Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[Hillhater]

The WHO know what they are talking about. You do not. You twist existing data to support LIES about the state of things. .......

Where is the twisting of data ?

...If electric cars are on the roads in numbers in 2060 they will be AUTOMATED. They will not be killing significant numbers of people. They will still be an insignificant fraction of vehicles still on the road. These non-automatous vehicles which WILL be killing people at present rates. Both directly in collision accidents; and indirectly through deleterious environmental and health impacts from their emissions.

So, you are saying the WHO have included deaths by pollution/emissions in the “Road Injury” totals,...but not in the “Climate Related ” numbers. ?...
...and infact you suggest most of the pollution related deaths are in the “Cardiovascular” numbers. ?
That doesnt seem to be a very clear , sensible , or accurate identification of cause’s by the WHO .!
But i thought the Great Plan was to “ban” the sale of ICE vehicles by2035/2040 ?... such that by 2060 there should be a major proportion of EVs on the road..... ( tighter emissions regulations will have eliminated most other ICEs by then presumeably ?)
Automated or not, EVs or ICEs,...if “the WHO know what they are talking about”..then they still believe that VEHICLES will kill many more people than ALL CLIMATE RELATED EFFECTS.

 

[Hillhater]

Texas... a state that leads in Wind power, is not having a good time currently..
75% of the state is experiencing blackouts due to power shortages..

As I understand it, one third of Texas power generating ability is offline. Are you saying a third of Texas' power comes from wind? You must be, otherwise you are deliberately misinterpreting the CEO's statement to create a false equivalency. You are better than that.

On Munday, Texas wind power was reported at a low of just 900MW out of 31,000MW installed capacity .
..And, as of about 6 hours ago. reports were that there was almost no wind in Texas today.
.....I would call that a failure to supply.
However,—Natural gas operates under a curtailment rule that requires supply to residential customers first. Therefore some natural gas electric plants are short of fuel due to restricted output from some frozen raw gas feed lines from the wells.

 

[Chalo]

My power has been off continuously for 60 hours now and counting. It has nothing to do with wind turbines, whose supply is expected to be intermittent even in the best case. The real problem is that many coal and gas fired power stations, which are expected to pick up base load when other sources can't, have failed because their water supplies froze. Both the wind turbines and the fossil plants could have been winterized, but weren't because it would have cut into profits slightly.

Texas privatized its electric grid years ago so that rich fux could play casino by trading electric power. This is really what's at the bottom of the massive failure we're seeing.

 

[Dauntless]

The Hill country is out for 7th day, part way to San Antonio there's the occassional few hours of power. They say the problem is downed lines, in some cases poles.

Yeah, we all know the real problem is those rich people flicking the switches off and laughing.

 

[Chalo]

The Hill country is out for 7th day, part way to San Antonio there's the occassional few hours of power. They say the problem is downed lines, in some cases poles.

Yeah, we all know the real problem is those rich people flicking the switches off and laughing.

Yeah... no. Downed power lines weren't what took tens of thousands of MWh offline. That's due to starving the system of maintenance and needed improvements to increase profitability.

Speculative market prices for grid electricity peaked so high they had to be capped at around 100X the retail price billed to end users.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-texas-power-prices-idUSKBN2AH0U0

Make no mistakes; this IS a rich-fux problem.

 

[neptronix]

Yeah... no. Downed power lines weren't what took tens of thousands of MWh offline. That's due to starving the system of maintenance and needed improvements to increase profitability.

Speculative market prices for grid electricity peaked so high they had to be capped at around 100X the retail price billed to end users.

Power utilities are one of the most government regulated industries in the USA. The government determines the price to residential customers in most states. Many utilities complain that these rates are too low to provide adequate maintenance. This is particularly a problem in California with PG&E - they're repeatedly told to provide rates below the actual cost of production, so rolling blackouts are the most frequent there.

From an economics perspective, rolling blackouts make sense to preserve transformers and power lines when demand gets too high. Stopping sale of your key product is not a way to get rich - but it may temporarily make some people rich in speculation markets, if their timing is right.

Communist style market controls always produce results like these. Shame that we've subjected a critical infrastructure to it

All the more reason to invest in alternative energy for your own dwelling.

 

[Chalo]

Power utilities are one of the most government regulated industries in the USA. The government determines the price to residential customers in most states.

