WOW..I got 10+ 18V li-ion emoli pack FOR FREE... again..

[Doctorbass]

again :lol: ...

sorry for you guys.. but you really should try to contact your service center of ANY wireless tools!.. thay need to pay to recyle them... so just suggest them to do it for free!!


I just searched the phone number of my local dewalt service center(i did'nt remember..) and i found in the tool service center list the makita service center! so i called them to know if they have some used defect pack... AND YESS!! they have like 40+...

I goes to that place and after discussing to the guy for few minutes, they agree to give me 3 units only.. so i deceided to show to the man what i do with those.he tried my ebike! And he was impressed by the amazing acceleration!

After that he better understod what i need and he goes to the backstore and comeback with 17 more pack!!!.. I toke only 13 of them cause my rear bag was only able to take those.

He said that i should comeback soon.... to get alot more! 8)

And gaved me a used charger!

he also said that generally, they fail because of the first cell that die.. so the rest should be ok!

I know their discharge rate is only 20A max.. but i will stack many in parallel to add some more pack and range!....

just try that!

And no.. this time i did'nt sleep with a sexy girl to have them.... :wink:


The guys said they eill have alot more for me!!!

 

[xyster]

And no.. this time i did'nt sleep with a sexy girl to have them.... :wink:

But I notice you don't deny involvement in a powertool theft ring. :wink:

 

[BiGH]

wowowowow


after my bike is back on the road i'm going to do the same - might have to drive the bike near there in the car though but top stuff!!!

 

[vanilla ice]

This is the only way I'll ever get these kind of cells...

 

[Jozzer]

All he did was deny that she was SEXY! I reckon this time he slept with the ugly old foreman

 

[xyster]

All he did was deny that she was SEXY! I reckon this time he slept with the ugly old foreman

Must be something like that. Call me a cynic, but two top-quality, mass-quantity free lithium battery gold strikes from commercial service centers is not believable. Others here have tried it and failed. I can't believe both these service centers, or whatever they are, don't have policies to return the product to wherever the product was manufactured for salvage.

 

[flip_normal]

Maybe the Makita service guy thought he might get his flux capacitor working and go back and do him over before he even knew obout it. Notice he's already tagged the charger, maybe he is in with a powertool theft ring and dosen't want his charger mixed up the other's booty. :?

Either way keep posting the excelent test results DB.

 

[Doctorbass]

All he did was deny that she was SEXY! I reckon this time he slept with the ugly old foreman

Must be something like that. Call me a cynic, but two top-quality, mass-quantity free lithium battery gold strikes from commercial service centers is not believable. Others here have tried it and failed. I can't believe both these service centers, or whatever they are, don't have policies to return the product to wherever the product was manufactured for salvage.

OK.. Let me explain:

There is nothing to have with " theft " I dont encourage that and was too many times victim of theft about bike and stereo.. And i already put some 32kV from flyback transformer of a TV on older bike i had to protec them.. I hate theft!


About the service center:
First, i needed to make those people (at these service center confident about me) and proove them that i'm serious and have good intentions.

I explained to those crystal clear what i wanted to do with these battery.
And promissed that when i will need to dump those, i will send those at a recycling place (one of those here is called "Batterie Expert") that is a specialisez store about solar and battery furniture) I ensured that it's totally free for me to give them used battery to recycling too.

About Dewalt:
The first 2 USED battery i got from the service center were not totally free... i paid those 10$ each to encurage their employe party activity.
for the rest they was free.
At the dewalt, its rare that i get some. let's say about 3 per month.. they have no really trouble with these cells from now and they have less custommer that have problem with these 36V pack.
Yes, they have a policies to return.. but they need to pay to send those. and for Dewalt, they pai each time (every two weeks) to recycle them.
By taking some, i make those saving money... that's a kind of equilibrium..


