With the sh*t that gets kickstarted - We should do our own.

[SHiFT]

We've all seen it - Run-of-the-mill bikes raking in hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars, in Crowd-Funded projects on the promise of what? - The same thing A2B tried to sell, the same thing 1000+ sellers on eBay will ship to you from china. Look:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1354698863/barak-electric-bicycle-conversion-kit-electrify-yo
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wave-electric-28-mph-bike
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/faradaybikes/faraday-porteur
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sondors-electric-bike
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1585753369/folding-electric-bike-for-commuters
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/urb-e-the-world-s-most-compact-e-vehicle

None of these is incredibly remarkable. Sure, some are novel, compact, folding, what have you. But few if any, are unique, few are new, or revolutionary.

Why aren't you guys getting funded? With the innovations and creativity you have brought to this hobby why do these guys with nothing more than a rehashed version of something we can already buy, get the cash to build a business?

Imagine - this community, putting it's heads together to create our own campaign.
"Owning" the campaign could be veterans:
Recumpense, LiveForPhysics, Aussie, Miles, Dogman, Amber Wolf, John in CR, DoctorBass, yPedal and others.
I'm volunteering you to carry out the bulk of the engineering, really, it's just putting into one bike the knowledge you already have.

"Contributing" ideas, marketing, engineering skills, parts, time etc could be the rest of us.

I'm 80% serious.

If we put our heads and resources together we could design a bike, a campaign, and all the marketing needed to earn hundreds of thousands in backing.

We could create something unique that people need and don't even know it. It wouldn't be a rehash of the same old formula, but something truly new - A new kind of transportation that is not just a bike with e-assist, or a kit, or a folding this, or a cheapest that.

Receiving the funding could be a corporation owned in equal parts by the veterans, or even some sort of trust (not a finance expert).
That corporation then would spend money to build out the business, so no one person could run off with everything.

For contributions of the other ES members, we could get reduced pricing on finished bikes - if all we were to do was contribute some ideas.
For bigger contributors like engineering effort, machining, molding, resources, time, etc, they could get an actual free bike once complete.
And of course, any of us could donate to the actual campaign for those rewards.

I look around here and I see ideas, engineering, and machines that represent the most innovative stuff in the industry. And frankly, some of these crowd-funding campaigns have learned directly from the research and trial and error happening here and other places like ES.
Sure, some of us have built companies, and that is awesome, but there are a LOT more of us who have not.

If you want to make it more than a hobby, I say why not give it a try?

 

[Dauntless]

I think these people have bikes they could INDIVIDUALLY put out there.

 

[dogman dan]

Not really in this for the money. I'd almost do my job at E-bikekit for free.

Nor am I into the idea of doing a campaign, then giving a few people a bike, but most get a book about e bikes.

 

[daddz]

what we really need is a kickstarter to put adds all over the world extolling the virtues of ebikes, if the masses see it, the masses want it

 

[SHiFT]

I hear you. But that is the point, right, to find a way to continue doing what we love?

Doing this for free, or paying for parts out of pocket, buying machinery and equipment, all of that is a luxury. I'm not earning enough to do this as a regular hobby. I'm selling old stuff on eBay, advertising tech skills on craigslist, and selling my beloved previous project, so I can get extra funds to put toward my next bike. I'm sure there are many others here who are in similar situations, trying to squeeze every dollar, skill, and resource, to indulge this passion.

I never planned to make a dime on my current bike, or the next one for that matter. Surely, many of us do this for the joy of it. I get it. But if you could build a company with the help of crowd-funding to sell your creations as a product, to support a self-sustaining business... Then you could always do it, and experiment, and create new stuff. And hey, getting paid to do something you love ain't so bad, is it? Besides, you'd be sharing your creations with so many people who, in turn, would modify, upgrade, and tinker with their bike, and so on.

Perhaps an unrealistic dream - but as I said at the start of this thread - there is a lot of the same rehashed junk getting funded. Why not us - Why not you, and the people creating the knowledge that these other people use to build their companies?

 

[999zip999]

Shift now that you got your toes wet are you jumping in ?

 

[beast775]

Just do it!

 

[spinningmagnets]

The RadRover on Indigogo is from an endless-sphere member. He owns a real bike shop, and the numbers add up. The early bird special is a rear geared hub 750W / 48V fatbike, aluminum frame for $999....good for a few more days? The price goes to $1500 on May 15.

The specs are real, he provides miles of range capability with pedaling and with NO pedaling, from a lithium 11-Ah pack.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/radrover-electric-fat-bike

 

[Minister]

The RAD would be a fantastic buy at only 999. You couldn't build it yourself for that amount!
I wish them the best in producing this bike.