This isn't most states; this is the crony capitalist paradise of Texas, USA. This is where the state grid divorced itself from the national grid, just so it could operate as a gambling house for electrical prices. It's the opposite of communism. And despite your allegations about socialized power grids, this one has been squeezed harder of needed upkeep than any of those, purely for profit.

At this point, I'd be doing much better in a communist system. At worst, the rolling blackouts would keep rolling, rather than coming to my house and staying for days while empty office buildings and luxury tract houses experience no interruptions.

 

[nicobie]

So now I guess that ass Ted Cruz will call Texas a "failed state' like he did California when it had to resort to rolling blackouts last summer.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Dauntless]

At this point, I'd be doing much better in a communist system. At worst, the rolling blackouts would keep rolling, rather than coming to my house and staying for days while empty office buildings and luxury tract houses experience no interruptions.

Comrade, communist people welcome you. And of course your money and personal possessions to be redistributed to those in need greater than yourself.

In communist country there is no luxury tracts to power except those of government that you are not to see, ignore this. You tell now as you are correctly to tell once you arrive and see otherwise. Do not speak of this again. Do not talk of problems always much worse than you see now. . . .

 

[Dauntless]

Oops, they fear that the Texas grid may be as bad as a communist country. That'll get it fixed. Nobody will stand for communist power.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tech/2021/02/18/ed-hirs-texas-energy-grid-collapse-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

 

[TheBeastie]

I see the same old retarded arguments for Texas as I have seen for other states that have gone massively wind/solar and get a major power outage "it's technically not renewables fault..."

The truth behind it all is that when you massively increase the budget on supplying electricity via renewables you also start massively cutting corners for reliability just to try and not break the electricity supply budgets or end power-bills.

It was the same with South Australia's major blackout, they spent a ton on wind/solar and didn't spend on the basics to provide reliability, and rather than admit it they double down and build an even bigger storage battery etc.

It's just like having three cars to try and go green, you have a regular combustion car, a solar car for sunny days and a wind-car for windy days. Normally the car transport budget only has to look after one single car keep it serviced and reliable, but with renewables you need a budget to support three cars so you naturally start cutting cost corners and it all just fails when you really need it to work, it's the same story in every country year after year.

When it's clear they ignore the real solutions like nuclear it then becomes a fact it is all for political power and money, so many people made a killing in renewables from Al Gore to the Lazard hedge fund and no-body politicians, the truth sits in your face but you don't even see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARDXlyq3EgI
[youtube]ARDXlyq3EgI[/youtube]

 

[Dauntless]

I see the same old retarded arguments for Texas as I have seen for other states that have gone massively wind/solar and get a major power outage "it's technically not renewables fault..."

If Texas owns its' own grid, how is crony capitalism to blame? (I mean, beyond the fact you simply want it to be?)

Ah well, some of my relatives got their power back Thursday. Haven't heard from Mom, but she's got her solar during the day and her generator as long as the propane lasts, she'll hold out.

It's just like having three cars to try and go green, you have a regular combustion car, a solar car for sunny days and a wind-car for windy days.

Oh man, now THAT was car owner porno for ya. How about if people go Gonzo and print their own? But if one parent drove a cheap two seat electric to the nearby job, the teenager could use it to go on dates, etc., makes one solid extra car. If only rich people did this, that's still a few million cars at a few thousand miles a year each, could add up to 10 billion miles and therefore a half billion gallons of gas. That's a valuable savings.

Sorry, I just can't root for nuclear power. The radiation will outlive us. In some cases the radiation itself ensures it outlives us. And they say the available fissle could at most double the amount of nuclear we have. Short of some serious fusion advances nuclear is not the future.

 

[markz]

I wonder what percentage of the "preppers" are Texan. They can go a long time with store shelves empty and have a generator or two laying around and water purification systems. Our lights went out for a few hours last month and I spent an hour feeling around for a flashlight. Its very rare for the electricity to go out here. Its more common to have the internet go down, that seems to happen quite frequently and they do it late night, its purposefully so. I felt quite bored not having electricity, but not having internet is just as bad. I watch a lot of content online fromt he tv.

 

[Dauntless]

Texas preppers. I didn't live there, but I grew up with the understanding that there was a certain readiness among my relatives. So now the little kids when I was a little kid are the adults and I wonder how much of that changed.