For my new "partener" Makita:

The guys said that they already pre-paid the recycling service for each years. But, the guy was impresed by my idea and accepted to give me some each time i visite them. For sure, they receive alot more li-ion pack that are deffective... and it's always for the same reason: the first cell is near 0 volt!!.. i measured one yesterday.. and i confirm that!.
I just wonder if it could be dur to the back EMF or HF current return dur to the PWM and that HV would comeback to the negative wire that is the one connected to the first cell... maybe that HF is a stress for that cell... and the others have not problem dur to the complete absorption of the first one... that's make send to me because it HAVE NO BALANCER INSIDE THIS 18V LI-ION PACK !! onl;y a temp thermocouple and LVC circuit.... a small 1.5" x 1.3" pc board with a 32 pin SOIC IC ... no mosfet on the pack.. they should be on the drill and other tools...

I agree that' may be difficult to believe since you does'nt succeded when trying to get some. By my side they accept both time to help my in my project (one for free and the other for ... nearly free...(20$).

These guys are great and seems to be glad to contribute to my project.
(I explained those i would like to cumulate enough cells to get enough range to traved from Quebec city to "La Pocatière".. a small city on the south east of the Fleuve St-laurent where i studied in physics. It's at 156km and that is a place where i have many great souvenirs about friends and high tech labs of the college)

Keep your courage and you will certainly find a place where thet accept to guve you some.... maybe Bosh, hitachi service center..etc


Doc

 

[erdurbin]

Just got 6 28 volt milwaukee limn from a couple local centers. I did have to pay $5 a piece though. He told me that is what he got for them and couldn't give them to me for free. Still pretty good though.

 

[Eric G]

That's really COOL... Way to go guys...
I gotta give that a try and with any luck I'll be able to upgrade the ol' SLA's.

Eric

 

[mvadventure]

OK, good deal, now take full advantage of your windfall and opportunity and build a spare pack, sell it to get a trailer, load your stuff and LOTS of batteries in your trailer so your have mega range and you will be able to leave Canada and go someplace hospitable. If you do this quickly you won't freeze to death cause I think Canada only has a hour or so of daylight after October 15th when the ice roads open.

I think. Maybe I read that in a book somewhere. Could be sooner. Coulda been the Discovery channel.

Mike

 

[erdurbin]

Ok, guys call me a copycat or what, but I went ahead and called around some more. Surely in this town there are more than 6 of those batteries. I found the motherload of 45 of these babies right down the road. I just picked them up and they are the 28 volt LiMn Milwaukee. First pack I took apart was trash. Every cell inside had a brown tint to it, and one battery (out of the 7 cells) looked like it had leaked out the side. Every cell tested 0V. It was fun taking apart anyway. Surely out of 45 batteries, I can come up with enough good cells to make a 36v pack.

I am looking at this charger when I get the pack built.
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2635

...and this BMS
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3558

Anybody see a problem with this? I have tried to read all I can about using these batteries and I think I will be ok.

 

[TylerDurden]

Copy-ON!!

Dig and you will find gold.

 

[erdurbin]

OK, what is the lowest voltage these cells can get before they are unusable?
I found plenty of cells sitting at 3.5 volts, but a majority are around 2.8. Is that too low, or will they recharge back to 3.5?

Thanks

 

[NickF23]

OK, what is the lowest voltage these cells can get before they are unusable?
I found plenty of cells sitting at 3.5 volts, but a majority are around 2.8. Is that too low, or will they recharge back to 3.5?

Thanks

My understanding is that unlike typical lithium cobalt (most li-ions), lithium maganese are not automatically destroyed/rendered unsafe by low voltages. Thats not to say they'll work though

worth being a little bit careful with eye protection (even sunny's are better than nothing) when charging old/damaged/ unknown batteries esp cylindrical metal cases. Quite a shock sometimes when one goes bang

 

[xyster]

OK, what is the lowest voltage these cells can get before they are unusable?
I found plenty of cells sitting at 3.5 volts, but a majority are around 2.8. Is that too low, or will they recharge back to 3.5?

