Will Bosch modify their motors for the disabled?

[knut7]

I've been sick for a couple of years and I'm not responding very well to physical activity. I got tired of my old Q100 build and swapped it for a Cannondale Tramount with the Bosch mid motor. In retrospect that wasn't a wise decision. The old bike had a cadence only sensor that provided assistance even if I was pedaling without putting any power into the pedals, also it had the option of a hand throttle. The Cannondale higher max power, but only if I contribute with a fair bit too. Anyone know if the motor can be tuned/tweaked by Bosch to suit my needs? There are 3 possible solutions that I can think of. 1 Hand throttle. 2 Cadence only sensor that will provide max assistance at say 70rpm. 3 Increase the % of assistance for one or more levels, say the highets Level will provide 400% rather than 270%.

I've asked my local dealer, they didn't know and said they had to ask Cannondale since Bosch probably wouldn't anser them directly. I've sent an email to Cannondale from their website, but I got no confirmation that it had been sent. I tried the Bosch Vendor email, no reply and I don't ecpect I will ever get one. It's been about a week of wait, so now I'm asking you guys in stead.

Thx

 

[tomjasz]

Someone somewhere has a hack. I'm certain.

 

[knut7]

Someone somewhere has a hack. I'm certain.

Yeah, I've read there are hacks available for gen2 now, removing the 25kph speed limit is not a priority btw. I really would prefer if Bosch could handle this, I'd like to keep the warranty on the bike a bit longer

 

[tomjasz]

I'm sure you would, but given their market you may have no choice. Believe me I understand. I'm disabled and without a throttle I would not be riding.

 

[--freeride--]

Look out for something else, Bosch is the only System that can't be modified at all (exept for the speed limit). At every other system a qualified bikeshop could cange some settings. At a Bosch system he only can switch your light on and read out how many charges you did...

The bosch battery is shit and they are limiting the system in all direktions... If the Battery is under 70% they only let me pedal with 65rpm what is very efficent for the motor, but very unefficent for my as i like to pedal 100rpm.(I need twise as much battery than i use on my China build and only have half tha capacity because the Bosch battery is so small).

Last week i tried to climb a very short steep grade with the bosch. I went in lowest reduction and it just refuesed to go up there and cut of the Motor.

I climbed up there with my Bafang BBS several times befor...

 

[knut7]

I'm sure you would, but given their market you may have no choice. Believe me I understand. I'm disabled and without a throttle I would not be riding.

Been looking into this and all I can find is speed hacks :/

 

[knut7]

Look out for something else, Bosch is the only System that can't be modified at all (exept for the speed limit). At every other system a qualified bikeshop could cange some settings. At a Bosch system he only can switch your light on and read out how many charges you did...

Yeah, seems you're right, there's no way to adjust that motor to my needs. Battery life has been good for me btw.

Right now I'm almost tempted to spend way too much money one the Rubbee (1.0), that way I can use my road bike and FS too. But with 14.4v battery it probably doesn't like climbs... Can the new Yamaha motor be tuned? Or is building something with Bafang BBS the only sensible way to go if I want mid motor?

 

[teklektik]

AFAIK the Bosch uses a FAG torque sensor that has signals similar to the Thun BB. That means there should be two hall-based quadrature-encoded signals that convey direction and cadence and a third analog voltage that scales 0-100Nm of torque. This last signal might be finagled to help resolve your difficulty. If you are a tinkerer, you might disconnect the torque level signal from the sensor and substitute your own 'torque level' signal to dupe the Bosch unit into thinking you were pedaling your butt off.

• You might consider substituting a "Torque Level" knob that allows you to manually set the rider pedal toque instead of using the actual signal. This would end up being a pot to adjust the torque and a couple of resistors to scale the signal into the proper portion of the 0-5v range. This would convert the bike to 'cadence only'.
  
  The downside would be that this is not the same as changing the assist level multiplier so getaways might be somewhat more harsh since the bike will think you are applying heavy torque even at low cadence. Whether this gives the 'feel' that you want is unknown and kind of a crap-shoot.
  
  This is exactly the setup I have on my bike using a CA V3, simple cadence wheel, and a pot to set 'rider torque'. This rides nicely and gives rpm-scaled assist with an adjustable assist level without the cost of an expensive torque-sensing BB. The difference from the Bosch is that I can adjust the multiplier in the CA to get different performance levels - something that Bosch won't allow - so my 'level adjust' scales up over a wider power range instead of being a narrower range that simply starts out higher as the Bosch hack would do.
  
  
• An alternative would be use a hall or resistive throttle (Magura) in place of the torque knob. This would not behave like a regular throttle but instead would allow you to dial up the rider pedal torque so you could ease into the power as you start pedaling and then increase the assist to get the boost you want for the present cadence. This is a little odd, but should give a pretty nice feel and allow you to dial up maximum assist even if just faux pedaling.

Just a thought....