Mom was a prepper. She has a basement full of canned goods she never rotated, as in she didn't use them with new replacements bought and put to the back. They've been past date for awhile. No, mother, you are NOT ready for anything. The problem with being prepared is you have to STAY prepared.

Just like you have to keep everything working to stay offgrid. Mom gave up. But she still had the whole setup, and she needed it.

 

[Ianhill]

Ive been prepared for years soon as anarchy kicks off i got a list of humans im gonna eat.
More we separate ourselfs and get addicted to checking a phone screen every 5 mins less human we get as we lose the feeling of belonging we get from being in a group.
Even loners need interaction we are pack animals ans the interaction we receive digitally is highly dangerous to the words wof wisdom our elders would have told us long before this digtial age took hold.
Currency is forcing greed capitalism at its best theres no good to come only pain the greed has stripped the spine out of everything theres little time left to stage a fight and now the faces to hit.
The trillionare familys operating silently behind a screen are getting more distant and less reachable by law everyday and they willnturn the world upside down before handing it over piecefully and allowing economic principles to change.
In a world of green idoloilgy they preach such as prince charles etc they consume more carbon than us all while eating the finest meats at dinners we can only dream of the hypocrisy is getting sickening.
Attenborough chats shit about the poles melting twats been there more than anyone i know travels the world by jet with a team of people consuming resources and tells me to stop cutting trees down silly fuker chanting at the wrong people.
I dont think we need to be carbon neutral behonest just more carbon aware and other green house gases silly to make a hole in atmosphere but i cant have a camp fire even though i never been on a plane but they operate away burning more than my yearly total in one flight and you moan at me.
Bring on a fare carbon tax that stops thenrich but that wont be the case it be a congetion charge like london £10 a day to bring in a v8 or whatever and rich twats be like £3650 tax deductable in some way or another over the year while poor people can't even afford a train cuz its all wanked.

 

[markz]

More money means more lobbying power to get their way.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/19/22291426/texas-blackouts-utility-bills-electricity-cost-energy-insecurity

 

[ZeroEm]

Thought I would never see Coal, Natural Gas and Gasoline fail us in Texas but my electric car was worked good, drove around and charged phones in outage.

 

[Hillhater]

Thought I would never see Coal, Natural Gas and Gasoline fail us in Texas but my electric car was worked good, drove around and charged phones in outage.

?? How did Gasoline fail ?...
.. i seem to recall thousands of Texans were “saved” by using gas generators in their yards !
Coal, Gas and Nuclear, were the ONLY generation working at times during that cluster F*ck in Texas.
Texas would have been much better off if they had more Coal and/or Nuclear.
What failed there was the policy of deregulation and subsidies for Wind investment, which prioritised those unreliable RE sources at the expense of FF plants.
Basicly, political decisions where there should have been Engineering decisions.

 

[ZeroEm]

by Hillhater » Feb 25 2021 6:03pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Feb 22 2021 7:03pm
Thought I would never see Coal, Natural Gas and Gasoline fail us in Texas but my electric car was worked good, drove around and charged phones in outage.

?? How did Gasoline fail ?...
.. i seem to recall thousands of Texans were “saved” by using gas generators in their yards !
Coal, Gas and Nuclear, were the ONLY generation working at times during that cluster F*ck in Texas.
Texas would have been much better off if they had more Coal and/or Nuclear.
What failed there was the policy of deregulation and subsidies for Wind investment, which prioritised those unreliable RE sources at the expense of FF plants.
Basicly, political decisions where there should have been Engineering decisions.

I see you do understand, politics are not common sense. "Texans were saved by gasoline generators in their yards" Did you see this and where was this at, I live here and did not see anyone saved. I think your mixing up people using gasoline cars and trucks to charge their phones as being saved.

Could write a page or two on this but not an expert, just lived in cold weather States. Will keep it short.

Did hear two small generators after the second day with out power. So two people had limited power but the gasoline stations were closed, they did not have generators.
Natural Gas kept flowing so I stayed warm, have a 60,000 BTU heater no electronics. Rechargeable lithium flashlights and bike lights and phones charged from my leaf.
Only regret my DC to DC power supply on my trike had quit and never replaced it so could not tap into my trikes two batteries. Put the frozen food outside and the chilled food inside a insulated food cart for shopping to keep from freezing, also outside.

Texas went thru this 10 yrs ago and was promised that it would be fix but it was only made worse with no regulation at all. Pure capitalists' energy system, except San Antonio's CPS is owned by the people but does not make enough for the growing city. What was brought in was cut off.