Thanks

According to our friends over at rcgroups.com, the emoli lithium manganese cells bounce back from 1.0 volts fine, but below that are often toast. The A123's are fine discharged to 0.0 volts - but of course in a pack there's a huge risk of cell reversal if discharged too far. Neither type is reported to survive polarity reversal.

 

[erdurbin]

Thanks guys. So far out of 12 packs, 3 full packs have been a total waste. Out of the other 9, I have only found 2 dead cells. All the others show above 2 volts, with the majority around 3-3.8 volts.

Now here is where I need some help. Would it be ok to use the balancer I posted earlier from batteryspace and charge a 36v pack. Or would it be better to get a single cell charger to get them all balanced in the first place (then use the 36v after the first discharge)?

If there is already some discussion on this please direct me. I looked around but only found where others were using the packs intact.

 

[vanilla ice]

I called my local Dewalt service center to ask if they would give me any bad packs and he says, "Sorry, we're not allowed to do that." So I think you're very lucky! He said they had to turn them in to a national Dewalt recycling thingy.

 

[Jozzer]

Mine said the same, though 36v tools arn't big in the UK yet. Then again, maybe I just havn't got Docs animal magnetism

 

[Doctorbass]

Whi dont you show to these people your ebike.. our that you could suggest them to try it? 8) ..

I'm sure that could help!


Every person(20-25) that tried my ebike comeback from their ride with a big !!! !!

That worked for the of guys of the Makita service center :wink:

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

I plan to get another batch of 18V makita battery and i plan to built a 1000Wh pack.

These cells are the same as shown here: http://shop.lindinger.at/product_info.php?cPath=1335_1345&products_id=65940

and have the caracteristics shown below:


I wonder at least how many parallel would you recommand if i have 200 of those?

10C 1500mAh...
50-60A controller...

How many parallel?
-5 cells (7.5Ah) 75A max safer using 1/3 =25A
-10cells(15Ah)? 150A max safer using 1/3 =50A
-15 cells(22.5Ah)? 225A max safer using 1/3 =75A


Doc

 

[fechter]

10 C discharge rate? wow.

Man, I need to find free batteries like you guys. I'm really getting tired of lead.

Who wants to send me a pile? Consider it 'research funding'.

 

[Doctorbass]

10 C discharge rate? wow.

Man, I need to find free batteries like you guys. I'm really getting tired of lead.

Who wants to send me a pile? Consider it 'research funding'.

Fechter,

Leave me the time i need to complete my next 1000Wh pack with those and if these good Makita guys would to give me some more, i will send those to you.

Remember, they are not brand new, but used or defect, so you will need to do some measurement to match those. About that, i will have 100 different capacity measurement (100 groupe of 2 cells to measure!)

Most of the time, i think it's spot welding problem. there are two spot weld on each cell tab and often i see only one attached and the other is broken, so the current increase and i suppose that their temp increase and damage the cell.

They are really 10C and 12C peak !!... F R E E !!!.... but have been used...

Doc.

 

[vanilla ice]

The place I called, the guy kind of gave me an attitude about it, like what the hell kind of question is this? Makes me not want to try other places. But I will. Its my only chance right now for any thing other than lead!

 

[Doctorbass]

I think i touch wood !

I just come from the Makita service center and the guys reconized me and he said:

-Hi Mr boosterbike!...

-8)

And he said:

-How many pack can you transport with you on your bike this time..

I said:

!!!!

eee... something like 15.. maybe 16.. but i have not enough place in my pocket and my lunchbox to place more... :lol:


Wow... I now have 16 pack (160 more cells) with like 80% of them fully fonctionnal... likle 128 good cells!!

I will be able to complete my 1kW li-ion!

Guys... I know i'm lucky, but i will try to share them with you next time, i promisse.


doc with 228 18650 10C cells 8)