 

[wesnewell]

Both of my bikes were uder $999. Both will outperform the RAD by a long shot. You can almost always diy cheaper using common parts.

 

[teslanv]

Mikebikerad is the ES member that is selling the RadRover.

He invented the Golf board and an electric motor-powered paddle board, called the Electrafin.
http://www.golfboard.com/
http://www.currentdrives.com/

If there are any ES members with the skill and savvy to pull it off, Mike is one of them.

I test rode the RadRover, and it's a good bike. Well worth the $999 asking price.

[youtube]OPaQx_BBuWE[/youtube]

 

[riba2233]

Bike is great, but one remark. There is no way that that Samsung 29E battery is going to put out 11.6 Ah. That is nominal for those cells, but not so realistic :lol: EM3EV declares it as 11 Ah and that is closer to truth.

 

[LockH]

Phoenix Ebike Promotions (Moi) Subscribed (to this thread).
ONLY on ES to sit at the feet/learn from the many Masters of Ebikery here (aka Gawds of the Ebike, mostly living). I was supposed to be a warrior (later generations, mostly men "military"), am fed up with the sad state of urban transportation in the world. So in the fight against the 20th-century horseless carriage/"SUV"/"car"/etc... for personal use in urban spaces, the EU "EPAC" (Electric Pedal-Assisted `Cycle), the "Power-Assisted Bicycle", etc is my choice of weapons. Small(er) light weight vehicles (see energy required to accelerate mass). Have theory that folks might like getting around towns faster than bumper-to-bumper traffic, and for waaay less $$$. (Warmth/exercise built in as option a la Victorian/Edwardian antique Poop-Mobile pedal-only bicycle and tricycle.) The trick maybe is how to convert fab/funky design ideas here into high volume/mass marketed machines w/designer/inventors retiring in comfy style at an earlyish age? Not EVerybuddy is "DIY Capable".
CYa
L

 

[Jasonv8z]

The ebike crowdfunding is a direct result of the mass produced parts coming from China. Development and tooling has already been paid for. The products are well proven and produced in large quantities to keep costs down to an acceptable level for most consumers. Unfortunately, these products are optimized for cost, and not performance.

I'd love to see a high-end, well engineered ebike system that had a 2-4x improvement in performance over what's available now, but development and price tag would likely cost more than what a kickstarter campaign could support. We'd be talking millions of dollars, with a final price tag in the thousands. Check out the price tag on a Bosch mid drive bike, and keep in mind they're not using any exotic materials or cutting edge motor designs.

Now that ebikes are gaining in popularity, I can see small kickstarter campaigns popping up here and there. Maybe, a better battery and charger, controller, display or phone app. The motor would carry huge development costs though, and that is where the most could be gained.

 

[LockH]

"Performance". So... "Safety"? (Closely followed by "Reliability"?) I'll suggest "Speed" to be far down on the list, if at all. Unfortunately, seems "Cheap" is near and dear to many hearts, though "Maintenance" ain't on the list either. I'll suggest maint. is an important part of "performance"/"safety". At least in my experience with machines (which pretty much ALL wear and break down eventually).

 

[999zip999]

LockH you forgot. How many times do I have to charge it. Doesn't it have regen ?
Just a small part of the education. Oh the education.

 

[SHiFT]

am fed up with the sad state of urban transportation in the world. So in the fight against the 20th-century horseless carriage/"SUV"/"car"/etc... for personal use in urban spaces

This. Cars and bikes, are century-old technology. Why isn't there something better yet? This is what I want to build - even if only for myself.

 

[LockH]

LockH you forgot. How many times do I have to charge it. Doesn't it have regen ?
Just a small part of the education. Oh the education.

Oh. Good points. In the daze of lead acid, said to myself "Charge early and charge often".
... and I lust after "regen". Without it, best I could do was use gravity (DOWN hills), and anticipate stops/slowing down to use the caliper brakes as little as possible. Kick/pedal to start, and press the little GO button (re "power assist") gently. "Burned out" lots of little 12V 10Ah batts to learn "watts what".

 

[LockH]

Cars and bikes, are century-old technology.

... and turns out, so's electric traction. See ES thread "Horses of Iron". But burning fossil remains, blowing off poisonous exhaust gases in yer neighboors faces won out in the 20th.century. (Sorry. Don't get me "started".)

Seems like we got our very own "KickStarter" right here on ES... if we could just agree on "stuff". Hehe... Seems like ES started out as "DIY" folks. So. Wanna kick start thread "ES Bettery-Electric 'Cycle" or something?