The Coal plants, Solar and Nuclear were ok. Natural Gas has water in it and a lot of lines froze as well as some of the Wind turbines that were not serviced for cold weather. The main issue is we have no extra capacity, every summer they warn us of power outages when it get's hot.

We have natural gas here, kept me warm. All the new housing is big and all electric. Gasoline stations need electric to pump gas.
When they shut of the electric all the pipes started freezing in all electric homes. We had one pipe freeze that went into the back building away from the house. It was copper so cut it off at the ground and crimped it shut. We did way better than most but more solar, wind generation and nuclear would have been better.

As far as generators it would have been hard to get enough gasoline for a big full house generator but one that run on NG would have been good. The problem is we just don't have that many days a year with out power to pay for a back up supply. I think about it all the time.

 

[nicobie]

Does your Leaf use a 12v battery for it's controls and accessories? If so you could use the cars dc-dc converter to power a 120v inverter from the 12v battery for limited household power. My Volt has a 2000W dc-dc converter built in that I use with a 1500W inverter in emergencies.

 

[Dauntless]

Among the news reports were the Ford truck “Pro Power Onboard” feature that generated 2kw to 7.2kw depending on the size of the engine. https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/powerboost-7-2kw-onboard-generator-saves-the-day-3-days-during-texas-power-outage.1826/

FEMA sent big generators and lots of them, not sure what they did.

Briggs & Stratton says they shipped many to Texas after the storm.

 

[markz]

So much for saving the whales and hugging tree's, adding to air pollution with generators.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/173568/power-problems-generators-add-to-air-and-noise-pollution

These generators emit particulate matter containing burnt hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen, which add to air pollution. If the generator is not in good condition, it can also emit unburnt hydrocarbons, which are even worse for the environment.

Not to mention hoardes of cities outlawing idling to again save the whales and hug the tree's. Laws being put in place to save car emissions by auto stop/start or cylinder deactivation. I wonder if the big Ford v8 Power Stroke 6.7L diesel used in the F450 would generate 7200W. Buying a 12kw generator from the local Home Depot would be better, even if its stored away so when the storm hits the your not standing at the empty genie shelf. I wouldnt want my $80k Ford idling for days on end just to power some heaters, fridge and TV. Idling is the worst. Some of the newer diesel trucks its healthier to haul heavy loads.
How much power would the Ford F150 put out?
3.5-liter EcoBoost V6
5.0-liter V8
New for 2021, however, is the 3.5-liter PowerBoost Full Hybrid V6.

Among the news reports were the Ford truck “Pro Power Onboard” feature that generated 2kw to 7.2kw depending on the size of the engine. https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/powerboost-7-2kw-onboard-generator-saves-the-day-3-days-during-texas-power-outage.1826/

FEMA sent big generators and lots of them, not sure what they did.

Briggs & Stratton says they shipped many to Texas after the storm.

 

[Dauntless]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/us/avalanche-death-covid-trnd/index.html

So avalanches are now Covid related deathes. The article basically argues that the warmer climate has been saving lives but the shutdown and the weather effect are making things worse. Somehow always find a culprit to blame.

 

[John in CR]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/us/avalanche-death-covid-trnd/index.html

So avalanches are now Covid related deathes. The article basically argues that the warmer climate has been saving lives but the shutdown and the weather effect are making things worse. Somehow always find a culprit to blame.

Yes, always a culprit, just as long as it's not China, who kept info about the outbreak suppressed for as long as possible while their contagious visitors and travelers spread it all around the world. The Wuhan facility that was doing gain of function research on those specific viruses can't be a culprit according to major media. That would get classified as a conspiracy theory by the same people who would have us believe that 20 or so far right wackjobs were dangerous enough to create an actual insurrection. I don't know which is worse, those pushing the insurrection story or the half of public who believe it.

 

[Chalo]

The ones who did the most relevant information suppression here were Repug politicians who told us there was nothing to worry about, while at the same time rearranging their stock portfolios to profit from the pandemic.

Word was out in the international community weeks to months before it got here. I don't doubt that some Chinese apparatchiks got in the way of good reporting, but the Chinese handling of the crisis versus the USA's response speaks for itself.

Half a million dead, and counting. I've gotten my first round of vaccine, but most of the people I know haven't had the chance.