 

[knut7]

Thanks teklektik, I just sold my bike at a decent price, so it seems modifying it won't be necessary any more

So I'm looking for a new bike. I'm considering both getting a prebuilt one or building one. Is there any other motors that will suit me better? I'm guessing the Continental and Yamaha motors really arent that much different from Bosch when it comes to tuneability and required rider power input.

 

[ScooterMan101]

knut7,

Are you able to get a Motor like the MAC or other 500 + watt motor ... or others like it , shipped to Norway ?

I test road several peddle , and or , peddle and torque , assist bikes here in California, and they all were pathetic .

I am going through the learning process of converting a bike after test riding the production bikes.

You can PM me if you want.

 

[knut7]

Hi ScooterMan101

Yeah, most shops are willing to ship ebike parts to Norway. I've previously built a bike with a small hub motor. But I wanted mid motor this time, so I bought a slightly used fatbike with BBS01 a few days ago. I prefer a pretty lightweight bike with good range over speed, so allthough I can go faster than the 15mph law limit I don't want to.

 

[ScooterMan101]

You now have had three different electric bikes in the last few months ?

Do allot of People in Norway have electric bikes ?

I lived in Sweden for a few months , many years ago and often wonder what things are like in Scandinavia these days .
Is there allot of Paragliding there in Norway ?

I can see a preference for going farther rather than faster. Especially since Norway is not so Flat , I got a fast hub because it is my first build , and did not know that I could get a motor with more torque, I am still building it up so time will tell if I drive it fast or slow with more range.

Hi ScooterMan101

Yeah, most shops are willing to ship ebike parts to Norway. I've previously built a bike with a small hub motor. But I wanted mid motor this time, so I bought a slightly used fatbike with BBS01 a few days ago. I prefer a pretty lightweight bike with good range over speed, so allthough I can go faster than the 15mph law limit I don't want to.

 

[knut7]

Yeah, it's my 3rd in half a year, looking for a bike that suits my needs properly. Thankfully ebike supply in Norway is a bit low, so I'm able to sell them on without much loss I rarely see other people on ebikes, so I wouldn't say they're particulary popular here.

Scandinavia is good I guess. Our currency isn't keeping up with the U$D, so ebikes are getting more expensive :-o But we're still good I live close to the capital, not much paragliding here. But 10 years ago I lived in Bergen, the western part of the country, and there people were gliding down the mountain side every now and then, dunno if it's a big community though.

 

[Ade]

Yeah, it's my 3rd in half a year, looking for a bike that suits my needs properly. Thankfully ebike supply in Norway is a bit low, so I'm able to sell them on without much loss I rarely see other people on ebikes, so I wouldn't say they're particulary popular here.

Scandinavia is good I guess. Our currency isn't keeping up with the U$D, so ebikes are getting more expensive :-o But we're still good I live close to the capital, not much paragliding here. But 10 years ago I lived in Bergen, the western part of the country, and there people were gliding down the mountain side every now and then, dunno if it's a big community though.

I live in a small (hilly) town an hour or so away from Oslo and there are 2 of us that have e-bikes in my office of 35. Where I park my bike there's at least a 3 more of them usually and I know of a couple that pass by my house coming home from work in the evening. I've notice the guy with the Bosch mid-drive bike hasn't been parking in work lately though - too cold for it perhaps (-12C this moring).

Hard to say how popular they are around here really - quite a few people ride bikes to work though so I'm guessing they will start to take off more and more as the prices get better and e-bike shops become more common, like this; http://www.sykkelcenteret.no/sykkel/el-sykkel

 

[knut7]

Hey Ade, do you use studded tires on the fatty? Which ones?

 

[Ade]

Hey Ade, do you use studded tires on the fatty? Which ones?

There are currently few choices for off the rack studded fat tires; I ride Dillinger 4.0 studded which are just about that, maybe a few mm wider on my 102mm (4") rims. I would have liked a set of Dillinger 5.0 but availability and price (another 1000kr for a pair) were factors. I also wasn't sure if they'd fit under my fenders. The 4.0 are incredible on ice and I haven't slipped once on ice since I got them so there's no reason to complain.

I've read good things about the new studded Vee Snowshoe XL too - they are huge though.

 

[knut7]

Dillinger 4 comes in two versions, the 27tpi with wire bead and flat studs, the other is the 120tpi folding bead and hollow studs. I've got the 27tpi version and I'm not happy with the ice grip. Which one have you got?

 

[Ade]

Dillinger 4 comes in two versions, the 27tpi with wire bead and flat studs, the other is the 120tpi folding bead and hollow studs. I've got the 27tpi version and I'm not happy with the ice grip. Which one have you got?

The 120tpi with concave studs. They are supposed to be better. AFAIK you can just buy the concave studs and the stud tool and replace yours - not particularly cheap though. Also, what pressure you running your tires at? People seem to think it can make a large difference on how the studs bite into the ice - mine are about 10psi.