybe you are just hard on shit,, just like I am.

Actually Hallomotor's customer service is good just hard to get a straight, fast answer. This thread was just asking if I have a 500watt wheel and if it could take more power.

I looked at those Grin controllers and the specs are great, but it looks like I would need a cycle analyst for a display instead of an lcd3.

San Francisco hills are tough on controllers even if you gear down and pedal too, that was what fried the first ebike kit and the bearings were Hallomotors QC problem. Lots of emails and videos.

 

[999zip999]

So what's is needed for the hills of S.F. ? A middrive ? Wait a second what Hills of San Francisco there's some tough ones out there.

 

[Tamaranchorider]

So what's is needed for the hills of S.F. ? A middrive ? Wait a second what Hills of San Francisco there's some tough ones out there.

My commute home is out to Fairfax (25 miles) and I will take routes up Polk or Sansome to the Marina and they're all short ones I can assist with a low gear and pedal, the approach to the bridge and Alexander avenue through Sausalito are not bad, about 300 feet of climbing each.

What killed a previous controller and halls was GOING to work and using full throttle and PAS 5. I had enough battery, but the hills going to work are a bit steeper and longer going out of Sausalito and I smoked the controller by the time I got to the Golden Gate bridge. What I learned from this was to not max out the watts and pedal earnestly when climbing. Also mounting the controller under the rear rack to get air flowing around it definitely keeps it cooler.

I've been doing this with a 1000watt front hub. I like it because the weight balance with the battery and panniers on the back evens it all out. I have seen a couple of middrives when out mountain biking or on cargobikes, but most bikes I see in town are hub motors. The advantage IMO, is that the front hub is easier to fix a flat, doesn't mess with the drivetrain and very simple mechanically.

I have gone up California St. From the financial district and it was a blast!